French Desperate WindChild

yes I agree, but if you consider [ any rock has a spirit then any rock is alive] ... i would ask what is not alive ? if everything except void is alive, what is the sense of life ? we then need another word to describe the time between birth (in all types) and death. yes and my view is the trees are dead during the hibernation and alive during the rest of the time, not that their spirits are alive, their spirits are, sometimes in hells, sometimes in mundane world, depending on the "season" but they are, they exist. i agree, that is for the most recent version. but in some games, Elmal was different from Yelmalio and blablabla 🙂 . I concentrate my attention on the last version when nothing indicates a question in a specific game. is it a body, like my body, or is it just raw material from the place where is summoned (or any other mechanism ) the elemental spirit ? I mean, if you call me, i come, with my body - the same than yesterday, well with more wrinkless-, if you know the name of an elemental, you can invoke it anywhere, it comes, takes what it can to get its physical form, does its job and go back to the spiritual world. Then what happen to its "body" ? I imagine it keeps or not (depending on the element) the last "attitude" of the elemental but becoming, again, just raw material. So, for me it is not exactly a body, but a substitute if you destroy its "body", the spirit is still a spirit, no change for it if you destroy my body, I will die, big change for me. (well I have no proof, never tried, but it seems to me 🙂 ) but i think the source of our difference is : I don't know if this point is your personal interpretation or some reference, but as I praise your knowledge (no joke) I will follow you is a generator the same than what it generates to be sure not using words i may misunderstand, i will use very basic words (no offense) motor A uses wind strength to generate electricity. motor B uses ocean strength to generate electricity. should we conclude than electricity = wind, wind = water, motor = electricity ? In my opinion, no. Differents sources for an effect. But source, transformer and effects are not the same so yes spirits can be seens as "motor" to generate life, but they need some "source" and they generate effect, they are not the effect in another way, we know that the spirit stays one week near "its" dead body before going to the hells. So I conclude that if there is still a spirit when the living person is now dead (so no more living ?) it means that spirit is different than life And what can we say about dead able to use magic in dead places, are they alive ? (then back to my first conclusion, if spirit = life and everything = spirit, what is not alive ?) of course all depends on what means death, life, magic, etc... of course, our glorantha may vary

Some reasons I propose they cannot die (or they already died) their main home is not the mundane world and the mundane world is the world of living beings that’s the rules (topic about the enchantment and bound spirits) that doesn’t mean they can’t communicate , move, act, feel, think. But without a body they are different from living

Humakt is said brother of Orlanth so I would say his « primary » form is male (and that s too what the pictures show) however I imagine that gods are more bound by runes than mortals and less bound by physical form. so in my opinion you may meet Humakt woman for some good reason( maybe the god wants to seduce someone who loves women for example) but his « standard » should be male

same for me but in fact... why not

sorry I m a little bit tired, and it seems I entered in a circle casting maybe berserker or something like that. Hope I did not wound anyone 😢

you don't propose the same logic : both spells target anything, not anyone 🙂 and as it is instant I, as a GM (before firing you from my table 😛 ) would say that if anything is accepted by rules (not imo) it is instant so it is not for the next opponents who will enter after you cast the sepll

congratulations, after being a issaries sub cult "teach trade talk" initiates, you now join the sub cult "sell joy" ! your runepool must be awesome, right !

because it is not how it works by raw. No problem to house rules, but to use your word, it is "pointless" to consider that's the life time condition is a non sense. that's not practical from a gloranthan perspective, I agree, that could be "for ever", I agree, But, imo, that's better from a gloranthan background perspective : you need to keep the contact with your community, you need to worship. that's not for nothing if a wyter is mandatory to keep a sustainable community. Spells, conditions, limits,... are not here to be just "practical" (after all where are the god learners now ?) they are here to maintain the world, the communities, etc... Now IRL : How many players consider "couvade" as a practical spell ? How many players, then, consider "[weapon] trance" as a practical spell ? in fact, tre true practical thing is how we play what is important On a table when GM said "you get a ring with a spirit inside" , if the table doesn't care, there is nothing to define (is it for ever or no ? don't care, we will end the play before the end of ever) 🙂 but considering that there is a lifetime condition offers the GM a hook : there is someone alive, someone who is the "true owner" of the spirit inside the ring - so the ring itself maybe - this one may want to get back its precious ? If you consider lifetime condition as an useless condition, you have not this hook (not a problem, of course, you're smart enough to have other options)

