Nevermet

IMG, I think I would define excommunication* in terms of being denounced by religious authorities, and as such, I don't think illumination prevents it for many religions or cults, save those that recognize illumination as a good thing, and whose leadership feels compelled to follow their own rules. Illumination would, however, prevent supernatural reprisals against a character who is excommunicated, which in most cases would probably either make them look even more terrifyingly wrong, or perhaps delegitimize the religious leader who ostracized them in some cases. * All this acknowledging that excommunicate, as a word, has a lot of Roman Catholic connotations that don't fit Glorantha well, but I realize that's tangential to your point.

Trying to unpack all this always risks the violation of Brooke's Law* stated above: "life is too short to parse the Entekosiad again". I spent a summer trying to wrap my head around the mythology of Spol. I made some headway, but... wow. * Surely, he has more than 1 law about Glorantha, but that's the one relevant here 😉

This gets weird with the Entekosiad*, where Derdromus (probably Monster Man) imprisons Turos (probably Lodril), and/or Turos unleashes Derdromus on the world. Of course, the Big E being what it is, it's still entirely possible Monster Man is Lodril in a skeleton costume. * Of course, everything gets odd with that

I don't have much to add, but I like the Red Moon / God-King parallels & tensions. Another layer of that comparison is that both try to replace something else of mythical / elemental significance: The Moon tries to take over the Middle Air, and Belintar kills the OOO.

Sweet

Do you know where I got that idea from? Cuz I have no idea now. 😵

Just wanted to say I'm loving this thread; sorry I don't have much to add

Another question this reminds me of: When and how was Arkat illuminated? I vaguely remember something about it maybe involving the Aldryami, but I have no idea, and I may be inventing that by accident.

Thanks for the responses! I still don't have a clue what is going to happen, but I have a lot more to chew on.

I had forgotten that thread - thanks

So, I'm not an expert on Ralios, and there's not a ton written about it in the publications I have. In another thread, I would love to get a handle on the 3rd Age history of Ralios, but in this thread, I'd like some help figuring out how the Hero Wars unfold there. My knowledge is mostly limited to the "Hero War Begins" sidebars in the Guide. The stated events are The Five Arkats, the Swarm, One God One King One Empire, and Hezel Darong far to the east. I can wrap my head at least a little around all of them except the Five Arkats. This is what The Guide says: My understanding is that when the Godlearners broke the Stygian Empire, they locked down the ability for Arkati to access Arkat via heroquesting. For the last sever centuries, various Arkati factions have been trying to break the GL firewalls, and during that time their doctrines and secret knowledges increasingly diverged from one another. Do I have all that right? Suddenly, all the firewalls drop, and people have access to 5 Arkats. Do the Arkats literally come to life again in and around Safelster, or are they visions of Arkat that may now be contacted? Are they "metaphorical" Arkats with the 5 Arkats being major heroes across Genertela? Something else? Finally, timing: Despite being listed first in the Guide, I could imagine the order is Swarm in 1622, Seshnela / Tanisor invades, and then sometime in the mid-late 1620s the Arkats emerge. Or dothe Arkats really emerge first?

Last post for Kaxtorplose for a while. While I like the idea of taking brutalism to be the expression of the more fantastical elements of Kaxtorplose, my current visual inspiration for Kaxtorplose in a more historical form is the bronze age Nuragic civilization, especially the ruins of Su Nuraxi:

It's interesting, because I think we can talk about the narrative tropes of the game world since the Dawn, and both we and the inhabitants of Glorantha can talk about the mythemes of GodTime. For example, I feel confident in saying that since time began, the world of Glorantha tends to associate universal ideals with imperial projects. Nysalor, the EWF, the Godlearners, the Lunars... As a setting, I think Glorantha has some concerns about the hubris of universal and imperial projects baked into it. Before time, I think a common narrative arc of various mythologies is a movement of the world from simplicity to complication (more peoples, more difference, more disagreements, etc). I feel confident in saying that's in Pelorian myth, Orlanthi myth, and Malkioni myth. Surviving the darkness required forging a new balance that acknowledge more difference than what could have existed in the Green or Golden Ages.

