Solo Chart Translation

[YwainDigsLions]

Has anybody ever come across this document before:

https://gspendragon.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/pendragoneventssummerwinter1.pdf

If so, does anybody know what the 'shield / negative shield' symbol represents? Is it a check mark for that skill/trait? 

[Morien]

4 minutes ago, YwainDigsLions said:

Is it a check mark for that skill/trait? 

I think so.

[YwainDigsLions]

5 minutes ago, Morien said:

I think so.

How do you uncheck a skill (negative shield)?

[Atgxtg]

1 hour ago, YwainDigsLions said:

How do you uncheck a skill (negative shield)?

You don't. Remember that the sheet you found is somebody's house rules. Unchecking is not something that happens in in the normal rules.

 

[Morien]

2 hours ago, YwainDigsLions said:

How do you uncheck a skill (negative shield)?

I took that to mean that you roll Honor, and if you succeed in Honor, it goes down by one.

Like Atgxtg says, it is not in the normal rules, but it is something I have seen floated as a houserule from time to time. The big benefit of doing it that way instead of a flat -1 Honor is that someone with Low Honor can act dishonorable and their Honor likely suffers only a little, while someone with high-ish Honor suffers more. Let's say that instead of -4 Honor, we would roll Honor 4 times and lower it by one for the successes. A has Honor 5, B has Honor 15. It is likely that A succeeds once and hence has Honor 4 afterwards (-1), where as B likely succeeds 3 times and hence has Honor 12 afterwards (-3). Everyone knows that A is already a bit shaky as far as the Honor is concerned, so hearing that he did something dishonorable is more of a 'shrug, again?' whereas B's actions would be met with gasps of surprise and disapproval.

[stryker99]

I love these tables. I am guessing a lot of people use them, so house rule or not it's probably worthwhile discussing it. Sure wish there was some explanation packaged along with it as it took me quite a while to figure out the plus/shield was a check, and I didn't understand the negative version of this either.

I just the other day think I figured out the 0/1/2/3 tables... Each one has 3 attributes/traits/skills listed above them and I take that to mean "How many of these succeeded at an unopposed test"?

Also, how do people interpret "Luck" "roll Luck" and "Gift of Luck" here? I need to come up with something as I really want to continue using these tables. It adds a lot of cool story elements to the game. 

[Morien]

11 minutes ago, stryker99 said:

I take that to mean "How many of these succeeded at an unopposed test"?

That is how I interpreted them as well.

11 minutes ago, stryker99 said:

 

Also, how do people interpret "Luck" "roll Luck" and "Gift of Luck" here?

IIRC, the guy who came up with these charts had a house rule for a Luck attribute. Unfortunately, I can't remember the details, but maybe some other forumite can.

[BioKeith]

I've always just interpreted Luck as rolling on the Luck tables from the Book of Knights and Ladies.

[Uhtred]

The Esoteteric Order of Roleplayers posted these charts - and at least one other, for yearly Kin Events - and I reached out to them through their Facebook page to have the fighting events explained and they responded fairly quickly with a thorough explanation.  I enjoy the charts, and my PK's equally rue and exalt in them.  They have added depth to our story beyond the straight GPC events.  I've started making players roll for their yearly event prior to the Spring Court so that I can work the results in to the GPC - for instance one PK rolled a Bad Luck Event for this year, and it turned out to be Horse Dies in an Accident and this just happened to be 495 so when his horse was wounded at St. Albans I decided it will become infected and die during our post-feast wrap-up this week.  Having a week or two to work the event into the story has proven far more rewarding then just roll / effect.  

As for the Luck roll, we base it on the chart from BoKL according to where we are - for instance one adventure that took the PK's to Ireland meant the player rolled on the Irish Luck table instead of the standard (Cymric) table. 

Edited August 28, 2019 by Uhtred

[Morien]

12 hours ago, BioKeith said:

I've always just interpreted Luck as rolling on the Luck tables from the Book of Knights and Ladies.

Yes, you are right.

