Qizilbashwoman

Well, no It'd be that the underlying stories are the monomyth and we have to figure out how the story of De Iside et Osiride fits in and which deity is Orlanth

I'm assuming that was a typo or all of Glorantha is efffffffed But I'd missed that suggestion by you!

now that's just mean

@Joerg I liked your idea. I wanted to let you know, though, that I was just reading the new HQG Bestiary and it states that a tiny percentage of broo are born female. It also said Thed does not permit female worshippers, so most end up Mallia-worshippers automatically. I guess if you were being hand-raised by the Chaos goddess Seseine, such a broo might worship someone else. (There's no way a Mallia-worshipper would end up next to the Red Emperor, but a different Chaos cultist might be able to mask their worship.)

TIL (Sources I have say that is limited to the Praxian Sun Country, though. Do you know differently?)

Not if you fold and sew No, I mean Martial was 1st CE but by the Third Age of Glorantha maybe someone in the Lunar Empire has innovated because handing out tiny scrolls is terrible. Just sew small sheets of folded parchment along the middle - or even more cheaply, do it Maya-style! - for the rich traveler's flippable-codex. Scrolls on the road are... awkward. The Seven Mothers push literacy and must have some super-cheap way to make prayer items to read for the unwashed. Single sheet of papyrus. For the rich, a thin codex.

This is the best argument so far because Yelornan Unicorn Riders find their own mounts... Initiates (also Shield Maidens) don't have to be celibate, they just can't marry. But what's the point of having Yelornan cavalry if they can't train Kuschile archery?

technically this just means you lived... CONGRATULATIONS! not everybody lives. (this isn't sarcasm) i'm also a grognard, i've been playing D&D since 1983 (I was eight)

Do codices exist anywhere in Glorantha? I find it hard to believe the populist works of the Lunar Empire - the Entekosiad's many predecessors are said to be available in tremendous and cheap numbers for the use of travelers - are scrolls and not (poorly-made) sewn codices akin to a chapbook. They were first mentioned by Martial during the early Roman Empire so by the Third Age it's not unthinkable they might be in use for practical purposes - they probably were designed originally as notebooks and then the rich realised you could gift them as tiny stylish books of art and poetry that fit in a pocket. The Romans used to use wax notebooks that folded, but the wood frames tended to break and they were heavy. These are going to be for trashy and populist works, of course. The Seven Mothers cult might have a codex but "real" Lunar Way cultists are still using scrolls, and of course the Solar deities all have scrolls. (Orlanth doesn't read so I think we don't need to worry about the Storm Gods)

This is why I suggested the Glorantha Sourcebook, as it lays out the pantheon, with PICTURES, of the five elemental pantheons plus the Lunar one and explains them succinctly. You don't need it, I guess? I guess. But you'd really understand the world of Glorantha better if you understood who the Orlanthi are and who their enemies are (i.e. the Lunars and their subjugated Solar allies). And there's no reason not to read about the uz ("trolls", the Darkness people). This simplified monomyth pantheons is like six large gears that mesh together. It makes the hostility between Lunars and Orlanthi make theological sense.

Brown Sages, as they are called, will be interesting to see in the new Bagog, which is my formal submission for the eminently forgettable abbreviation for the whatever the new Gods of Glorantha book is abbreviated as (GoGoG or something). They used to have the usual sagely benefits of advanced literacy (beyond the urban advantages of the Seven Mothers and other Lunar Cults in New Pelorian, I mean, to read and identify Malkioni, Buserian, and Lhankor Mhy documents as basic training) and the like with stuff like Bedazzle Enemy God. Beastly. The other thing I'm interested in is what they do with the several Jakaleel traditions! That person, who might have been an uz, a human, a Kitori, or some other thing, has I think five or six official distinct magical traditions, four of which are shamanic (Before Dark, Red School of Masks, Young Elementals, Hell Witches) and one of which is sorcerous (Tetese's Spindle Hag Order). Before Dark is the indigenous one from before the Red Goddess and is Blue Moon uz stuff. Jakaleel's always been a mystery because she's portrayed as a large-tusked human and they also always show her sitting so she looks shorter. I don't know if that's Lunar Way marketing or what, and if so, was it to the uz or the humans? Were they trying to sell her as a human? I feel like they were and she was something else. Kitori seem far away, but I suppose they had a really long time to get to the Blue Moon. Maybe she was a really unusually talented enlo or unusually short uzko?

Yeah, feel free to just just use RQG. Although I have to say the Glorantha Sourcebook is 100% current, well-illustrated, and explains simply about the pantheons, so it's worth getting. Stuff like the Entekosiad is like trying a hit of weed for the first time and then someone giving you mescaline. It's not necessary. It's deeply, deeply difficult to understand, and it has little to do with the kind of games a newbie will play as it's about the esoteric secrets of the ancient past of Peloria (the far side of the Lunar Empire) discovered by a Lunar heroquester. You won't even recognise the main deities even if they are identified as a Mask of a current deity like Oria, Orogeria, and Lodril. Stick to RQG and really Glorantha Sourcebook and you'll have the basics of the pantheons as well as all you need to know to play in Sartar

Don't need to pay taxes on your fertility rune anymore if you move to Prax - Waha

Bisos isn't Storm Bull, he's the Tawari hsunchen god. He's quite the wrecker, though, so who knows? Maybe he's also got the anti-Chaos rune.

