French Desperate WindChild

Pattern

and even if it is not "because" but an "illustration" 😉 gloranthan can be initiate in two ways : 1) because they prove their capacities (test, ..) 2) because their parents (or one of their) are already initiates I'm pretty sure that being initiate because dad or mom is not a proof of devotion (I don't say 100% are not devoted, just a part who is here for social reason ) and in my opinion, if you are not devoted, you must have loyalty temple in this case, as they accept you because you, not because the god welcome you -in all case the gid doesn't reject you, let the god a little part of the decision 😛 ) . That confirms the rules in some way

for sure, and that's a part of the profundity of the background but I think you don't understand my point the question is only " What are the world rules in glorantha from a irl perspective = not a gloranthan perspective" it is not "how did real people build this faboulous world" or more challenger "why did they change this and not that" i mean the game world is called Glorantha, not Earth, the gods are called Orlanth, Yelm, not irl names I always think about glorantha as a creation with its own "laws", of course a part of these laws are based or influenced by irl "laws". But a part are "forks" or even pure "creation" and who I am to say "this must be because irl I know it is like this" (well i don't know a lot irl ...) for example, I have no issue if bison has 5d6 in glorantha and should have 6d8 because irl "it is 6d8" I have no issue to see a duck or a baboon speaking human languages even if if I know that irl, morphology doesn't allow any structured words so yes i take the illustration "it works in glorantha like it works irl", but not the demonstration "it works in glorantha because it works irl". I "suffer" to read and write english for glorantha lore, not for earth ! 😛

i dont consider real word for this question with glorantha we have a chance... there are some people we can ask in our world and who are able to say what is the glorantha truth 🙂 (or to say "that is not cover by the background, do what you want, official books will never answer") In this post I m not the npc or the pc, I m myself, the one behind his computer but I agree , when I play a gloranthan worshipper, of course "Others are simply wrong." .

roll both if one succeed more (special versus normal, or normal versus failure) than other, this is the active passion if both succeed in the same level, player decides the active passion if both fail, there is no active passion yes under fear, you may want to destroy the source of your fear (at least "fanatism effect"), to stay unable to move, or to flee. however I play "fear passion in rqg" as the flee option by simplicity

this kind of sentence, which was what I understood before, is the source of my misunderstanding *. 🙂 Jeff's answer is a little bit different, and very much confortable to me What I understand is you mundane people can have any myth you want, you even may fit your experience with the myth you know when you do your heroquest / ceremony / worship. however, it is only personal or community experience. It is a "projection" from the mundane world. Not what the gods did * note that my english is maybe the source of my misunderstanding ^^ (but I understood the same from the french material yep fully agree thanks for the text 🙂 you should, but if you can do two versions I would change your shrine into a little temple ! one with your heroquest rules and one with the official heroquest rules (oups when we will have it 😛 )

I don't see it as an issue Being in a cult doesn't mean that you must be strong in all the cult's runes You may have a big death rune and being in a life cult. some associated cults may have a totally different activity than your own cult. but they provide your cult some opportunities to use weird powers. That doesn't mean your cult use these powers as a standard. So in my glorantha, characters (pc or npc) who are able and learn some "opposite / weird " spells (aka fear if oslira) are considered as weird too " I m pretty sure you will find them, far from the village, in this little half-submerged cave. Decades ago some bandits ravaged our village of fishers. The old Rorita saw them killing her lovely husband and her sons. Now, we fear her and her daughters. Oh they protect the village, they worship the river, as us, but they swore to hunt and destroy any scavenger they may find. And believe me , if, like me, you had heard the scream of the mercenaries who wanted to play with her daugthers... two years ago... you would certainly not try to meet them."

there are so many reasons to see this situation, "true devotion", "senior priest's bloodline conflict", "senior priest competion", "senior priest's wife/husband love" that's why I like to imagine npc even in the top cult hierarchy as sometimes "holy and devoted" and sometimes "devoted to their own ambition (or other passion)".

