Akhôrahil

Same here. To me, it's what decides who will be a meat eater, so it doesn't matter if tapirs aren't naturally carnivorous. My jaw dropped the first time I heard about this change. I do like the palanquins, though, and they don't seem like they would be adept riders.

Apparently clowns can get shit done, at least some of the time - Jojo the Bobo and the Clown Army drove the Mad Sultanate out of Lakrene when no-on else could (D:LoD).

And Thunderstone, maybe even moreso.

"This monster exists because I have a model that fits" is very Gygaxian. 🙂

Bottom mid 🙂

But in that case, what's even the point? Why does it look like it has a pumpkin for a head?

Find a hideout, then find a better hideout Struggle with your ability to worship (do you have the people and places? does your god still tolerate you?) Someone falls in love with a member of your rival bandit gang Find women (in a hopefully less than awful way) Recruit cannon fodder additional gang members Get yourself a wyter

In this one, you clearly need to track how many people (0 to 11) who agree with you, and you succeed at 11. Since he starts at 0, he only has one shot to "switch" one of the other jurors (but this roll succeeds). Each roll corresponds to either a vote count or someone changing his mind.

Let's work with this. It's often been noted that Orlanth Adventurous and Orlanth Thunderous seem like two different cults that have been incompletely banged into one. Perhaps Larnste is the father of OA (the Movement Rune is big with OA, after all) and Umath of OT (the more Storm-centric one)?

It's also questionable whether it would have been good for the movie if the fight had randomly gone the other way. But the video clip is even an example of the thing we're discussing here - it's not just a fight, it's a three-part conflict consisting of a talk, a stare-down, and then the physical fight, but RQ puts vastly more rules effort into the last part. In QuestWorlds, they would be given equal weight. (In RQG, what happens seems like an opposed roll of Orate vs. Honor, where both sides roll a success - the duel is still on, but Toshiro Mifune manages to get a concession that no-one else will be harmed. Then both sides try to Augment using Intimidate. Finally, there's a failed attack (or if you prefer, a successful dodge), and a successful (probably Special) attack against a failed (or barely attempted) defensive roll.)

The thing is that outside of combat (including Spirit Combat) and chases, the system tells you how to resolve tasks, but not how to resolve conflicts. This is very common in more traditional RPGs. Sometimes Social Combat is introduced to make up for it, but Social Combat has a tendency of feeling a bit weird when tacked on to a more trad system (while it's completely integrated as just another kind of conflict in a game like HeroQuest/QuestWorlds). How to do more with it? One way is to look at Skill Challenges from D&D, a system that can easily be adapted to RQ (essentially, you need a certain number of successes before a certain number of failures in order to succeed, from a certain set of skills, but you could just as well say that it's a certain number of rolls and the number of successes determine the quality of the outcome). But Skill Challenges come with their own set of issues - for one thing, it can lessen the drama and the impact when you spread out the rolls like this, while having a single Orate roll decide whether you can avoid feud really pushes the impact factor. It's probably most useful for extended (sometimes very extended) activities where it's not one single thing at one point in time that will result in ultimate success, like building a temple or ending a feud. The influence system mentioned by @Squaredeal Sten above is essentially a kind of Skill Challenge as well.

Hell Roar (the SoR of the ZZ cult) or Crushing Noise, or are those the same?

One crucial part is that they're outlaws for a reason, and whatever that reason is, someone is likely to try to come to collect now that they're outlaws and can be killed freely. I think it could be a great structure to start off with this kind of thing and mere survival, and then they get a chance to transform themselves into bandit-rebels after the Lunars arrive. Also seeing if they try to maintain some moral threshold - introducing Gagarthi (probably more successful and powerful than the PCs!) and presenting them beyond the moral event horizon could be good here - "are you truly no better than those guys?" It's always good to have an opposition who is worse than the PCs - when watching Sons of Anarchy I reflected on how outsider law-enforcement is universally morally appalling there, because the unpleasant people in the club still have to be maintained as preferable to the people who oppose them.

I guess a lot will depend on the tone chosen. Is this a harsh and nasty struggle for survival in the face of a hostile world, or a more heroic campaign with bandits with at least their own brand of honour and stylishness? You get very different campaigns from the Dalton gang, Robin Hood, and the Brotherhood Without Banners (GoT). "Social Banditry" is also interesting in how it connects even outlaws to a community: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_banditry Hobsbawm: "The point about social bandits is that they are peasant outlaws whom the lord and state regard as criminals, but who remain within peasant society, and are considered by their people as heroes, as champions, avengers, fighters for justice, perhaps even leaders of liberation, and in any case as men to be admired, helped and supported. This relation between the ordinary peasant and the rebel, outlaw and robber is what makes social banditry interesting and significant ... Social banditry of this kind is one of the most universal social phenomena known to history."