@jajagappa DO NOT SPEAK TO ME OR MY TEN SMALL SONS EVER AGAIN sorry i missed this opportunity to meme before

The only reason I was connecting her to Darkness was the Five Sisters Invoked, which starts with Addi - said to be a gift of Tree Mother - and passes through to Fire, who turns to Earth as Jeda BenBen's bells are smashed and Beseda (Oria) enters, then libations (mentioned elsewhere in the text: "Agraketa, the sacred basket, went around, and a council was convened at Beredenbos to discuss the emergency. The Five Gods came forth among the women, the staff and drum were passed, and the sweet and bitter waters drunk. At last the gods gave their advice."), and finally: I saw a progression here from Air > Fire > Earth > Water > Darkness As for Yar Gan, he's supposed to be the sorceror's god, a Malkioni thing. Vadeli, *shakes fist!. But I always view that with deep suspicion. Malkioni don't have gods, first of all, at least not in this era. And while I do know Westerners bred with merfolk, this still feels like something else than the Malkioni; it feels like Carmanian influence reading into "they were WITCHES with strange magic!" Yar Gan, after all, was slain by Bisos and turned into another god, much like Heler was transmuted into an Air-Water hybrid. I'm pretty sure sorcerers don't do that. I'd like to add that the fight between the two was the most hilariously anime moment, a really surreal thing to read in this book. Yar Gan standing there, staring at the bull men, confused, turning around to see Bisos' corpse rising back up and saying, "This is the end, the stars crash down," and getting chunked.

Ernalda is the Great Earth with Orlanth: they appear in Dara Happa as Erlanda and Erlandus, the Rebel Gods. I don't know if they are in the Entekosiad. There's a lot of Bad Gods and I'm not really sorting out who is who. I think Esrola and Oria are similar, as they are the mothers of the grains and the animals and the peoples. My Ul Eria idea is shot somewhat as Oria/Besed Eria is the wife of Lodril/Turos. Let's review before moving onto questions about Bad Gods Benbeng "Bell" Fire - still unsure, but a fire god. Placeholding Nav Eria from the Naverian creation myth, because she's explicitly a Sky god and a Painter. Alk "Green" Darkness - yep, she's still named Alk Beseda "Plenty" Earth - Oria, I'm fine with this, it's her name Addi "Stick" Air - yep Karanda "Striped" ... Water? - okay, the Virtuous One, but aren't they all? this Virtuous One is a mother. Could be Ul Eria, grandmother of Addi-Entekos, Water Wife; maybe the serpent is the one later slain by Orlanth that he's holding in every illustration and the goddess is Ernalda, the other Virtuous Wife of Yelm? HOKÉ Let's discuss bad gods. I don't know who basically any of them are. Are any of them, like, identifiable? Gata's first birth includes Kor Danaru Sor and his Salleri. Then there's Gan Estoro/Yar Gan. I'm really lost about these guys. I know who the explicitly Underworld gods are, but ... are any of these gods Tolat the Naughtymaker? (I think he might be Clashing Metal Scream and he's the Red God of War is Invented in the Second Error that caused the Great Darkness.) Yar Gan was eventually upcycled into a harvest deity, so he's likely a cranky Water deity who got ganked. Ka Charal is pretty obviously Aether Primolt. I've heard tell Bisos is about Chaos but I don't specifically see it. I'm really interested to hear what people say because I've thought very little about the Bad Gods.

Ernalda is Earth, though: really firmly Earth. If Ernalda shows up, she's the triple goddess that shows up, Voria-Ernalda-Esrola, who here is the daughter of Ul Eria, daughter of Gata (under several other names, but "primeval earth"). The daughter is Deneg Eria, the first child, who is identified with Voria. Ul Eria (as Eth Elsor)'s other children are the Aro Turru, the "Log Walkers", who might be the sons of Lodril? Sort of unclear.

I should add that in case you are curious, women wear money because it's theirs. In patriarchal societies their dowry is the only thing they own, and in more neutral societies it is theirs plus whatever they earn. You carry it! Gold bangles aren't just pretty. I bet a lot of cultures in Glorantha feature women wearing prominently coins, particularly Sun Domers (but not Yelornans), Dara Happans, and other places that are strikingly unequal (or were until recently). This rural highlands woman was photographed in her wedding dowry and someone realised her outfit was worth 4 million Nepali rupees (about US35K). Her income is classed as "poverty" as she's a mountain-dwelling woman with no running water.