will answer when the heroquest rules will be provided 😛

i had the same paradox in mind until this post (and in fact... that's one of the reasons of my post) yelmalio (or the god behind yelmalio) tried to win of course but was defeated. now when you're heroquesting you act as you think your god acted. If you are devoted enough, or convinced enough that you will lose because that was what your god did, well, you lose. would call it a "self-fulfilling prophecy". And if at the end of the day, you don't lose, you will find some explanation ... wasn't really Zorak Zoran in front of you, or you were not on the hill of gold but somewhere else where Yelmalio won, or ... or maybe, you lose your devotion

my answer may be useless as my house rules impact probably it, so pick what you want if you see something interesting my general principles : - gods are sentient and "passionate" - gods may interact with the world even without mundane trigger (dream, call , any communication, reprisals, ... ), in all cases a little bit and only with their worshippers or around them - people may be initiate even without "call of the gods" : after all there is no requirement to be initiated to your parent's gods . So initiates may be "chosen" or not then inititate may have devotion or not. Like irl, you may belong to a cult even without faith, even without belief. There is a difference in glorantha, everyone "knows" and "experiments" the god existence. Any initiate feels during initiation the god presence. So the devotion doesn't mean you believe, the devotion means how much you are able to welcome (during ceremony, quest...) or to act for your god interests even against your own interests (that may explain the Issaries aspect). And of course more devoted you are, more your god appreciate you and can act for you.

or (just an option, not opinion) there are some "runic regions" : in a runic region, if something enough important happen to the godplane, then all the region is impacted. the other regions may be impact too but less. in the same way that there is heroquest impacting the heroquestor and heroquest impacting the community (village/ clan / tribe) , we may have heroquest impacting a region (another example may be Snodal's travel) we know at least two heroquests impacting the (mundane world) after all ( Zzabur * and Argrath **) * don't know if it was a real heroquest or "just" mundane sorcery but in my opinion it cannot be only made with mundane material ** in fact I don't know if what is said about the gods after Argrath is only for the "region" or for the world

don't sure the CA ability is the answer : if the SB is calm, it means the spell is no more here, so the HP bonus is.... away. In my opinion, the CA should have find a way to heal the SB before she calm the berserker => declaration of actions "I will calm the SB then I will cast immediatly ..." is fine for me but "I will calm the SB" is just killing the warrior (depending on the gm & CA player I would expect or not it as a warning or as the end of the SB pc 🙂 ) I think the consequence of a berserker spell end should be discussed before any cast with the GM. Depending on the GM she could say "no when the spell ends, the bonus is over so if you are dead you are dead" or "of course you will survive if someone succeed to heal you" Then you know what strategy apply (or not after all a good roleplay is sometimes to decide that your acts will probably call the Death but at least it is a good story) my own way is your friends have one round to to heal you. If you sacrifice yourself, is a good devotee of your god, you may gain one or two additional rounds (sometimes healers are not successful). and if, as a player, you did not respect the people around the table... just roll against your reputation pc and add 100% bonus.. if you succeed... well your death will be song in all prax and your legendary sacrifice will be known even in Nochet and overseas !

@jajagappa I fully agree with your description of the impact for the community, no issue, and i would consider fool any yelmalian wanting to save the fire too (in fact a part mad people, who can hope changing the eternal gods ?) but if I choose Hill of Gold that is because this the quest where I have no question thanks to @soltakss site years ago (I can't put the link on your site, it doesn't respond) @Joerg thanks too for your explanation (in msg).

Thanks Jeff you confort me. For decades, I have believed / misunderstood that the term "myth" in glorantha was equal to "history" -aka what the gods did - but no they are "just stories" that people believe (with more proof than elsewhere as they can all "experiment") Im happy to see I was wrong and the gloranthan myths are just myths. I m so confortable now !

but what you both describe are discovered myths , aren't they ? or did they build from scratch new myths ?

