Lordabdul

Yep. Plus: I assume that in this kind of situation, the one claiming kinship and familial history with the place can also pull on some long held debts, oaths, and other obligations. So Raveena may be able to sway half of the local population by reminding that so and so's grandfathers pledged support "for 7 generations" to the Drenlon bloodline. Failing to uphold this may result in these grandfathers' spirits paying a visit to their oathbreaker grand-children... Or maybe Apple Lane was founded around a key magical item, and she knows where it is (her dad told her) and going to get it with a fancy ceremony and dangerous quest to prove her worth, or maybe she already has it... or whatever else. I think that Raveena isn't coming back with her claim without having such an ace in her sleeve because otherwise, father or no father, she wouldn't have any better chance at succeeding than any other random schmuck.

Given that Glorantha has many different species, some of them more or less alien than others (compared to a "human baseline"), I'm really wondering how to handle CHA rolls and communication skills in these cases. Sadly, I don't think there's any guidance in the rules, unless I missed something... would you apply -50% to communication skills then? Would a baboon trying to fast-talk his way into a fortified village get that kind of penalty? Would you reduce that penalty in Pavis or other cosmopolitan city? Yes they can, and in fact, for instance, the Humakt cult's write-up in Cults of Prax says this to lay membership requirements: Humakt welcomes all races as long as they are warriors and will swear to keep discipline and uphold the Humakt Code of fair play and honor. Few creatures of Chaos can maintain this discipline for any length of time, so there are few Broo, Scorpion Man, or Ogre members. I don't know if that will still be present in the upcoming Cults book but it's very probable. When you look into it seriously, there are really few species limitations to Rune Cults, so you can go as crazy as you want your Glorantha to be. It doesn't have to be hard for non-humans to initiate into any cult... it's your Glorantha, you can do whatever you want. That said, here are a few points: If a player wants to play a baboon fighter just because it gives higher STR, the problem may be with the player, not the rules or the setting. Some games have "checks and balances" to make sure things are "fair" (whatever that means) but RQ and Glorantha aren't that kind of game or setting. Have you ever seen these old totally smug and cheesy ads for RuneQuest from 80s gaming magazines? "RuneQuest is the fantasy roleplaying game for the discerning and mature gamer!" (or something of the sort) If the GM is tweaking the rules or the setting to prevent or make it hard for players to play non-humans because he assumes they're falling in the previous point, then the problem is may be with the GM. See above. Whether a baboon Orlanthi or Lankhor Mhy would face any kind of prejudice or discrimination is a conscious choice from the GM and player, if they want that to be a theme in the campaign or a character arc. But not everything has to be a half-assed allegory for racism... which, in the case of a baboon, could actually be, ahem, problematic. There are other reasons for non-humans to stick to their homelands and cults, and be very small minorities elsewhere. Look at the Beast-Men for instance: they have a complex history that can be used to explain why they stay in their valley. But there's always an odd centaur or fox-woman who will venture outside, and they don't have to face specism when they do (they might face surprise or awe or curiosity or whatever, however... and they may still face prejudice for other reasons, like the fox-woman being treated as any other trickster). There are other ways to explain minorities than "racism!", especially in a game setting where that may or may not be fun. Maybe the baboon doesn't join Lankhor Mhy per se, but joins a sub-cult of Grandfather Baboon, called The One Who Tells Stories Around The Banana Stand. The cult gives similar spells, but they have an oral tradition and the little writing they do is done with a stick on the sand. But the PC had to learn read/write because he needs to chase down some "forgotten tales" that were written down on scrolls when the hairless apes interviewed your ancestors 600 years ago, and that's why he's leaving the baboon lands and going to weird places. He may have to prove that TOWTSATBS is actually an aspect of Lankhor Mhy himself (or, rather, the reverse, obviously) in order to get access to the appropriate temples.... Or whatever! That's where the player can prove that they're not in it just for the STR bonus and the magnificent shiny butt, but to genuinely play a baboon and explore baboon stuff. Basically: instead of the non-human joining a human cult, make up an equivalent non-human cult!

Miniaturization is hard and costly! (but more seriously I haven't looked into the matter much, but it looks like the tip and overall balance are trickier to make...)