Thanks for the input and assist, everyone - at least I feel like I'm at approximately the right level here, and that the unclear parts are legitimate game-design decisions where one can reasonably go either way.

I agree there's a baseline Theyalan set of customs, but that's probably more that every Theyalan culture gets some thing like 1/2 to 1/5 to any other rather than them sharing the same Customs skill. I think you can probably find hospitality in any other Theyalan culture if you can at all speak the language (which you likely can, since again it's all fundamentally Theyalan - even if it just comes out as "Hospitality? Will behave. Will thank. No hurt."). I'm thinking most Theyalan customs will relate to each other at 1/2 or at worst 1/5, while subsections within a Custom might be 1/2 until you get acquainted with them or unless you have the Homeland Lore skill for them. But you probably only need to roll when you're at risk of embarrassing yourself, risk getting yourself hurt, or trying to pass as a native. Everyone knows that strangers (as opposed to foreigners) are weird but can become friends - that's a nice part of Orlanthi culture. Meanwhile, you're going to get treated like an unwashed barbarian if you fail your Customs (Lunar Provincial) roll, and worse (potentially far worse if you're in Alkoth) if you fail a Customs (Dara Happan) roll, and you won't even have the skill in the first place unless you managed to pick it up somewhere.

I think with Customs, it's important to allow fairly good "related" skills, so that you can use, say, Customs (Alakorings) at 1/2 (or at worst, 1/5) for Customs (Talastarings). With this kind of overlap, it becomes less crucial exactly where the lines are drawn, and it makes no sense (to me, at least) to say that these cultures that have very significant similarities would run under completely unrelated skills. I do this for Homeland Lores as well - unless there's a reason against it, you will be able to use one Homeland Lore towards a neighboring Homeland at 1/2 or 1/5 skill - your area knowledge doesn't stop dead at the border! Homeland Lores might even be used to tell customs of sub-areas apart - if, for instance, I run one single Customs (Alakorings) skill, Homeland Lore (Aggar) might be able to tell you about the particular Aggarite practices that certainly exist even if I have this wide Customs skill division.