don't focus on my example, I choose Yelmalio example as the myth seems very stable (the defeat), so changing it should have a big impact in the world. My point is the impact of the world (if there is), not how to change the cold sun into someone else 🙂 in fact... we are not so far from my idea (as maybe non canonical and may forks my inital post I "spoil it" 😛 ) : yep I agree. My point is not to challenge players who propose something "new" or to say them "no", I want to understand if the characters discover something or create something. because depending on this answer, it could trigger different scenario (social with the cult, or with the gods, or ...) yes I tried to avoid to use these words as we are discussing about thing "before time" but I agree 😛 your post is interesting too , does this model fit with your answer ? we can define gods at different level (not level of power, more level of "identity") level 0 : mortal becoming gods (apotheosis) level 1: aspect of the gods (subcult in rqg) level 2: named gods (cult in rqg) level 3: unknowable deity (a root of different named gods, maybe the celestial court ?) level 4: the runes level 5: unity if it means something merge it with the invisible god and now, we know that Orlanth Invisible is not Orlanth at all : Orlanth is a level 2 god, when Orlanth Invisible = unknowable = unreachable) is level 3 god ! even if we seems to be at the opposite * way about gods (machine or not) this point fits a lot. Considering my universe laws option, illumination helps you to accept that you are yourself in the gods plane and even if you are a stranger you can stay here * and that's the point : with one more abstraction level, there is no opposition if you consider "your machine" are the universe laws and "my gods" are the first being who explored a path and guide the others (their worshippers) to the path (sharing their power = rune spells or showing how to get your own power = heroic spell)

yep for sure my example was about something "impossible", about the deep nature of god etc.. the issue I have with "discover new myths" is exactly my question 🙂 (with my words...) to discover = to find something not new but never found or forgotten so it is not possible, with my understanding or logic, "to discover a new myth", you can create a new myth (change the god plane) or you can discover an unknown myth (the god plane doesn't change, only you)

there is something i don't know about the impact of heroquesting in the world we know that with heroquesting you can bring some magic/relic from the gods plan, we know that you can "experiment" something different than what was teached in the temple but... is there a possibility that an experience is impossible to live? is the myth (aka what was done before time) frozen, and everything you can do during your heroquest was done during the myth ? or is it possible to change the myth, to transform the "before time" ? when I say change the myth, I don't say "change what the cult teach, but really what happened ages ago" Not sure my words are clear so let's go on a simple example^^ a community, powerful enough to do anything possible (the question is "what is possible"), decides to explore the hill of gold but wants yelmalio to keep his fire power. So day after day the heroquestors try to defeat ZZ. then there are few possibilities : 1) you cannot change your god (not what you believe, but really your god). if a lucky heroquestor succeed to defeat ZZ, that means that unvolontary (or not) the questor "merged" or "changed" yelmalio with another fire deity, keeping for him the fire (summon fire elemantal...) or for his community (fireblade...) OR there is an aspect of Yelmalio's myth where Yelmalio was able to defeat ZZ and kept his fire. We, gloranthan, forgot it but a powerful heroquestor may discover this aspect of the myth, teach it and "update" the cult in both cases the god and the myth don't change, it is your knowledge which changes 2) you can change / create your god : never Yelmalio did it in the myth, no aspects, no forgotten story, nothing: If you meet LM he will tell you "no that did not happen" but if enough heroquestors succeed (by experimental heroquest), they change the gods plan /and a new yelmalio (not the same) is created, may be the new one doesn't replace the old one and two gods exist now... Are heroquestors able to "create" gods ? not really successfull with the goddesses switch, but did the god learners "roll" a fumble (2 = they could succeed ) or just tried something impossible (1 = they had 0% chance to succeed) ? from a play perspective, in all cases pc may gain some specific powers their gods don't have, unvolontary or volontary (arkatism or thing like that) and it can be explained by a "confusion" of deities more than an aspect of the deity the pc "played". So the point is not really what power a pc may gain, but more to understand what is god plane/ heroquest

that is my own answer. cultists have few rune spells. If they want more "high" magic -not spirit spell- they have to explore the god plane(s), for them or for their community (in a less powerful version).

