EricW

There's an interview with Greg Stafford from 2005 which details under what circumstances a hero can provide rune magic. My reading, Greg seems to be suggesting a hero can only provide rune magic to worshippers when they retire to the other side. https://www.glorantha.com/docs/heroes-immortals/ I think this makes sense, otherwise Glorantha would be awash with demigods powered by worship from their communities - every village would have their living more than human immortal champion.

Treack Markhor, the renegade knowledge priest who founded the cult of Atyar the knowledge devourer

How about Blood of Orlanth? Brilliant three way struggle between EWF zealots, old ways rebels and God Learners trying to establish a beachhead into dragon myths. Add Orlanth’s secret vulnerability, a source of unspeakable power which if misused could change the balance of the world.

Suggesting there is only one Earth goddess is like suggesting their is only one air god, that Orlanth, Storm Bull and Humakt are all expressions of Umath. Ernalda has daughters who are likely chaotic (Dorasta), even undead (Ernalda's undead grotto). Granted there is a close connection, a progression. Perhaps daughter is an anthropomorphism, the different land goddesses could be what Ernalda would have been if she had travelled different paths, now frozen in time. But for whatever reason, there are differences between the Earth goddesses, in some cases as profound as the differences between the air gods. The God Learner Goddess Swap was attempted because the God Learners thought there was only one Earth Goddess. The Goddess Swap failed because they have were wrong.

My view insanity should if possible be worked into the game narrative, without getting too worried about strict definitions. For example if someone starts experiencing paranoia, don't tell them they are paranoid - instead, play the paranoia. All their senses should be warped by their illness. If they roll a spot hidden on one of their fellow party members, they should see some kind of hint that the person is a traitor - a scrap of coloured thread which suggests the other party member has had illicit contact with an adversary. "you suddenly remember that thread looks like the cloth of the jacket wicked henchman was wearing". If they try to denounce the other member, all good - but warn them other members of the party have been behaving strangely lately, perhaps more than one member of the party is under some kind of malign influence. It could be dangerous to speak openly - who to trust? If they become insanely obsessed with magic, tell them weaving Cthulhu magic doesn't seem to be upsetting them anymore. Tell them they have the impression their last insight somehow armoured them against further san loss. Don't make them roll san checks anymore. Naturally all their sanity is withering away behind the false calm of their obsession, but they don't need to know this. All sorts of wicked fun to be had.

I think your idea is on solid ground. There is an awesome description of an illuminated Humakti scorpion woman who became a true chaotic abomination in "Lords of Terror - The Cults of Dorastor"; Could have all sorts of fun with a scorpion man character. Is the former character sane(ish), like K'Rana, or are they insane, like the madmen out of Bird Box, utterly determined that the rest of the party should also be transformed? Even if they are sane (sort of), will they try to convince the party to accept them as they now are? Ask for help to heal their unfortunate chaotic transformation? Will PCs volunteer to go on a crazy dangerous heroquest to confront Bagog, and demand their friend back as they were before the rebirth?

My impression is EWF took themselves soooo seriously. Leading people in bizarre quests for fake fragments of draconic trickster wisdom, to fully harness the power of Eurmal in the service of the great dragon, is a game which would never have grown old - at least for the tricksters leading their fellow dragons into utter bewilderment. I can just picture solemn groups of draconic tricksters leading earnest seekers into utter stupidity. Count the boggles before you sleep, because the boggles ate the sheep.

From King of Sartar, p92 I guess its possible Eurmal was too busy laughing at his joke to bother being a presence in the EWF. But Rostand the Speaker may have been a trickster. Or at the very least, the victim of a trickster.

Where is Eurmal? I mean a draconic trickster would be truly strange, but he started the whole mess so he must be involved somewhere.

Is Invisible Orlanth a sorcerous Orlanth cult?

Obviously everyone is free to create their own interpretation. Some have suggested August Derleth reinterpreted Cthulhu in terms of Christian dualism, replacing HPL’s amoral horror with .good guys vs bad guys. OTOH why call it Cthulhu if you want to do something completely different? Why not invent your own pantheon of gods who represent human failings?

I get the impression the Great Old Ones and their acolytes don't care about human racial or social divisions, if anything their goal is to sweep aside divisions and bring humans together in one great holocaust of ecstatic self destruction. It surely simply wouldn't occur to them to leave any group of humans out of their plan because of something as absurdly insignificant as human skin color.

The Seven Mothers as warped Lightbringers makes a lot of sense IMO. What happens if a group of "Lightbringers" reach the the Halls of the Dead, then ask for the restoration of a chaos god? The result could well be an impossible contradiction, a chaos god (or goddess in this case) who wants to heal the world with chaos. This could also explain the failure at Castle Blue, and the waxing and waning of the moon. If a dead and shattered chaos goddess re-entered the living world via the same path Yelm took, she has to be part of the compromise. She can't simply be ejected as an unwelcome incursion of chaos.

Why does Ginna Jar have to be a person? Maybe we're overthinking it, perhaps Ginna Jar IS the clan wyter. A symbolic something associated with the Wyter placed on a seat. An invitation for the Wyter to make its presence known via mystical signs or whatever if it has anything to contribute to the meeting.