Regarding my time zone, I'm in GMT-6 (Alberta, Canada). I also wasn't as detailed as I should have been in the first post. I won't have time for a synchronous game for 3-4 weeks. PbP, I could do sooner. Thanks for pointing out Roll20.

Oh, that's absolutely a viable choice, I completely agree! I mean, I like Maniria. To like Maniria is to like the "Glorantha of the Gaps" 😉 And even after assimilation into other groups, there's a question of how much their mythology & magic continue to matter. I'd definitely argue that Heler is more important figure in Maniria than Heortland, for example. I would also love to know the role of Heler (or their devotees) in the events leading up to the sinking of Erenplose.

I love the (possibly comedic) adventure ideas that come from this.

A small PS - As far as I can tell, there is no distinct Helering civilization anywhere (or at least not in Maniria) at the Dawn. IMG, the Entruli absorbed the Helerings when Heler swore loyalty to Orlanth at Storm Mountain. That said, I really need to read some more Stafford Library to work out the mythology here.

And the cycle of chao- er, life, continues. I definitely agree that the Zaranistangi were a Wandering Tribe. They had teh Red Sword, lost it to the Seshnegi, and their king was eventually killed in 805. While the Godlearners thought they had killed all the Lopers, some managed to escape (GtG II: 429). Though none returned to Teshnos, it appears they may have joined a pre-existing group of Blues in souther Herilia (GtG I: 351), or perhaps founded that culture. In Blood over Gold, those Blue Moon worshippers survived the Flood. There is no mention in the Guide. One bubble I should burst: As written, Erenplose, also known as Porlufta, was a city of Entruli origins that angered the the Sea Gods, but saved by a Kolati. Given that the Guide explicitly talks about Aamor (P. 414), I would say this is future events: So, Aamor, rightful ruler of Dangim, has fled Sheshnela, and is currently looking for Brithos, hope they will ally with him against the Sheshnegi. Also, that post's chronology hurts my head, and I'm unsure why. I'll start with the last 3 paragraphs: Stolen by Vrimaki (Wind Children?) who were allied with Mostali (Diamond Mountain? Maybe) The Hykimi steal it from the Vrimaki Vealil's Wandering Tribe steals with from the Hykimi Vealil and his wandering tribe settle where they acquired the sword The Opening Occurs Vealil uses the sword to protect his land from "Slontonian Pirates" (No idea who this is... Wolf Pirates?) Aamor steals the sword from Vealil Aamor and his Teshni people get into a conflict in Ralios with Artmali, Tamali, & Jonati. [This 1 sentence could be a thread in itself, because it is incredibly unclear to me who these group are] Aamor loses to The Nagi who invade Teshnos Aamor leads a mass migration across Genertela Aamor resolves it, give Artmali the sword, and they now have a new homeland, assumedly in Ralios. That's.... trippy. Especially because we know the Red Sword is currently in the Kingdom of War in Fronela (GtG: 211) I... do not know how all that fits together.

Will read Jeff's post tonight. No doubt I will have thoughts and/or feelings 😉

First, could you tell me about the archaic texts? This isn't one of those passive aggressive "Citation please" things; I just don't remember what they are 🙂 Second, if I must give a serious opinion about Kaxtorplose & the zaranistangi, Kaxtorplose was probably a major opposing force to their raiding activity. There may be some mixing, though, a few turncoats or thralls that get absorbed into the population. At the same time, anything is possible, though I reserve the right to be an internet tough guy if you upset me. 😉 (I am, of course kidding. my 6 year old nieces can annihilate me) IIRC, the only mentions of the Blue Moon in the 3rd Age are some isolated villages in the Wenelian Isles. However, if there is another extant population of Blues with secrets, I'm going to say the Aulorings of Caratan. Their history is very undefined save that (1) much of their history dates back to fleeing Gualal after the flood, and (2) they worship the God of Floods, which sounds like the son of Rain (Heler) and Tides (Annilla) to me. Also, the idea that the Red Sword isn't just in Maniria, but in CARATAN is amusing to me.