So there is something like cult of ancestor expected so there is someone who has to "reenact something" so there is someone to rebind the spirit 😛

think your needs differently : you want to play some d100 system, with skills, characteristics, etc, in a way there is no class defining your character. Then you have the choice of a lot of worlds and supplements : cthulu, glorantha, pendragon, hawkmoon, stormbringer, etc... each of these differents worlds propose their own bestiary and there specific rules. And there is no issue for a GM to create some "portals" between the world, allowing pc to visit a total another world after all (not my taste i m glorantha mono maniac 😛 ) So if you compare today rqg with today ad&d, that's not the same level. Compare rqg with some specific world maybe Lankhmar ? (I don't know a lot Ad&D, typically because my taste has been for 30+ years the opposite of yours, I dislike a list of monsters with there stats, as a player I m not a monster hunter. I want to understand why there is this monster, how it interacts with the world, etc... so don't need a big list, need more big details on few - but enough - diversity) that will horrify noone 😛 it will be your world, base on d100 / runequest rules system, with your races, your background, etc... And it will be fine for everybody.

Max 100 for me More than 100 is for me that you cannot play any more the character, there is no more décision to take, no more choice somewhere there is no more sentience, that’s transform the character too much it is another state

in my opinion the issue is if the gm does not play their npc like the players play their chartacters 🙂 From my perspective I would play differently -just example, i don't play it - : a) there would be good to have more special actions (for combat, as you said, feint, bonus hit point etc...). Character may know some of them or not. Some may be secret of cult / society, some not. All would be teached by weapon masters(90+), maybe some "easy" technics would be teached by good teacher (75 + ?). b) These special actions would "cost" some % in the attack roll (for example -20% = +1 Hit point) c) passions and skills may provide different things : - as raw, the skill bonus; so same result than your proposal : you = passion gives +x hit point, me passion bonus + technic malus = 0% gives +x hit point) - the temporal access to a special action the character doesn't know (a true inspiration ^^) Maybe a critical would provide the same action, but now the character knows the technic for ever etc.. why this difference with you : a master should know a technic without any passion and be able to apply it. Of course if a master is able to do that without passion, that means the access of the technic is not based on passion. But passion may inspire too, so two ways for the technic, one by study, for ever, one by passion for this specific passionate fight

agreed, however, that's for enchantment, your ancestor did not give you any spirit in the heirloom table, just enchanted (matrix, etc...) gear the only "sentient" heirloom is an animal, I assume some living (huhu) one so not from an ancestor, more from a direct parent, with the beast still alive

In my opinion we should answer other questions before : why does someone bind for ever an entity ? what could be the cost (Pow, mp, etc…) to do it only with spells against the will of the bounded entity ? For the cost, as @Joerg says, the only spell we know (or I know 😝) is the humakti binding ghost spell BUT it seems to require the acceptance of the target. , same for cult spirits bound in a temple or sacred object.. So let’s focus on a spell forcing the entity. If we forget the life duration rule, we have extension for rune spell and the duration sorcery system. Both add a defined time, there is not a limit saying « ok now it is for ever ». So the cost for a « for ever » duration is easy to define : it is infinite… so in my opinion if you want a for ever binding it cannot be done with a spell. You must find another way, heroquest or other. however there is another option for spell… and somewhere a « low cost » and in my opinion interesting dramatic option. And this is provided by the first question : why you the creator, why do you want to do it for more than your life (so not only for you but for others even some you don’t know ) ? The simpliest answer would be « because you want to offer it to a community (family, clan, cult, spirit society, malkioni organisation, etc…) » and then the answer is easy: this community must have at least one spiritual leader (ancestor worship, priest, shaman, sorcerer, etc…) if not the community disappear and the heirloom with it. so now we have a spiritual leader… once dead or near it a new one will be appointed to this charge. Then the rules applies: call the bounded spirit, control it and order it to be bound again (so you transfer the duration to the new leader life duration) i would consider that you have one week to do it after the death of the previous one (one week =the time the soul stays near the body, not totally lost from the living world.) And every thing is ok in my opinion: no missing rule, reason why there are so few « heirlooms » from other ages, another activity to spiritual leader, hook for adventure (we have just one week to get back the family sword or we will lose the spirit) @Shiningbrow i think the enchantment is the answer (full personal interpretation) : the enchantment doesn’t welcome « only » the spirit. It needs too a door to close it. Without a door, the place (aka the enchantment) is always open and the spirit can leave it. I would say that the door is the echo of the binder will So the door is only open by a living person. Those who can use the enchantment (aka condition) but the door is too bounded to the last one who put the spirit in its jail, the binder. when dead, the door disappears (like the will of the binder )

