Glorion

And I continue to wish you good luck in that enterprise. I think it's actually pretty logical really, but there are more important things than logic. (Speaking as somebody who, as you can see from other postings of mine on other subjects, thinks logic is pretty damn important.)

And dwarves. All the elder races except for the trolls want to wipe out all the other elder races. And the only reason the trolls don't is that elves are tasty and dwarves get you high. BTW, what Argrath did to Peloria is the ultimate proof that Greg's statements at several Cons back in the '90s that in fact, almost all Chaosium publications are propaganda from the Orlanthi POV, and in fact the Lunars are the good guys and the Orlanthi are the bad guys, is true. I think official Lunar doctrine is that when White Moon time comes, all those souls the Crimson Bat devoured will get disgorged again and live happy lives forever after, like everyone else, and that meanwhile they get to be part of the beautiful Bat. At least that's what my Natha priestess thinks. There'll be pie in the sky by and bye...

Be it noted that Argrath dropping the Moon on Peloria was the single most genocidal act in Gloranthan history since the sinking of Slontos etc., which may have killed as many or even more--or maybe not. Frankly, genocide is a common Glorantha practice, blessed by many gods as the proper thing to do with evil people, or for that matter people with evil leaders. Remember, unless someone is devoured by chaos the soul is still around, and likely to be reincarnated or go to the appropriate heaven or hell. So not such a bad thing really.

Yes indeed, and various posters here are doing their best to come up with internally consistent explanations for it. A worthy cause, I wish them all success. If canonical writings are not all internally consistent and downright perfect, I suspect that may not be the first time.

Actually, Chaosium has an even stronger reason than the video games make kids violent thing, of which I am doubtful too. The thing about rape, as opposed to murder and other bad stuff, is that it is something that is usually done by men to women (or men to men), rather than the other way around. So women gamers get very uncomfortable about fantasy games including rape fantasies, but not so much of other bad stuff. And Chaosium wants women to feel comfortable playing RQG.

Rape is chaotic because *Chaosium decided* to make rape chaotic, not for internal to Glorantha logical reasons. Logic has nothing to do with it. Whether the "video games make kids violent" argument is *objectively valid* if transferred to rape and fantasy games is also irrelevant. Chaosium is not taking any chances.

Rape is chaotic, whereas other horrible crimes are not chaotic, for a very simple reason. This is a game, in which various things that would be horrible crimes in the real world are something characters commit on a regular basis, are things that players have their pc's do. A lot of the players are male teenagers. If rape was in the category of being something that players running pc's could get away with, the results could be unfortunate, and not just because it would be embarrassing to Chaosium. Therefore, to hell with logical consistency or anything else, rape *needs* to be a chaotic crime in Glorantha, end of story. This is not a problem with cannibalism, not a problem among people liable to be playing RQG. Nor is it a problem with genocide, which few if any RQG players are ever likely to be able to commit. That torture is also pretty negatively regarded, and restricted to cults PC's are unlikely to ever play, likewise. Besides, TV characters, especially cops, use torture on a regular basis, so a torture prohibition in RQG would not be effective or useful.

Not at all. Indiscriminate slaughter has nothing at all Chaotic about it, it is simply a serious application of the Death rune. Read the histories. Genocide is a frequent event in Glorantha, which hardly anyone except the allies and ghosts of the victims blinks an eye at. Argrath's dropping the Moon on Peloria is merely one of the more extreme examples. Remember, all souls go to hell or heaven or get reincarnated, so death, including megadeath, is not such a big deal. Unless chaos is involved and souls are devoured...

The basic attitude of Sartarite Orlanthis as to how to deal with prisoners and really bad actors is that, if they can't pay ransom, they should not be enslaved, instead they should be killed. I am not sure that is much of an improvement. Be it noted that this is not just an attitude with respect to non-Sartarites. In the histories, it is not uncommon for one clan to exterminate another clan right down to the last man, woman and child. Or at least try to, often unsuccessfully.

As to Humakht, which I thought, wrongly, to be the usual spelling, that's because it was and is the preferred spelling of Ray Turney, one of the original authors of Runequest, whose gaming group I have been in for almost 30 years now, my how time flies. It's used in "Fire and Sword," his version of RQ, better known as "Rayquest." It's available on the Net, but with his permission we switched to RQG last year, with me as GM now.

I think you just agreed with me Jeff?

I've seen the spelling with the kh in various sources. Yes, Humakht is Illuminated, says so directly in the Glorantha Sourcebook. So is Uleria. As for Storm Bulls and broos, in the battle of Moonbroth Storm Bulls were fighting side by side with broos vs. the Lunars. Every discussion of Moonbroth ever has mentioned the broo contingent. Unless you think the Storm Bulls stayed home? Humakt sees Undeath as the special enemy of death, not chaos, so hates undeath cults, including ZZ, even more than he hates chaos, as you yourself noted. That he is Illuminated certainly has a lot to do with that. When Arkat went over from Humakt to Kyger Litor that was just an annoyance. When he then went over to ZZ that was something else. I suspect some Humakti were on Nysalor's side in the final battle. No account of that that I've seen mentions any Humakhti involvement in the final Arkat/Nysalor showdown. As for the Second Council, Illumination is Illumination, there is no difference between different sorts of Illlumination, as the Sourcebook explains. It's all in what you do with Illumination once you have it. It included many mutual cult enemies. If they were not all Illuminated this would not have worked.