Ah yes, my apologies: I found appropriate sections in S:KoH that I had missed before. It is frankly the only book that gives enough details on the topic (this material will probably be in the upcoming Sartar Homeland book though). They seem to put bows, slings, javelins, and thrusting spears on the same level, being all common gear for skirmishers, with the last two also being common gear for the fyrd militia. The RQG character creation rules are a bit more lax, since a farmer can pick any cultural weapon, and can therefore be wielding an axe or sword. So anyway, the subset of fyrd militia and skirmishers who have javelins instead of short spears (or anything else) benefit from higher ranged weapon damage. Personal wealth is irrelevant since the clan equips these people, so I guess you'd find wealthier clans with larger numbers of javelin-equipped people, and poorer clans with either shittier javelins (lower some stats) or short spears. I would also have no issue if someone rules the javelin's price as a typo and made its base cost to be, say, 25L.

I am totally NOT advocating doing this, but IF someone wanted to do this: you treat it as a combination, just like Jeff said. So if the Communication Rune is now (or always was?) a combination of Movement and Harmony, take the lesser of the two Runes and that's your Communication Rune score. Or the average of the two, or whatever. And then you introduce the concept of dual-Rune spells, that is: spells that are cast on combination Runes. Ideally these are more powerful spells (more bang for the Rune buck) since they require a higher degree of alignment with a deity's Runes. And now, I'm going to close the browser and not think about the consequences of this crazy idea

Well I looked for "javelin" in the Guide and I didn't see anything. In RQG's character creation rules, the people who get proper Javelin skill training are only in the "professional warrior" occupation (p71)... (and only a third of the light infantry, and a sixth of the cavalry, use javelins... but that's for character creation, and I don't think it's meant to represent actual army composition). So that's why I was asking. I don't see any evidence that the militia formed by the general population (non thanes/carls) ever have javelins. The only hint is maybe the cultural +10% in Javelin but that's just general familiarity as far as I'm concerned.

Where do you see that cottar skirmishers have several javelins? Or any javelins for that matter? I can't find it... In fact, I wouldn't have expected cottar skirmishers to have javelins or even be trained in them. I thought they would just have a spear, axe, or sword, plus maybe a shield or helmet or such, and that's it. Checking on S:KoH, the only people mentioned to be trained in javelins are Mercenaries and Thanes.

Are there prices in the Guide that I have missed? Or are you just talking about the general statements in the Guide about the different classes being assigned to different infantry types?

The lack of mechanical difference between the shield materials is indeed perplexing, I'm not sure what the designers had in mind there (there's a thread about it), but as for the prices, if weapons and armour are anything like, I don't know, computers and cars and musical instruments and headphones and pretty much anything else, then in reality the prices will vary widely. Unless stated otherwise, I treat any RPG prices as some kind of "base" price and allow buying anything from 5 times less to 10 times more. Then I get creative with the shittier or better stats (less HP or damage/protection, CHA penalties/bonuses, etc.)

I'm on board! Thanks.

That's a great argument, and I'm almost convinced. The only thing that prevents me from being completely convinced is that... aren't big heroes like Arkat or Argrath especially multi-cult worshippers? Maybe that's how they do what they do.

...which sounds to me like the Dragonrise will never be fully "explained" officially, which is GREAT since different groups will be able to make it what they want... but I'm learning about a bunch of moving parts I didn't know about before, just by skimming this thread. Are these different moving parts and elements going to be written in, say, the Dragon Pass Campaign book? (a "here is what the PCs might know or learn about.... now come up with your own conclusions and gaming opportunities" kind of chapter) I'm asking because I'm a bit worried that even though the Dragonrise is obviously a SUPER BIG DEAL in Glorantha, it ends up being treated as a footnote in practice: something that happened just before you start playing, and then is forgotten as everybody goes adventuring and rallying troops for upcoming battles.