From a backgroud perspective : I don't imagine, in my glorantha, dwarves as those who have "lust wealth / gold / diamonds / ...", those who drink, eat and sing more than other races, those who challenge the other races to demonstrate how stonger they are, hunting orcs and other Melkor's minions. Those who go to adventure to accumulate wealth Not in my glorantha, yes in my middle earth or d&d play (if I had those kind of play) In my glorantha dwarves are focused on their tunnels and their plans no one understand. They don't care about gold or other metals as something else than material to build / repair the machine and their tools they are as weird as dragonewt. But when dragonewt are weird because they seem too irrational, the dwarves are weird because they seem too rational. In that case what should be an iron dwarf ? a warrior able to defend the big caves ? for sure then they need a good size a warrior able to attack some "outside" ennemies ? sometimes but not really often, then they need a good size but that is not enough : we need some "managers" in crisis situation, logisticians able to organize the retreat in good order, architects and engineers building the last defense to slow the invaders, etc.. they don't need to be big, if they have the skills and of course we need those who can exploit their environment in a way the ennemies cannot feel : those who build very small tunnels (oh a good LM would say " that is probably a ventilation system") to spray or throw any lethal material (gaz, bomb, nail, anything) those who can (with their hammer of course) start an avalanche of rocks* exactly when the ennemy is at the right place. those who can lead all these little... things ? made of clay metal or flesh but "build" by the dwarves oh these one need to be little, need to have a size < 3 they are made for that tall dwarves may have to trigger avalanche too, so hammer is better than sword or spear or axe then. not to open world, but to dwarf world. they are strangers, really strangers in the open world, in my opinion what about a dwarf pc ? well i don't enjoy a lot that idea, because, in my opinion, they are not made for open world, will be accepted with difficulty, and will accept the world with even more difficulties. So my first question would be what is a dwarf ? a small warrior, who loves beer and gold and gems ? able to "offer" big dammage ? those smith bringing disorder with them, those who hate and want to kill on sight some evil monster like orcs (hum broo ) ? take a small human (pretty sure tolkien's dwarves are size 8+ !) initiate him to storm bull, choose the warrior (heavy infantry with close helmet ?) occupation. Add a personal skill on smithing... put him a big beard, my own stomach, add lust beer and lust wealth passions and you have exactly what you want oh sure the kids from this little village will call you dwarf, probably the parents too before you open your helmet, maybe even after... and you will grumble... but wait, is grumbling the speciality of dwarfs ? ( and french too, some says ...) of course if the choice is to play a "true gloranthan dwarf" it is something else but in that case, as @JRE said, it cannot be a dwarf with all his iron gear. You need, (in my glorantha, do what you want in yours for sure ! ) to define a reason why the dwarf is outside, why will he go with humans or even worst adventurers and why or when he had/will lose his gear (after few scenarii... maybe his previous mine will hunt him to get back the iron, all the iron, maybe all the material, even the dwarf material...) by the way, an important point in "my" creation process, i don't roll dices for charcteristics so it helps to "build" what players want without envy or frustration random could generate, sometimes (a 12 INT sorcerer, a size 18 gimli... or a 120 pc against a 90 pc... etc) So when the rules say 2d6 that just means to me that a dwarf pc can have a size between 2 and 12. I don't need to change the stats of the book, I just use it not as a creation process but as a creation boundary

You re not alone 🙂 however Jeff’s answer is interesting, less impressive (no sacrifice ) but more vegan 😛 Months ago I had the idea of the both ways: the regular way when your priest decide to organized the approval ceremony and then come with the animal or objet destined to « welcome » the allied spirit (if the new rune master is accepted) and another way, when the god itself decide to promote* the initiate and send directly an allied spirit in a material form * with the same magical advantages but not the social role. but the new holy person would be able to present some clear evidence of her new status if she wants

No book I know 🙂 but if you see what a shaman is able to do, I think you may propose some abilities in the same way

i play it as 1 per "scene" during 3 hours irl, you may play : - 1 gloranthan day (like a little tournament for example, but with a lot of activities, roleplaying and dices rolling) - 1 gloranthan season (like a big journey, with few events : start, 2 encounters, arrival) I see no reason to say that if you use an ability per gloranthan day (example of the tournament, next session you will be able to use it again) you are not able to use an ability several times during a gloranthan season (example of the journey) so I prefer to define "scene" the tournament is a scene, the start (hiring, organizing, planning) is a scene, the first encounter week 3 is a scene, the second encounter week 7 is another scene, etc...

with a little addition (if i m not wrong, do not hesitate to confirm) you can cast only 1 rune spell per round *, as it takes effect always sr 1 (p314) of course there are some exception with spells (like extension) or heroic abilities for example