Yes my point was about Joerg position : POW = living being, position I disagree 🙂

agree agree Ghosts have POW... Are ghosts alive ? Scotty answered in the second sight post : so yes a nymph with a physical form is a living being and then can give birth, but without this form, how could she have a baby ? Nymphs are "singularities" they can choose to be living being or spirit (don't know what happens when you "kill" a nymph when she has a form, will she go for a time in the death world before coming back ? will a new one instance come ?).

no : spirit has no life force, so is not able to bind to the physical world in my opinion, it is easier to consider that : 1) the majority of bound entities are bound by "standard" enchanters and when the binder dies, we can say good by to the spirit (however, the enchantment is still here, able to welcomme another spirit) 2) but we are in a world where oath and loyalty exist and have value, sometimes cursed value. So there is no reason to not, by bargain, whorship or anything, that a spirit is not bound by itself and its words to stay in the place. That is not a condition of enchantment, that is a relationship between people and spirits. "You pay (with your mp / pow) me and I serve you". "I swore your ancestors before I was destroyed, then I will serve you until the end of your community", etc... 3) and we are in a world where heroquesting exists and provide exceptional stuff. So there is no reason to not obtain a specific item or a specific transformation that force the spirit (or any entity) to stay bound, even when the binder dies. Of course a nice GM or even player may find some "escape" option (if there is no wearer for a long time, if the wearer breaks an oath the first heroquestor made in exchange, etc.. Of course 2 and 3 are rare, of course it is for big spirit. not a small ridiculous 1d6 salamander, there are priests or equivalent paid to "reload" these kind of spirits !

how many pow do these conditions cost ? seems to me more expensive than the object itself i'm not sure there are a lot of conditions for standard enchanted objects (aka 1 - 2 pow) it is cheaper to enchant another item if needed But in my opinion, for powerful items, as others, I would say member of the cult / clan / tribe / bloodline / guild, depending on the item, who created it, etc... It could be too designed to some role in the said community (archi priest / ring member / elder / leader / etc...) Another option is "designated wielder by the previous wielder" something like a testament or gift. In all cases something very simple to understand and to check. After all if, to become prince of sartar, the conditions are "just" "be part of the Sartar bloodline" and "succed to fire the flamme" , I'm not sure that a sword with bladesharp 4 and Face chaos needs more.

no that is not the "canon" (aka Scotty's answer) However that is my houserule too 😛 the point for the spell (I don't speak about the shaman's ability) is "living" not "with pow"

That’s something I don’t understand about fetch then.. in my understanding : the fetch is part of the shaman soul the shaman is both in the mundane world (as a living being) and the spirit world (thanks to the fetch) so what do you see with the spell ? only the pow of the shaman without fetch ? I believed the fetch is always with the shaman just in the spirit world but « near » the mundane world Why not the full pow of the shaman (fetch included) of course if the shaman is running deep in the spirit world I would think that the spell shows only the fetch pow as the shaman is far from the mundane place where am I wrong in my logic ?