Has everyone noticed that the account of how the ruins got smokin' is totally different in Smoking Ruins than in the Glorantha Sourcebook? If GS was right, that would knock the whole Smokings Ruins adventure .into a cocked hat. IMHO, the explanation is simple. The story in the Glorantha Sourcebook comes out of Lhankor Mhy researchers talking to trolls, so it's the troll version. The version in the Sourcebook, which makes trolls look vastly better than the true story in Smoking Ruins, is what the trolls prefer to believe, or at least to tell anyone who asks. The Dragonewts know better but rarely share their knowledge about things like this with .humans, and the Beastmen, not big on history, have a more accurate story in their tribal traditions, but that is just legends from ignorant Beastmen not to be taken seriously by real scholars.

This is somewhat more of a Glorantha than a Smoking Ruins edit question, but has everyone noticed that the account of how the ruins got smokin' is totally different in Smoking Ruins than in the Glorantha Sourcebook? If GS was right, that would knock the whole run into a cocked hat. IMHO, the explanation is simple. The story in the Glorantha Sourcebook comes out of Lhankor Mhy researchers talking to trolls, so it's the troll version. The version in the Sourcebook, which makes trolls look vastly better than the true story in Smoking Ruins, is what the trolls prefer to believe, or at least to tell anyone who asks. The Dragonewts know better but are uninformative to humans, and the Beastmen, not big on history, have a more story in their tribal traditions, but that is just legends not to be taken seriously by real scholars.

IMHO that's wrong, the hostility there is actually much deeper than mutual Orlanth/Yelm hostility, and indeed even than Orlanth/Lunar hostility, as long as the Lunars in question don't have chaos features or something. Sometimes in sheer desperation someone can ally with extreme cult enemies, such as Praxian Storm Bulls hiring broos to fight Lunars, plan being to kill the broos if possible as soon as the immediate danger is over. So you can have a Humakhti and a Zorak Zorani in the same party if the plan is for the Humakhti to try to kill the Zorak Zorani as soon as the quest is won. The ZZ's would not necessarily feel the same way however. But there is one very simple way that they can be in the same party. Humakhti himself is Illuminated, so a really high level Humakhti could be Illuminated too. As for the Second Council, they were planning to raise the God of Illumination, so probably most of its leaders were Illuminated, and made their followers go along with things they hated. One reason why it broke up.

Looked through the whole thread, as I'm about to GM the Smoking Ruins scenario, and I'm surprised nobody noticed a problem that actually should affect the plot. Supposedly, the Smoking Ruins run's objective is to get Daravala something impressive for the Ernalda High Holy Day in Sea Season. Problem! Ernalda's High Holy Day *is not* in Sea Season! It's in Earth Season. Just a seasonal holy day, rather less to get excited about.

Well, if you don't mind double tithing at Sacred Time. And if your GM is on the ball, you should.

In my house campaign, Sorala (the quickstart non-sorcerous version) has joined Elmal, whose runes are very similar to Lhankor Mhy's. We're using the unofficial version that has been posted (see below). I'm wondering how different the official version will be? Also, the unofficial version lets Elmal have small and medium elementals, thereby making it a rather stronger cult than Yelmalio. Can anyone comment who has the text GOG perhaps as to what salamanders, if any, Elmalions can summon and control? http://www.backtobalazar.com/elmal-runequest-cult-write-up/

i.e., if it wants to cast Fear or Panic on one of our PC's, with no POW, how can it overcome the victim's POW?

This is a leetle late for me to be asking this, as I'm GM'ing this tomorrow. But there's a very odd rules question here. The Rattling Wind is undead, no POW, but has a bunch of very appropriate and useful to it rune spells. How does it cast them on my PC's? With its magic points?

Finally, after some unfortunate diversions to which I myself have contributed, we're *somewhat* back to the original subject I asked about. But only somewhat. A lot of stuff about the Big Rubble, no doubt a very interesting topic in itself. But I was asking about New Pavis and what's going on there, not about the Big Rubble, which, oddly enough, I find less interesting.

Rape is I think pretty rare, except among those who don't mind turning into broos. That is definitely *not* true for cannibalism, a major part of some cultures, notably the Old Tarshites, commonly seen as "good guys" unless you are a Lunar. Torture is quite common also, and there is no reason to expect that Sartarites would shrink back from torturing Lunar prisoners unless a Chalana Arroy is around to object. Human sacrifice is also fairly popular, though not among Sartarites. Primarily due to the fact that Ernaldans have human sacrifice rituals for "Year Kings," preferably Orlanthi.

At one of the RQ Cons in the '90s, Greg stated that King of Sartar was simply the Sartarite version of events a thousand years later, and he was planning to write a different one, equally valid, in which the Lunars win and Argrath loses. I do hope the Grand Campaign includes that possibility!

Is Gerendetho an aspect or a son of Lodril? Hey, this is Glorantha. Depends on who you ask, like Vinga. Aspect or daughter of Orlanth? Yes. It's nice to have simple questions with simple yes or not answers.