I got it confused with another chart, Expanded Manor Luck, which has LUC as an attribute that you roll from time to time, and can get modifiers on.

[sirlarkins]

I should point out that Paladin has a pretty fun set of yearly event/kin event tables that are perhaps less comprehensive than these charts (which I love) but also much easier to use!

[Morien]

16 hours ago, sirlarkins said:

I should point out that Paladin has a pretty fun set of yearly event/kin event tables that are perhaps less comprehensive than these charts (which I love) but also much easier to use!

Yep. Much superior to the default KAP 5.2 Family Events, I must say. Given the choice between the two, I'd just swipe the Paladin ones to use for KAP.

The only result that I am not too crazy about is the promotion (19), simply because it seems like a too big a step for Pendragon and would usurp the leading role of the PK as the head of the family. In Paladin, the family clan is stronger and bigger, so it makes some sense there, but I would still be hesitant to include such an event. Instead, I might do a smaller promotion, like someone in the family gets knighted (adding a family knight) or one of the already existing family knights becomes a landed knight.

[Hzark10]

1 hour ago, Morien said:

Instead, I might do a smaller promotion, like someone in the family gets knighted (adding a family knight) or one of the already existing family knights becomes a landed knight.

Or determine how many promotions you would need to get this big step. Here you could give the family, get something now or accumulate this bonus. Once you reach, say 3, then you could get the big one.  Do you go for the quick bonus, or try to finagle a better one, but that one may never materialize.

[Morien]

42 minutes ago, Hzark10 said:

Or determine how many promotions you would need to get this big step.

The thing is that this is a step to become a Baron (in Pendragon). It is not something I am just going to give away to a PK's family member 5% of the time. If you have 4 players, the chances are that one of them rolls this every 5 years or so. You'll end up with all of them having a baron in generation.

Sure, if you demand that it would require more promotions (as it bloody well should!), even then you start getting into some problems. Sure, it takes longer, but you are again looking on average like one roll of 19 per 20 years. It is actually worse, since result 20 is that you can pick, so you get 19 or 20 every 10 years. Since the campaign is about 80 years, you have 8 picks collected! Per PK! According to your 3 pick promotion scheme, this would be 2-3 barons per PK. Even worse from storytelling perspective is that unless the PKs themselves are Barons, they end up eclipsed by their NPK relatives. (As it happens, this sorta happened in our playthrough, as one NPK became the head of the family and the banneret leader of all the PKs. They managed to join an invasion of Normandy and thanks to some critical rolling at the appropriate time, the NPK managed to lead them to victory which resulted in a baronial estate in Normandy. But this took a lot of doing across a few years by the PKs and the NPK himself, it wasn't a random family event roll.)

My Players are averaging maybe one grant manor per generation. Certainly not one Baron per generation! And if there is a baron, it can bloody well be one of the PKs who has worked for it, not some lucky SOB relative since you rolled a 19 or 20 enough times!

Oh, a quick shout-out also to the Personal Events (Table 10-9) in Paladin. I like! (Although I would not have a knightly bastard on a failed Chaste! Perhaps those Frankish noblewomen like to play fast and loose...)

[Hzark10]

1 hour ago, Morien said:

Oh, a quick shout-out also to the Personal Events (Table 10-9) in Paladin. I like!

Agreed.

1 hour ago, Morien said:

You'll end up with all of them having a baron in generation.

YPMV. It all depends on what you and your players want to do. Perhaps in this game, I want the players to become Barons. Move up the chain so to speak. I don't just want to give them as starting players, but I want the players to be the movers and shakers in this hypothetical game.  Might want to set in Cambria, or the North where I can have room to just let the players go all out and have fun.  

Many have used this system to run games in other settings (e.g., Middle-Earth or Samurai, or Greece). Why not try to see what is needed to run a very high level game? That is all I was suggestion. If my suggestion of 3 was too quick, change it to 10.  Or not allow it at all.  The point I was trying to make is, do I want this option in my game. If so, do I need to tweak it? If not, then what restrictions are needed?