Clan shaman maybe? Someone in touch with spiritual matters who isn't part of the main hierarchies and serves simple needs of folk?

Let’s not forget the Lunars use magic to tamper with the weather, conducting a hero quest to defeat Valind every winter. One of the things Argarath does in King of Sartar from memory is defeat the Lunar attack on Winter, resulting in a far colder winter in Lunar territory.

I think if we think in terms of game play, we should probably keep "detect enemies" simple. If you cast "detect enemies", the spell detects enemies. I don't think it is necessary to nail the definition down too much, it detects people the players would reasonably identify as enemies, either now or later in the scenario - unless there is a good plot reason why they aren't enemies at the time the spell was cast, but became enemies later. Having said that I think there is a case for suggesting illuminates get a pass from "detect enemies" style spells. Orlanthi think illuminates are chaos, so if you allow Orlanthi to sense illuminates using "detect enemies", you've effectively given them a "detect illuminates" spell, which doesn't seem right at all.

He he, all that potential - but Eurmal is the embodiment of wasted potential 😉. Don't forget, as a Light Bringer Eurmal is adept at slipping through the clutches of chaos monsters who seek to snare his power.

I think Eurmal would be a good candidate for a troublesome outlaw God in the Lunar Empire. Eurmal supports thieving and outlawry, his shrines are usually well hidden, and he provides lots of useful magics for hunted outlaws who want to stay one step ahead of the law. In the empire Orlanth isn't strong enough to restrain Eurmal - so Eurmal is pretty much free to run amok.

Illumination specifically allows people to hold contradictory passions. For example an illuminated disease master healer, like the Gbaji worshippers who secretly spread plague then “cured” the plague they themselves had spread, could love Malia hate Chalana Arroy, and love Chalana Arroy hate Malia all at the same time. What does a lightbringer see when they cast “detect enemy” on an illuminated healer who is also a disease master?

You could play it that way, but my thinking is "detect enemy" just seems too simple a solution. How could illumination ever have presented a threat to Glorantha if a simple "detect enemy" spell can detect a dark side illuminate who wants to loot your cult for its powers? I mean the whole Gbaji thing would have been over in five minutes - "guys, you need to cast detect enemy on any prospective initiate". Take the following description of an illuminated Humakti who got transformed into a scorpion queen, from "The Cults of Dorastor": My point is, if a non illuminate casts "Detect Enemy" on an illuminate, how do they make sense of the answer? Rana believes she is a good Humakti, she doesn't think using her scorpion queen poison tail is an issue because its part of her. She also didn't have a problem with reconciling her faith in Humakt with her conversion to the "Lunar Way". She could probably use a scimitar without feeling bad about it, without letting it bother her - because she is an illuminate. No matter what outrages she perpetrates, she thinks she is doing the right thing, her intentions in her own mind are always good.

According to RQ3 "Lords of Terror", Divination cannot determine that an individual is illumined or has become an apostate. However "Dorastor Land of Doom" says Divination is effective on an illuminated individual, insofar as his actions affect the appropriate cult. So pick your sourcebook ;-). I think I have an answer to my question though, the general feeling is Lunars would not be using illuminates to infiltrate rebels, even during the troubled spy infested age described in "Orlanth is Dead", and the Lightbringer rebel groups would never be tempted to use illuminates to infiltrate the Lunars.

From "Orlanth is Dead": So definitely an environment with a lot of spies and intrigue, at least during some of the most desperate periods of the occupation. I accept saying Lunars are using illuminates to spy on Lightbringers is a stretch, it doesn't actually say the collaborators are using foul magics to conceal their treachery from Orlanth. And Lightbringers accepting help from people they suspect of being illuminates is a greater stretch. All I am saying is in such desperate times, it seems plausible that if a reliable long term source of vital intelligence about Lunar activities was available to rebel leadership, they might be tempted not to act on their personal suspicions that their source of information was an illuminate.

I wouldn't expect some hill tribe to mount a sophisticated infiltration effort. But cities and town under Lunar occupation would surely be absolutely seething with intrigue. Only the very clever and cautious would survive even the first few days of imperial infiltration efforts. There's a hilarious scene in the book "Bill, The Galactic Hero" in which thousands of rebels storm key buildings in the Imperial City - but as the rebels charge, their numbers rapidly dwindle, until the only person left is the leader of the movement. All the rebels except the leader were imperial spies, but there were so many imperial intelligence agencies running covert operations against the rebels, the agencies never realised the rebellion was a figment of their paranoia - all except its hapless leader.

Ah but these are desperate times. The Lunar Empire attacks the hero plane with chaos even while it conquers the mundane world using every tool at its disposal, fair or foul. There is even a plot to kill Orlanth, a plot which is perilously close to success. Arkat repeatedly betrayed his gods and broke his oaths to those gods in his single minded pursuit of Gbaji. Are you guys seriously saying the temptation to use the dark side to serve good never occurred to anyone? You might never fully trust your illuminated spy, but if they provide desperately needed high quality intelligence and faithful service, would you really be in that much of a rush to kill them? This is the slippery slope of illumination - the end justifies the means, if that end is worthy enough.