EricW

Hmm. Rigidly ritualistic doesn't seem much like "... for then mankind would have become as the Great Old Ones; free and wild and beyond good and evil, with laws and morals thrown aside ...", though to be fair maybe the ritual enabled those who embraced it to survive the "... holocaust of ecstasy and freedom ...". Perhaps most of them just keep their eyes closed during the interesting parts of religious services, have lots of group therapy sessions, and quietly dispose of the wizards who develop insanities which are un-conducive to community harmony. Do the GOO actually care what humans do with the sorcery they learn, so long as the sacrifices keep flowing their way? Nyarlathotep might occasionally take delight in taunting individual humans, or entire societies, and Cthulhu might be a bossy micromanaging b*stard, but most of the GOO seem way too impersonal to care what humans do with the power they share. Or maybe the humans in the cruel empire are all utterly insane. Old Castro in the Lovecraft CoC story was able to be civil, answer questions and give coherent descriptions of cult activities, but as an active and knowledgable participant in awful sacrifices and rituals he was probably totally insane in game terms.

Perhaps thousands of years have provided a way to live with the mind wrenching fear. They might be insane from our POV, as per the prophecy in CoC. But it would be a very short lived empire if say kids couldn’t grow up into viable adults, whatever that would mean in such an age. “…The time would be easy to know, for then mankind would have become as the Great Old Ones; free and wild and beyond good and evil, with laws and morals thrown aside and all men shouting and killing and revelling in joy. Then the liberated Old Ones would teach them new ways to shout and kill and revel and enjoy themselves, and all the earth would flame with a holocaust of ecstasy and freedom.…”

I always figured the Plateau of Leng was the horrible reality underpinning the myth of Shangri-La. Perhaps it is buried under ice, but will be revealed when global warming disturbs the balance, and the Great Old Ones begin stirring back to consciousness. As for the cruel empire, I doubt we fully understand it. The protagonist enjoys a long association with a resident of the empire in The Shadow Out of Time. I suspect people in the empire are not necessarily insane, the way people of our world go insane, more they have somehow made an accommodation with their horrible reality.

Could explain Yelmalio fighting himself…

Oh my, maybe the Hill of Gold like the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem, where different groups of Christians regularly battle with clubs and other weapons over physical control the church, to decide who will perform important services to honour the Prince of Peace.

Dorastor's chaotic leader Ralzakark claims to have been born in the Emprire of Light, but somehow survived Arkat's purge, until he was awakened in the second age (Dorastor - Land of Doom). I suspect there is a high chance any other powerful survivors of the Empire of Light would be similarly horrifying and perverse, and likely extremely dangerous - but very illuminated. So they wouldn't necessarily look dangerous.

I'm a fan of The Chronicles of Bael, about a Lhankor Mhy who gets in way over his head with a chaos plot, but the last update was 2019...

I'm wondering if it might be like a meeting of the Skeptics Society. I have fond memories of those meetings, the trivia contest which featured questions like "What did H*tler eat for Breakfast?", "How many grains of sand in this jar?" and "What sex was the first computer?". And there was always a speaker, sometimes a really famous speaker like James Randi, who explained what he had been doing to drive back ignorance and expose the lies of mystics and other deceivers. In a Gloranthan setting the speaker might be a learned guest sorcerer, explaining why theism is so ridiculous. Zabur would have a standing invitation to attend as honoured guest, but always turns it down. I figured out the first computer was female, but we lost that point because the rest of the team disagreed. I can't explain why in polite company ;-).

I suspect if Arkat died it was by choice, like choosing to spend all his time somewhere else, rather than an event he could not avoid. Someone as powerful as Arkat could have performed one of the immortality heroquests with ease, if he wanted to.

So is Hrestoli initiation interchangeable with riddler illumination, in terms of protecting you against the consequences of sorcerous wrong action? Does Hrestoli initiation provide protection against theist spirits of retribution?

