Shiningbrow

Your first argument seems to be either/or... Either you stick with Orlanth and the way they handle ancestors, or you go to Daka Fal... I'm looking for both as an option (because Daka Fal won't let Orlanthi (initiates) join. Your second argument is that Kolati is an ancestor worship/dealing cult... I don't get that impression. I don't think they get the same array of ancestor chatting spells that DF get... Summon Ancestor and related. As per @Joerg's response, I've not seen the idea of ancestors specifically becoming cult spirits, whilst retaining their former identify (within Orlanth). Or at least, if you summon an Orlanth cult spirit, you can't ask for a specific person. I know it's fiction, but the Seer in Vikings was clearly a shaman, and was an important part of the culture and community. He worshipped the gods. He also seemed to be fully aware of the ancestors. There are "shamans" around the world now that also pray to Jesus and the Christian god. (Although, usually, those outside the shaman's community may not accept it).

Sorry, it was a more generic "you" than personal (although, not entirely). I'm sure you're aware of the attitudes of many that have been expressed. There are some good ideas for HQ rewards as well, and not just in the HQ section. I hope the upcoming Chaosium version does (at least) as good a - or even better - job of this.

That's too bad. MRQI had the issues that gave it the bad reputation. But II was written by a couple of guys who care about the world and the system (the Design Mechanism and RQ6 guys). They've got a few pages dedicated to HQs... MRQI has a 25+ page chapter on HQs alone, including sample cult HQs. Even if you've totally hated them for what they did to the rest of RQ & Glorantha, that section alone is worth a look (until it eventually appears written up by Chaosium). As they say - something is better than nothing! (Of course, there are HQ rules on the net as well...)

I see this differently (as for, BTW, many past - and present?? - real world cultures). In such a culture as DP Orlanthi, certainly the gods are recognised as such. They are worshipped. But access to ancestor spirits still happens through some medium (almost going for the pun, but I'll leave it 😛 ). That medium is obviously a medium... Probably a well-done one with many years experience... aka a shaman. I see Orlanthi shamans as worshipping Orlanth as a God, but has the skills to travel to the spirit world and deal directly with the ancestors (and other spirits, primarily Air). And (perhaps most important for this discussion), honouring, respecting, even revering those ancestors, but not actually worshippin, per se. Priests deal with gods. Shamans talk to the spirits.

Awesome! I'd read it would be included, and perhaps associated... Still doesn't get where I was going though, because that's for Air spirits, not ancestors.

That last bit is actually not true. Mongoose (that which is not supposed to be named - but tough!) had quite a long write-up on it. Sure, a lot from God Learner perspective, and not a lot with regards specific myths (as examples). But clearly better than nothing, and certainly sufficient to get a GM to do them up! And, fully compatible with RQG.

I was going to quote that, but then... Meh. Besides, that's only for God Talker... Which is perhaps slightly better than Ernalda, which won't allow males at all at higher status.

Sorry - Babeester Gor: "Requirements: Standard. Only women can join."

I just checked the Bestiary... Karrg's Son sub-cult doesn't actually specify you have to be male! So... Both?

Just a thought - perhaps when following the KL/Korasting path, one of the first "gifts" received at successful shaman initiation is a gender change...

Why isn't he sleeping it off in a cave then?

But, the Associated Cult status (note the capital letters) is precisely what I (and the OP) was seeking and arguing for. Not merely an "acceptable place" in society, but actually allowing the shamans to also initiate into the other cults without the prejudice of "no shamans!" Hopefully, Kolati shamans will be allowed in as well.

Well, there have Kolati shamanism, so they don't seem to be against animism in general... (waiting for GaGoG, and hoping to see Associate cult status). But I'd think that clan/tribe/house(?) wyters may well be ancestors, so having a *stronger* ancestor worship & interaction (ie, shamanism) would make sense to me - someone who can specifically summon those ancestors to chat with and seek advice from... And all the other cool stuff Daka Fal initiates & shamans can do...

Depends on your goals in life

Being pedantic, but no. Outside the limits of the trance.

I disagree. How large a Dismiss Magic do you need for a Sword Trance with 10MPs? Just 1 for the Rune Spell? Or 12 for the Rune Spell plus the 10 MP? Dismiss Magic 3 "boosted" by 4 MP should still only Dismiss 3 RPs worth of magic, not 5... Any spell that has Extension on it... Shield 1 + Extension 4 = ? for dispelling purposes? So, yes, there is a conceptual distinction that should probably be clarified.

Apologies, and let me rephrase... I do definitely mean a shamanistic tradition of ancestor worship, such as that practised by Daka Fal. Not just the worship (and maybe a little bit of magic) of a single hero... But the ability to summon, chat with, have as a Spirit Guardian or teacher your great great great grandparents (who's barely mentioned, but had a bit of reverence and respect). Where going to talk with them (ie, Discorporation & Spirit Travel) is taught. So, Daka Fal without the angst... And with the Association of the the storm pantheon.

So.. is there a significant difference between Theyalan (as a culture) and Orlanthi? (Such that the former can't be used or n place of the latter) I sort of like @pheres idea, but surprised there isn't already an ancestor worship cult/variant already associated (or friendly) to Orlanth...

Perhaps the Stormbully doesn't want to join a cult of psycho, murderhobo fanatics....

Possibly... But it's not also unlike an axe. Very similar mechanics.

But that's only because of the rules. If the rules were different, it wouldn't be the case.

I'd like to know... Why? What's the justification for the differences between these specials? It seems pretty arbitrary to me.

Should be - just wasn't clear from the above posts that they were keeping that.

No. The Dismiss fails because of the Shield - so zero affect.

Hmmm, well, let me throw my 2 cents in.. Some have mentioned Nietzsche, and cultural etc. I think.... Illumination is the Ubermensch - realising that the only rules worth following are the ones you impose on yourself, because all other rules (morals, values, etc) come from others (individual or collective) - and thus are no more of value than of any others. Everything is relative - there are no absolutes. Good and bad are merely perspectives. Chaos is "bad" only from the perspective of wanting things to remain pretty much the same. The destruction of all things isn't inherently bad... Just as an asteroid wiping out all life on earth is "evil". There was talk of all this being an illusion... And yet, illusions are also real! There's an idea in (some circles of) Buddhism that if you see someone drowning, you let them do so because it's their Karma. I'd say, it's equally true that it's your Karma that placed you there at that precise time to make a decision.... And neither is right or wrong. They just *are*. "But people die!!!" Ummm, people die all the time.... There's absolutely nothing inherently "good" or "bad" about death. If there was, we'd all be hung up on the tens of billions of humans over the past few millions of years. (And maybe, of all life that has ever existed). We already have *decided* that some life is more important than others. That some events are more important than others. In 15 trillion years, how important will those (specific, individual) things be? In the end, chopping wood and carrying water is *just as* important as ruling a huge empire for 100 years.