Thanks for the comments and helping me think about this! Customs is tricky because we have so few data points. We get Sartar (which as you say should include at least traditionalist Heortland) as opposed to Esrolia, Lunar Provincial (unlike you, I do believe this is intentional, but it should only applied to the actually Lunarized populations, such as Aggarite lowlanders, but not traditionalists), individual Praxian tribes (Vishi Dunn has Customs (Praxian), but this is presumably an error). Sartar and Esrolia are geographically close but to an extent even culturally antagonistic, and I think different Customs make a lot of sense here - if you're a Sartarite going to Esrolia with no idea what to expect, there will be a culture shock. Does this happen between different Alakoringite Orlanthi? I'm not sure - in all likelihood less so, at least - my reading is that the differences would be larger than between Provincials from different provinces (where the Lunar Way has streamlined the cultures a bit), but less than between Sartar and Esrolia. Enough for different skills? That's what I'm trying to find out, here. I'm also trying to see if it helps to apply real-world reasoning - at what level would we apply a Customs skill if applying the RQG rules to the current world? Do I have a Customs (Swedish)? I don't think so - if I go to another Nordic culture, there won't be any culture shock. Not identical, to be sure, but the differences are minor. I think I would be able to use Customs (Swedish) at 9/10ths value in the other countries, and at this point individual skills don't seem productive (meanwhile, Language would be at 1/2 to Norwegian or Danish (and with some Danes, not even that), so in this case Customs would differ less than languages... although some linguists say Swedish/Danish/Norwegian is just one language in three dialects and only the accidents of history makes us pretend otherwise). Should there be a Custom (Nordics) instead? That could be a sensible design choice, but it's worth considering whether it should even be expanded to Customs (Germanics). When we get to Germany or Austria, the difference in culture increases to be sure, but perhaps not necessarily enough to require a new Customs area. I would not go above this though - Customs (EU) seems outright silly. Similarly, let's say we hack RQG for the late Roman Republic. It seems like a non-starter to have a separate Customs skill for each Germanic tribe (for gameplay reasons if nothing else!). I would be inclined to have Customs at the level "Customs (Gauls)", "Customs (Germans)" and so - it might be a simplification, but not grossly so, and seems like it would keep the skill list from simply exploding. By the way, it's great that both you and @jajagappa raised the issue of Sylila - even if one goes with a single Customs (Alakoringite), Sylila isn't quite part of it. And yes, Carmanians certainly get their own Customs skill - that was just outside what I was considering here (Carmania also likely gets four separate Homelands). Just wanted to comment here that RQG tends to list Customs by people or population, not area, so even under your construction, it should probably be "Customs (Carmanians)" and so on. But that doesn't matter for the general discussion. My thoughts: Lakrene: Ethnically Talastari, and some parts of Lakrene ceded just decades ago by King Hakon. Are they really more Sylilan than Talastari? I mean, maybe - Dara-Ni is a strong influence, after all. But if lumped into Customs (Sylilings), it would seem more geographical than cultural - it's not like they have much of anything in common with the Syliling population. Skanthi: It's so hard to tell whether to bunch the Skanthi in with the Aggarites or the Talastari, both culturally and linguistically. Yes, they were originally Penenthelli (i.e. Vingkotling), but in my interpretation, they were joined with Talastar by Lokamaydon, well over a thousand years ago, counting as one of the Talastari tribes ever since. On the third hand (thanks, Pocharngo!), they clearly retain close contacts with the Aggarite highlanders. Provinces: How big are the differences between Orlanthi in Holay/Imther/Vanch/Aggar? By the reasoning above, I could easily see using the same Customs (Germans) or Customs (Nordics) here. Basically, do you get any culture shock or make gross mistakes if you only know of one and go to another? Do you need the separate Custom to function properly in society? I don't think so, but I'm willing to be convinced. They were last unified under Orlanthland and the EWF, which certainly was long ago but less so than with the Talastari peoples, and unlike the separate (south) Heortlings, they were then not isolated from each other for hundreds of years. Displacement and refugees during the Lunar conquest or under Sheng Seleris might have further reduced the differences. Essentially, I'm leaning about equally towards one Orlanthi Provincial/Highland/Alakoringite cultural area and the breakdown you suggest for In-Gloranthan reasons, but kinda prefer wider Customs areas for gameplay reasons. Agree. S:KoH goes as far as identifying Tarshite with Sairdite: 'Also called “Hillspeech,” “North Mannish” or “Sairdite,” Tarshite is a group of Northern Theyalan dialects spoken in southern and western Peloria, Wintertop, and the Far Place.' This even seems to imply that Tarshite is a single language (with different dialects) shared by the Alakoringite Orlanthi. I can't imagine that non-Tarshites would say they speak "Tarshite" though, which is why I like "Hillspeech". The Guide supports this as well for the Provinces: "Various Theyalan dialects, varying with each region." Strong dialectical differences (like between Esrolian and Sartarite within the Heortling language) gets represented with a 1/2 modifier in RQG. So yes, this all makes sense to me, and is a good breakdown. I think it's an easier design to say that there is one "Hillspeech" language (your Provinical Langauges) but that differences in dialect mean that you can get a 1/2 modifier between them, depending. (If we go back to the Scandinavian languages, you get over the initial hurdles very quickly once you're subjected to the other ones, and university courses in one country often hand out literature in one of the other two (the Danes are the leaders in Archaeology, for instance), telling you "you'll get used to it" and expecting students to be able to read at essentially full proficiency after a week or so). Similarly, Anadiki/Lakrene/Skanthi/Brolian should count as Talastari dialects, although I would also be inclined to let Skanthi understand Aggarites at 1/2. I think I like "GM choice" here, letting any dialect penalty go away after spending some time with the new dialect. This is also a gameplay choice - language difficulties can be fun at first but soon wear out their welcome, so adjusting to a dialect helps out with that.

Sideways question - how come Brolia has a population of 100 000 in a notably harsh area, while much larger and presumably less harsh Anadiki has only half that (50 000)? Brolia is actually fairly densely populated (more so than regular Talastar which makes no sense to me!), but Anadiki very sparsely (Skanthiland isn't exactly famous for being fertile ground, but is considerably more densely populated than Anadiki). Did something disastrous happen there recently, or is there anything else holding back the population? It's hard to imagine the terrain could be worse than the notably awful Brolia, so it likely can't be that?