The problem isn't AFAIK Nav Eria. Well, I mean, that's not the principle issue. Was Nav Eria appropriate? IDK, but by the time the text is around the author says explicitly the gods have changed in the Council from the Green Age. Nav Eria happened, Daxdarius happened. Addi is the shaman, as well. We're in an animist society and she must also be the Person rune as well as Air; she flies literally and figuratively. But the real issue that Air is Entekos and Karanda/Fa Elsor is ... well, when we fill in the blanks, she's Dendera. Her four sisters are Ariria, Provaria, Eth Eria, and Koveria, Gods Wall II-2-5 (Plentonius names them Ariria, Naveria, Lesilla and Koveria). Who is Gods Wall II-1? Dendera. I don't know who else she could be. Is there a different goddess who could have the title Dendera? "The Waters of Grandmother Fa Elsor" is discussed in the text, and her children are the Poral, "the image of their father", so Ursturdurm, Her husband, is the Poralister. Could Dendera "the Virtuous" be a title for Uleria? In the before time, the first mother. Kassa birthed herself as Ul Eria. It'd explain why she's blue... if she married the Poralister and is the Water Wife, the First Mother, who bore Deneg Eria and the Porals, maybe here we have Dendera as the title for a different goddess. I can see no other way around it. Addi is Air. Unless she's masking as the Water Wife, which... I mean, that happens in Solar Mythology, but it's awkward. Yelm's serpent is a water serpent? It's odd.

One of the things I saw in the Glorantha Sourcebook but is missing from a lot of illustrations is really fantastic premodern women's outfits. Traditional non-steppes Eurasian outfits - from Greek to Russia to China - featured very tall hats, amazingly elaborate cloth "girdles" (wide belts, Greek zone, hence English "zone") worn by adult women (i.e marriageable and older), and elaborate sleeves (long, short, hanging to the floor ("winged"), thin, wide, whatever). The modern Armenian Hemshin community still wears some traditional tat, although tall hats and the zone went out with the Young Turks and the '60s. (Pictures below. Love the baby with the corncob.) The Hemshin are an unusual Armenian community: they are Muslim, they were not part of the Genocide, because they were isolated and not recognised as Armenians by outsiders, and they maintain a rural mountainous lifestyle. They mostly grow tea. If you turn to the Sourcebook, Dendera the Good Wife is illustrated with an elaborate, horned hat in the Solar Pantheon illustration. It's a notable element. I'm not sure if it's supposed to be Pelandan, I can't remember how the Gods Wall classifies her clothing style. Anyway my point is I'd like to see some non-Celtic influence in there, because there's a world of clothing and armor from the Bronze Age.

Oh no, that's a statement refuting the opposite of what I said. Valare's heresy was that Entekos encompassed the Red Goddess, for which she got a sharp rap on the nose by Teelo. I'm saying the opposite: that she's a form of the Red Goddess, which is after all the basic theology of the Lunar Way. There are seven goddesses who preceded the Red Goddess and are her alternate... masks? Gerra, Lesilla, Natha, Rashorana, Ulurda, Verithurusa, and Zaytenera. As the Entokosiad comments at the end in What Valare Learned, "The Dendara Part of Rufelza, the Red Goddess, is Gerra, the Goddess of Suffering." Oh I just meant that it is messy as in "it is never going to be sorted out methodically", not "it is senseless and useless in piles". Benbeng "Bell" Fire Alk "Green" Darkness Beseda "Plenty" Earth Addi "Stick" Air Karanda "Striped" ... Water? Five Sisters Invoked is my main inspiration for Benbeng, the bell, the fire starter. Perhaps she was White Sun. Alk closes the ceremony, bringing in the darkness. I have no idea who else Karanda could be than Dendara, I'm stumped. Certainly she's the Water Bride. Maybe there were only four goddesses and they distinguished Entekos from the Water Bride Dendara because the White Sun hadn't yet been overthrown?

Hello, I did google a little around and didn't find much so I figured I'd actually make a post. I'm sorting through the Entekosiad, which is of course a mess and never can be truly sorted, but I wondered if anyone had a thought about the five Deneronae - the five ruling goddesses. The text says there are five, and there was speculation and input online about some of them. Benbeng "Bell" Alk "Green" Beseda "Plenty" Addi "Stick" Karanda "Striped" It's pretty clear that Addi is Entekos Dendara, Valare's beloved goddess, who is a form of Rufelza. (That's one of the points of the entire book.) Alk is Orogeria-Ulurda, as you like, still has that name. Beseda is likely Oria. The last two are questionable. I've seen speculation that Benbeng is Naveria, but that seems anachronistic? The text says Karanda is Fa Elsor, which is a mess. In Fa Elsor and the Serpent she is the "appropriately-aged woman for sex"; her four sisters Ariria, Provaria, Eth Eria, and Koveria come to confront Ursturburn, but Arirae is a child (the region of Arir, where people are naked and eat raw fish, likely isn't an accident), Provaria is a virgin, Eth Eria is already a mother, and Koveria is an old woman, so it's up to Fa Elsor to bang the snake. Gods Wall II-2-5. So Karanda Fa Elsor ... is Entekos (God's Wall II-1)... Any ideas? Also, anything else you want to discuss about this gnomic text?

except you can't herd in Pameltela except for that one milk gazelle...

Yes, gáviṣṭi /ɡɐ́.ʋiʂ.ʈi/ from gavíṣ “wishing for cows, desirous (in general), eager, fervent” +‎ -ti and gó “cow” +‎ √iṣ, “to endeavor to obtain, strive, seek”.