Different arguments have their own pros and cons but I think you're assigning intent where there is none. Any argument could be used for any reason. In reality, if I remember correctly, most of the perceived issues that triggered this whole sub-discussion was about world-building... that is: what does it mean for one's Glorantha if enchanters routinely use volunteers to pour POW into magical items? Do these volunteers get paid, and if so, how much? Does it mean anybody can get rich easily? What are societies' perceptions of such a practice? And so on... So AFAICT most people only wanted to navigate the maze of consequences, figuring out which path lead to gameable realities. FWIW I think that the argument of not "wasting POW that the Wyter needs" is good, but I'm not convinced that it has much weight on the scale of a clan. There would only be, what, a dozen people capable of doing enchantments in a clan? (Rune Level people who actually picked the Enchantment spells) And maybe only a handful that actually do make any item on a given season? I mean: unless they make it their business (which is possible, but the clan has more need for priests and warriors AFAICT), I'm not sure a given clan needs new magical items very often (for replacing lost/broken items previously given to thanes, as gifts for an upcoming important negotiation, as an item of power for an upcoming clan celebration, etc.) So even if these enchanters grab a total of a handful of people to get their POW any season, I don't think that impacts the overall clan wyter's worship economy much? Of course, if your Glorantha involves clans with dozens of enchanters with long backorders of magical items, the argument becomes a lot more potent, but then I'm getting curious: what are these enchanters up to? Do they belong to a clan that is known for its export in magical items? Or do all clans use magical item export as a revenue stream? What cool unique gaming opportunities could there be in such Gloranthas? LOL you can't write something like this without elaborating Thankfully, I found where it's from: Tales of the Reaching Moon #5. People without access to it can find a reprint of that material in Armies and Enemies of Dragon Pass (on the Jonstown Compendium).

Remember that most people in a clan would have a sword/axe/shield/etc provided by the clan -- they're not paying for it, and it's not theirs to sell.

Maybe you're getting tripped up by the use of the word "inn", but the Achaemenid Empire seems to have had inns all along that Royal Road you're mentioning -- it's just that these are more commonly called "caravanserai" or a bunch of other terms. It surely wouldn't be the first time Gloranthan texts use a "loaded" word that the designers later retire because it gives the wrong mental picture, but "caravanserai" also has some problematic connotations anyway, namely its ties to camel caravans specifically. So frankly "inn" is just as good a term as any IMHO. Caravanserais occasionally had multiple rooms including private rooms, from the little I've read about them, and many of them would end up in the middle of nowhere because they wanted to make sure there was one every day of travel from each other. I believe that this is how Apple Lane was founded (if I correctly remember something Jeff said about it around these parts), which (possibly retroactively much later than 1978) explains why a settlement with an Issaries shop, a brothel, and a generic temple, were setup where nobody lived before. Historically, it wasn't uncommon that a caravanserai would see a village or town grow from it. That's effectively what we're seeing with Apple Lane, and a great gaming opportunity for players to start small and grow in influence.

AFAIK there is no way to mask spell casting, but some spells have a mention in their description that they can be cast in secret (for example, "Lie"). Other spells, such as Charisma, have been the subject of endless debates about whether they're visible or invisible, including these forums... so you can look up and post in the relevant threads, like this one for instance, to avoid redundancy (IIRC: the designers said Charisma was visible in their Glorantha). Ultimately, it's up to you to decide how you want magic to look/feel/sound like in your Glorantha. Per RAW, and according to some things posted online by the designers, it looks to me like the intent is indeed for the vast majority of magic to be visible, and for it to be a natural part of daily life. I'm not sure about this one, I can't recall any official word from the designers. Personally, unless it's an explicitly invisible spell, the target would indeed know that something was cast on them. They wouldn't necessarily know what, though, and in the case of things like Befuddle, it doesn't help them to know since they're confused either way.

Ok so that doesn't change what I said, I think. Whether stickpickers line up or not, I was talking about social stigma on the enchanter. As in: the enchanter may upset the local priests, spirits, whatever. The stickpickers who could make some coins on the side might have been perfectly OK with it, but meanwhile the enchanter's shop may be torn down by angry spirits or Axe Sisters on a mission or whatever... Well, assuming this kind of action does indeed carry social stigma in your Glorantha. Again, I'm just spitting out possible ideas and everyone is free to accept or reject them for their own Glorantha. There's at least 3 or 4 ways to handle this now, in case your players want to start a magical item shop. I haven't looked closely but I'm not sure there's a problem here. Resurrection costs 3 RPs (which is a pretty high cost), has to be cast by a CA initiate on a case-by-case basis, there aren't that many CA healers around, and it's not always possible to bring the body back. CA temples are probably spending a lot of magical resources on more general healing (diseases, Chaos, etc.) so whatever's left is probably carefully allocated on people with a minimum reputation or someone vouching for them.