In my opinion living means what can die so from my understanding of the rules : 1) an object cannot die so no 2) spirit bound by the fetch is in the spirit world so no 3) fetch is part of the living shaman so yes (remember that for a lot of things POW is added so that would confirm imo) 4) the shaman is living so yes 5) the shaman is living so yes that is what I conclude from the rules however I do it differently house rules : what is in the mundane world is seen, then : 1) yes 2) no 3) yes 4) yes (you see both shaman and disease ) 5) yes the only no is when the spirit is in the spirit world with no manifestation in the mundane world so like jaja a nymph spirit is not seen if she is not physically present with her beautiful body in the same way a spirit, an elemental or what ever manifesting its presence in the world (spirit fight for example ) can be targeted and if you are shaman then there is no no at all

In my opinion the core rules book provides what is needed to start. Then as you say a lot of supplement may give some interesting points focusing on local background but one page for one god would give nothing more than what the core rules propose. Or so ridiculously that it would give more frustration than nothing 🙂 the cult books are designed to allow deep exploration (well I hope )

in the same way that bronze age people explained it 🙂 or in other way, it is not important to me and if one player ask me : "your character doesn't know. Will she ask this weird question to a priest ? is it a riddle ? etc...". Of course if the question is between player and gm I would answer "there is no answer in the books, imagine what you want, my position is magic / runes explains everything " You may consider this answer as a poor answer but that is the only explanation able to not be challenged by what is written but on what kind of base ? baboons are like baboons but they can speak with the same "shape" than irl, they seem they are less strong than irl (old discussion where the author then criticized the designers because it was not like irl) . I consider only what is written as "fact", the rest is " Our Glorantha Is What We Want When it is Not Written" and "Our Glorantha Vary When What is Written is Not What We Like" mmmm ... that could be my new moto ^^ yes you are right 🙂 you like what you want and noone should say you must like this and not that, I agree no the facts you describe are only facts IF / WHEN people follow what you like 🙂 They have right of course; but it is not a fact for everyone. That's the only purpose of my message In my glorantha the fact is, no problem In glorantha the fact is, mm I disagree 🙂 PS Note that i like a lot of your answers, it is not a personal / frontal assault, and I learn a lot of irl knowledges people share, but that doesn't prove, to me, anything about glorantha. It may explain, it may be an answer, one answer I would pick or not, but nothing obvious or fact I just say that because my poor english.. I don't want any misinterpretation 😛

to say that, you based your demonstration on some assumptions : a) there are stomach flora in glorantha like IRL b) runes are physical elements, like atoms / molecules / what you want IRL but is there any proof of that ? and what if : a) first being bodies are made of clay b) life is the result of the transformation of this clay by the use of the power of runes c) sentience, communication, etc... is the result of another use of the power of runes d) pregnency is the result of a "sexual ceremony" magic, where two bodies share some intimity e) everything which is not described in the gloranthan background is the result of use of the power of runes. do my assumption propose a more bronze age flavor ? Why what is not explained in glorantha books should be explained by what actual science explain in our world ?

I think it is a question of perspective being initiate means you are closer to the entity you worship. It is "translated" in all the cults of the RQ:G rules as "in the same time you learn a rune spell" but you (anyone) may want an entity people worship who doesn't provide any "efficient rune spell" for players but something else : (I = god / great entity) " If you worship me well and sacrifice enough of your life/soul power, I will not destroy your village" "I need to be feed to save your lands, if you can't provide me enough spirtual food, I will not be able to block the volcano evil spirit and it will burn your lands" " Share your soul and I will teach you some knowledge [secret skill] / [secret spiritual magic]" "Prove your faith and you will eat with me every sacred time, be sure I will protect you when you will die" I agree we can consider that the 2 first as some very specific and located "rune spell" from my perspective, rune spell and rune pool are a game design model, it is not a background thing rune spell is the term to define "when characters pray their gods to do something, if they know the prayer and have enough "provision" to fuel it they may obtain a good answer from their gods" but the rules propose at least six other interactions * between worshippers and their gods : gift /geas (yelmalio, humakt, ...) secret skill (storm bull , ...) divination divine intervention gain of pow during worshipping (you become stronger thanks to your god) save the world during the sacred time ceremonies * I mean game design interaction, from a gloranthan perspective it seems to me everything is "prayer"