Agree, and unsure about the Sylilings as well. I'm not sure this is a good assumption - it's a couple of hundred years after Missionary contact (in the year 100), and at this point, the Talastarings would be pretty Theyalanized already. Yes (at least as far as northern Dragon Pass goes), but as an influence rather than a colonizing language - the Hillspeech/Alakoringite language is influenced by, among others, Talastaring, but has fundamentally Heortling roots. To an extent, but they would still maintain contact with the Heortling peoples of Peloria, like the neighboring Aggarites. Language drift is to be expected, though, but there's no isolation. I agree with all of this. I think the religious influence of Alakoring and what few fliers he could have brought with him far exceeded any linguistic one. I'm also curious about how much was brought back to Ralios - if it's been isolated from central Genertela since the time of Arkat, 1/10th language proficiency would seem generous, if anything. I have no idea what people in Charg speak - it could also be a Fronelan rather than a Talastaring offshoot. I mostly picture Charg as halfway between Brolia and Fronela, though, so it's probably somewhat related. But oh boy has it been isolated for a while now! I'm not sure that 3/4 or 2/3 is worth bothering with, ruleswise - at this point, it might be easier to just say that "they talk funny". This is also how I picture regular Talastaring to the somewhat more Heortling Skanthing (originally Heortling, but have been part of Talastar since the time of Lokamayadon). 1/2 for Talastaring to Brolian makes sense - even if it's not strictly another language (which it well might be), the dialect is bound to be really heavy up there.

This is a sidetrack, though - any thoughts on the northern Orlanthi Customs/Languages breakdown?

Perhaps in theory, but any troll that tries to apply the idea that all human cultures are the same will probably run into trouble, far more than if you apply the theory to all trolls (I think?). One way to handle this might be to have the Elder Race Lore for the general stuff and the specific Homeland for the particulars, but not applying Customs to them on top of that.

I'm looking at putting the northern Orlanthi of predominantly the hilly areas of Peloria into the RQG system of Languages, Customs and Homelands (for Homeland Lore), along with some of the surrounding peoples, and this is the sketch I have so far. Does anyone have any corrections, sanity checks or just other opinions? I'm not looking to be told that MGWV - I want to know if this contradicts canon, deutero-canonical/apocryphal sources, secret lore, traditional viewpoints, or just common sense. Homelands: I was struggling a bit with this at first, but fortunately the box in the Guide p. 294 turns out to make for a pretty neat list of homelands, at least as far as the Orlanthi peoples go, so it would mean separating Homelands by Lunar Province as well as Talastar/Skanthi/Lakrene/Anadiki/Brolia. On the immediate other side of the Rockwoods, Corolaland, Delela and Karia could be homelands (along with Halikiv, Ormsland and Telmoria). Languages: Talastaring, Hillspeech (or Alakoringite). I wonder if these should be broken up into mutually intelligible dialects, though, the way Heortling/Southern Theyalan gets broken into Sartarite and Esrolian with a x 1/2 language modifier? Tarshite and Aggarite might make sense as separate languages in this way - what would the other language breakouts be, if any? Is the language of Anadiki significantly enough different from "main" Talastaring to count as a separate language at 1/2 modifier? What do people speak in Brolia - some really heavy dialect/sublanguage of Talastaring? For Orlanthi languages in Ralios, might Vustrian (East Wilds), and Korionite (Vesmonstran) be reasonable? As far as I know, we're not given the names of those languages anywhere, and even the Guide says little except that they're Theyalan - my interpretation is that they function a bit like Talastaring, where there's an original non-Theyalan population in the First Age that is then heavily influenced by the Theyalan missionaries to the point hwere it's turned into a Theyalan language, but still retain enough of the original language to be quite distinct from other Theyalan languages. What are the reasonable language multipliers? Heortling = 1/5th Alakoringite, Hillspeech/Alakoringite = 1/5th Talastari, Heortling = 1/10th Talastari (possibly 1/5th, not sure?), the Ralian languages = 1/10th for the Central Genertelan Orlanthi languages? Customs: Talastarings, Alakoringites (technically I guess the Talastarings would be Alakoringites, but it should make sense from the context). Vustrians and Korioni over in Ralios? Or should cultures for Customs be more fine-grained than this? The rulebook does have Lunar Provincial as a single Custom though, so maybe these fairly large Customs areas make sense? Telmori should be a Custom here, as well. I'm never quite clear on how Customs and Elder Race Lores for the Elder Races interact - it seems like the skills are very closely related and heavily overlapping without quite being the same? Or does Elder Race Lore replace Customs for Elder Races? If it doesn't, should different areas for the same Elder Race have separate Customs (like Customs (Halikiv trolls) and Customs (Yolp Mountain trolls)?), or are they just less culturally diverse than humans to the point where this isn't necessary?

Actually, re: Arkat returning (this is dumb theory time again): The aspects are the ones we know of, but who get assigned which is culturally relativistic. So it’s not that one of them is the Liberator, but rather that they get tagged with different labels depending on who is at the receiving end. And then you need Identity Challenges to attempt to resolve it between them, and it’s a whole mess. ”Unhappy the land in need of Arkat.”

As are the four others. But unlike what they want you to believe, he’s The Destroyer, not The Liberator (the comic all but states this). Which explains a lot, actually.