Makes sense! My players haven't travelled very far from their tula yet anyway but when they did, they indeed more often than not stayed at some generous stranger's place (especially while I was binge-watching Vikings ). The hospitality greeting would be done to make sure the guests don't abuse their welcome, but that agreement is only valid for the hosts' stead of course. The other times, my players would mostly make a camp of their own, especially when that's really the only choice because they're in the middle of nowhere. I have inadvertently found a great trick to limit my players' use of inns: say that there's only a big common room. At most, one or two private rooms (hosting 2 or 3 people each), but roll to determine randomly if they're occupied. Most of the time, they will be. My players really don't like the idea of sleeping with a bunch of other travellers in the common room. I suppose they're afraid they'll get their shit stolen. I forgot about the clan/tribe houses in tribal and kingdom centres, that's a good idea -- although applicable only in a grand total of a handful of towns and cities. I imagine that when players get higher on the social ladder, they would typically seek hospitality with a clan chieftain or Praxian tribe khan, and get some guest accommodations in the chieftain's residence or the khan's tents.

Well I'm asking because AFAICT in RQG's published books we have: The Tin Inn in Apple Lane, which features a duck trickster and his Beastmen friends. The Highwall Inn, which is... well, its own little adventure of its own. White Grap Inn and Ram's Head in Clearwine, which have some additional gameplay opportunities based on their patron NPCs. A couple of other inns (including two Geo's) which are just meant to justify PCs having a place to rest in a broader adventure (and therefore aren't supposed to feature in much more than one scene, if at all). So I'm not sure what you're going on about here, most of these inns give you at least a couple of hooks to make them feel unique. But I could definitely see a Jonstown Compendium book of inns, with more details fleshed out (a couple pages per inn at least), if you don't have time to prep one for your game or don't want to improvise. Yep that's what I meant (assuming you meant "from the more rural areas that surround them"). Most of the time during the day, the inhabitants of the hill fort/town/etc. will be out and about herding cattle and sheep, tending to fields, moving stuff back and forth, cutting trees, and so on. The patrol routes would probably be accordingly setup to keep an eye on all these people, or stay within a scream's hearing distance from them. So I imagine that if a group of 5 armed PCs manage to show up at a clan centre without being spotted and greeted by anybody, someone messed up ("your security is very lax, we could have stolen a dozen cows on our way here... are you hiring weapon-thanes? we can start right away") In many cases, the PCs would first encounter one of the cottars doing their usual activities, instead of a patrol. I don't imagine these random nobodies would do the hospitality stuff, they're busy and don't have authority in the clan. But these cottars will then notify the patrol next time they see them ("I saw these people from the Ernaldoring clan, I think, going that way... they had a Death Sword with them, so I didn't stop to chat, you know... they asked about Noraya Barefoot so I pointed the way to the Earth temple, they can't be much more than 20min ahead of you, and they were on foot"). The PCs would later hear these thanes hailing them as they catch up with them to do all the official greeting stuff. If the PCs are traveling with a known Issaries merchant who has a regular trade route going that way, it's possible nobody would care, and only the people at the tribal/clan centre would be concerned about making sure they intercept the convoy, for toll purposes mainly (I assume tolls are taken when people pass through forts and villages, or possibly some landmarks like a notable bridge?). I'm not sure they would do any formal hospitality greeting for a regular like this (the merchant may have an extended welcome granted seasons or years ago). But if that merchant didn't use to have this much protection, it may be notable enough that the clan's thanes will come and inquire about what's going on, if only to learn about possible new developments in the region ("yeah I had to hire these ugly mugs because the southern part of your lands have been pretty dangerous lately... I told your chieftain about his bandit problem but he doesn't seem to have done anything, I wonder what's up with that").