Fight me. ( 😜)

I began to worry I was running out of Manirian rants, but looking at my to do list for future Scratchpads, that is not the case: Ramalia & the Mraloti Entru and Maniria Before the Dawn Caratan Handra The Trader Princes: Now vs. their height before the Opening The Caladrans Campaign & adventure hooks And... though I dread it.... the legacy of the Zaranistangi and the Blue Moon in Maniria

Awesome 🙂

Is anyone planning or recruiting any online games? While I have a decent amount of experience with the Heroquest / Questworld rules, I still haven't played RQG.

More on Second Age Kaxtorplose First, a timeline: It seems we can break Slontos' experience with the Middle Sea Alliance & Empire Second Age history into 4 phases: The Loper Wars with the Middle Sea Alliance (758-805) Early Archduchy (805 - 850) "Godlearner" Archduchy (850 - 935) Decline of the Archduchy (935 - 1050) Middle Sea Alliance Period I would argue Kaxtorplose was at its most influential during the Loper Wars, before Slontos was fully absorbed into the Middle Sea Empire. It was a long standing polity that was well defended. The Lopers may have attacked trade to and from Kaxtorplose, but I feel they would have preferred to attack cities that did not have divine walls. Early Archudchy Period Kaxtorplose, with its Ylream-like history, would not have gotten along with the various Godlearner sects. While bringing Slontos into the Middle Sea Empire and the eradication of the Lopers in Slontos coincides with the rise of the Emanationists, it seems that Slontos was primarily a playground for the Reconstructionists and Zistorites. The defeat of the Lopers comes just before the founding of the Zistorites, who also were instrumental in the attacks on the Esrolia & EEWF. Godlearner Period During this span, Slontos sees the Goddess Switch, the founding of the Trickster College, and the Book of Secrets was taken to Slontos rather than Seshnela. As I think about it more, Kaxtorplose was likely mined for arcana knowledge constantly, with any traditionalists who resisted such efforts bluntly removed, possibly while being accused of various heresies (Stygianism and Inflamerism come to mind as possibilities). There was likely a triumphalist attitude throughout this period, until the fall of Zistorela in 917. That would have been demoralizing for the dominant ideologies of Slontos. And then 20 years later, the Closing comes to Slontos. Decline of the Archduchy Its clear that things just get uglier and weirder for a century until Slontos sinks. Riots, rebellions, heresies... things are falling apart. IMG the Archduchy at this point is increasingly militaristic and brutal. I find it interesting that during this Period, the Archduke is viewed as the heir to the Emperor of Land and Sea. The rulers of Slontos did not experience regret the same way the rulers of Seshnela did. I also find it interesting that there are both riots by people who want the Book of Secrets to be used, and then evidence that the Book of Secrets is used. Also, regarding the story of the Book of Secrets in MSE, I suspect the Book of Secrets really did exist. However, a great deal of that story is allegorical, making the Book of Secrets a physical symbol of the hubris of the Godlearners. The story culminates with the Book being used to save Slontos, only to be revealed as "form without substance", leading to the Flood of Slontos and the Devastation of the Vent. Trying to use Godlearner sorcery after the Great Reversal of the planes was apparently a bad, bad idea. During this period, I suspect that Kaxtorplose became a hotbed of opposition to the religion of Malkioneranism. The city-Temple of Kaxtorplose, with its history and library, would have been a natural rallying point for non-Godlearner Malkioni religion. This post was mostly vanity, an excuse for me to construct the Slontan timeline. It helps me appreciate just how broken Godlearner ideology became, and Slontos paid for it dearly. But the Temple-City of Kaxtor, Earthson and Builder, managed to survive.