I would argue there are very few rules Arkat didn't break...

Jeff gave a great description of the rightness rules caste sorcerers must follow. My question is, what impact does illumination have on these strictures? Are illuminates liberated from having to follow Malkioni rules, in the same way illuminates can break the rules of theist cults? Can an illuminated sorcerer commit wrong action without consequence, other than the possibility of being pursued by their society? Or do the benefits of illumination only provide the ability to break theist religious strictures?

When I studied Chemistry at university lab coats and protective gear were mandatory when messing with chemicals. Obviously a data scientist can usually get away with just wearing a T-shirt…

I think possibly the rewards come from the method rather than piety as such. Imagine an ancient Celt trying to describe a modern scientist. They would see special dress codes (lab coats, gloves, protective eyeware), respect for more senior people who carry large books, and inexplicable miracles. Would an observer from antiquity understand dedication to upholding the scientific method? Or would they see a strict dress code, holy books, deference to seniors and miracles, and conclude the miracles are made possible because of acts of piety, adherence to the strict dress code and reverence for seniors and their holy books? I strongly suspect the description of sorcerers in Glorantha is incomplete, maybe even a theist attempt to describe something which is beyond their understanding. All those strange rituals and dress codes and apparent acts of piety likely stem from a deeper logical method, just as the funny dress code and behaviour of our scientists comes from a shared dedication to building scientific knowledge based on testing theories with observations.

Lokamaydon’s secret wind god? Pelangio incarnated Yelmalio at least once, so their might have been an opportunity for the god child nobody talks about…

Its possible someone like Muriah could nurture and maintain a secret identity, some spotlessly reputable affluent citizen who is away a lot, who might attract the Duke's eye. She'd need some heavy duty magic to conceal her true identity from divination and other attempts to find her. Working secret vengeance seems a very Malia thing to do.

As an illuminate she already makes her own path, she wouldn’t have to worry about retribution or spiritual difficulties with Malia. Probably an infuriating loss of useful chaos features and inability to work with diseases for a while. But Arroins blood would have no power over her mind, and she can already pass as a non chaotic because of her illumination.

How about simply have the PCs fail, the giant laughs at them and swats them out of the hero quest. Nothing permanent just a little humiliation. That way they know they must be much better prepared for the next confrontation. Then you can run a whole buildup series of quests to achieve their goal.

Fighting Harrek to a standstill makes Argrath a god? I agree by the end Argrath was operating at a high level, but presumably at some point he at least transitioned through being a superhero, however briefly. Maybe he was “more god than man” after he learned the godlearner secret?

You're hard to please 🙂 - I think fighting Harrek to a standstill (KoS), summoning dragons to rip a god from the sky, finding a way to hack the LBQ to extract even greater rewards from the gods (the "deeper quest"), finding a way to Lunar Hell even the gods can't follow, having the gods follow his command during the final battle, and cutting open and defeating Wakboth after he has consumed most of the gods, has to got count as a few points in favour of recognising Argrath as a superhero...

Ah sorry, his mysterious new wind god...

I think Lokamaydon, someone who managed to appear simultaneously in all Orlanth temples, put Orlanth to sleep, broke the Orlanth initiation hero quest and almost resurrected Ragnaglar has to count as a super hero. Even the Lunar wind stop was not as widespread or destructive as the damage Lokamaydon did in his time.

They don't have to both choose the same option. One could choose the Lunar path, the other could stay true to Praxian traditions. Philosophical divergence vs family. "I won't report you to the secret police because you are my brother, but..."

They don't have to choose the same option. One could choose the Lunar path, the other could stay true to Praxian traditions. Philosophical divergence vs family. "I won't report you to the secret police because you are my brother, but..."

The glaciers move around them. Some of the alien technology, which ignorant humans mischaracterise as "magic", is still very much operational in such places. Remember some of the ruins were in use for 10s of millions of years before they fell into disuse.