What makes you think that? IMG if you're walking into some other clan's tula, you get indeed greeted sooner or later by some patrol, and then the usual inquiries and hospitality bounds are established. But the PCs would state their business, where they're headed, and so on. In many cases, they would get escorted to wherever they're going... as such, if they show up at a town or village or whatever and they're by themselves, the locals won't quite be sure if you snuck past the patrols to do some mischief, or if their patrols aren't so good. In a more magically inclined Glorantha, I've been tempted to rule that the hospitality tradition makes you "visible" to the clan's wyter, who can then track (to some degree) your movements through its realm. This prevents having to allocate one NPC escort to the PCs' party every time, although that's usually good because the players often have questions for that NPCs while they hike/ride. So if you said to the patrolmen that you were going to the town, the guards there at the gate would already know of your coming from their wyter. And if you're seen elsewhere, some nearby thane might get a notification from the wyter that you're not totally honest and need a closer look or talking to. A simpler take would be that one of the thanes on patrol has some communication spell (Wind Words?) to notify the thane at the fort, and then the information spreads from thane to thane as necessary. Again, most people (village guards, patrols, etc.) would be aware of you before you show up, so you're already all good. But that's potentially more in an HQG game. In an RQG game, the economics of magic spells (especially Rune spells) make that less possible. In many cases, HQ's Glorantha is more magical than RQ's, at least IMHO. Lots of NPCs might not be "in the loop", however. PCs might get some inquisitive looks from people in an isolated hill stead, and these NPCs might tell the kids to get inside, and so on. Based on the locals' traditions, recent history with raids, or current adventure's narrative needs, they may react positively ("come, friends, we've got ale and roasted mutton! what brings you here?"), suspiciously ("can't talk, go see the thane over there"), or negatively (*runs away or hides*). NPCs in general might react more positively if the PCs are traveling along usual trails and roads. PCs seen and caught in the wilder parts of the land, hiking straight across hills, might be treated with lots of suspicion. Same thing for PCs showing up unannounced, unescorted, and unexpectedly at a hill fort, inn, or whatever else, at least in a Glorantha where the visitors get an escort, a monitoring wyter, or a network of magical communications (as mentioned above). In a Glorantha that has neither of these things, I would imagine that, really, every new NPC would have to re-do the whole hospitality challenge for their own land (stead family leader, inn keeper, fort guard, etc.) because they wouldn't have any way of knowing if you have already been vouched for.

I'll just add my +1 to the majority there. Here's what my NPCs tend to do as a rule of thumb, once they're done casting their own magic (which is generally just the first round... in some cases, they even cast magic and run into melee in the same round). Are there archers in the distance? Allocate a few NPCs to target them directly, either with their own ranged attacks, or by flanking them. Is there someone covered in Death Runes gesticulating or concentrating? Target that person as fast as possible, possibly by having one or two NPCs skip some of their magic casting. Corollary of previous point: it's useful in that case to have a couple dedicated casters who can cast magic on their buddies who are already running into melee. This buys their fighters a few SRs, or even an entire round, and they can get into melee before their enemies have managed to cast their own magic. Corollary of the corollary: is there someone who looks like magic support? (sorcerer manipulating a spell, Earth priestess casting spell from a distance on the Orlanthi warriors, shaman calling upon spirits, etc.). Then, same as archers: allocate a few NPCs to target them directly too. That's not "picking" on anybody. That's just playing NPCs like they're decently clever and experienced. In many cases, actually, my players come up with way better tactics than me -- I'm a terrible tactician. So I adopt their tactics on the next combat... which they still win because I don't even implement these ideas remotely as well as they do.

Ah ok thanks. I got mixed up because in RQG the spell Transform Self can only be cast on Wildday so it makes it weird for these cases (I don’t have the Bestiary or RBoM on hand to check the differences with the Telmori or new write up).

I agree but it wouldn’t be “coercion” if the enchanter is merely offering lots of money. Hence the other option of “corrupted POW”. Or, you know, just saying “you can’t do that”. But I dislike arbitrary GM fiat that isn’t backed up by at least some kind of in world reasoning, hence my suggesting such reasons. I’m open to other reasons....

So they don't need to spend any RPs? It just happens? Then replace "Telmori" with "any Hsunchen tribe" in my post.

Just to be clear, by "his eternal youth research or something", I meant : something that would only benefit the rich guy, and that is and will always completely be out of reach to the poor people donating blood. It wasn't a hypothetical scenario of "some rich guy invents eternal youth and then becomes a socialist who makes it available universally". I think it was obvious that I was talking about a selfish rich guy who only wants a one-off thing for himself. Back to Glorantha: the enchanted item is only for the buyer, and the poor people donating POW would never see any benefit except, maybe, that the PCs who bought the enchanted item may stick around and use the item to protect the local community from dangers... in which case, donating POW for the clan's enchanter would be considered a communal duty like worship and not pay much or at all either anyway. In fact, if it's all kept inside the clan, I doubt there's any money exchange at all. But hey, if you want people getting rich from donating POW, or lines of volunteers outside an enchanter's house, feel free to go crazy, I'll be curious to know where it leads. YGWV.