Humbly submitted.

[Morien]

35 minutes ago, Hzark10 said:

Perhaps in this game, I want the players to become Barons.

That is the point. It is NOT the PKs, but Cousin Random over there. I don't want that to happen just because a Player rolled 19-20 in a yearly roll. That is way way too often to even be something interesting to throw into the mix. Now, if you do another 1d20 to see what kind of a promotion it is and then you roll 20 again, well then we can start talking about how he managed to steal the heart of the baronial widow or something... But 10% yearly chance per Player is way too common.

 

38 minutes ago, Hzark10 said:

Might want to set in Cambria, or the North where I can have room to just let the players go all out and have fun.  

You actually make it WORSE by moving out of Logres, since there are fewer barons. And as I am trying to get through here, it is not the PKs earning their promotions, but a random family member getting promoted thanks to a 10% chance per Player on a yearly roll.

[Hzark10]

1 hour ago, Morien said:

It is NOT the PKs, but Cousin Random over there.

Then I interpreted this chart wrong.  I always was applying my thinking to PKs only.  

 

1 hour ago, Morien said:

You actually make it WORSE by moving out of Logres, since there are fewer barons.

That might be true, but I was also counting the numerous petty kings out there that might not even be in the game at this point.  

I am also trying to show what can be done with RAW and houserules.  

I am sorry to even bring it up.

[Morien]

26 minutes ago, Hzark10 said:

I always was applying my thinking to PKs only.  

Nope, it is clear that you continue onwards to roll from the Family Member table to find who the promoted person is. No chance of the PK himself.

Even if it was the PK himself, I still would not be handing off count positions on a 10% yearly random roll.

31 minutes ago, Hzark10 said:

I am sorry to even bring it up.

No, I fully agree with you that if someone wants to play a high-powered game with the PKs as Barons or even more, they should feel free!

In our Middle-earth campaign, one PK ended up as the son-in-law to King Anarion of Gondor, and they all would have been minor barons in KAP scale anyway.

What I am arguing against is putting such a promotion on a 10% yearly random roll. It becomes distressingly common, and cheapens the work needed to get there. Now it is just random luck which will eventually happen to some lucky NPC.

[Atgxtg]

I think the point is that while it's perfectly okay to run Barons and other such characters as PKs if desired, such shouldn't be forced onto GMs and players when not desired. Such things are probably best not left to random tables. 

[Atgxtg]

On 8/28/2019 at 12:34 PM, sirlarkins said:

I should point out that Paladin has a pretty fun set of yearly event/kin event tables that are perhaps less comprehensive than these charts (which I love) but also much easier to use!

What are they like? I haven't picked up Paladin as my group would prefer the Arthurian setting and also because most of the rule changes haven't won me over. 

 

[sirlarkins]

3 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

What are they like? I haven't picked up Paladin as my group would prefer the Arthurian setting and also because most of the rule changes haven't won me over.

For your yearly Personal Event, you roll 1d20, which then gives you a trait or passion to roll against. Doing so, you then get one of four possible results depending on whether you critical, succeed, fail, or fumble. A result of 20 on the first roll allows the player to choose which trait or passion to roll against. So all in all you have 76 possible events.

So a roll of 9, say, has you rolling Prudent. Let's say you fail: "You took the risk to go out on a cold, wet, and stormy night. Only a successful CON roll can avoid an Aging roll. Check Reckless, but your stupid bravery earns you 10 Glory."

The Family Event table is a 1d20 roll, with 19 possible outcomes plus "player's choice" on a 20. There's a second table to roll to see which family member experiences the event. Outcomes range from good (Glorious Deed, Heroic Death, Promotion) to bad (Petty/Serious Crime, Festering Feud, Ransom).

[Khanwulf]

On these tables I've often wished for a set of instructions to go with it. 

For example it seems to apply to the males of the family, broadly, and to knights for the solos. Am I correct?

So if I wanted to do a thorough family event check I'd roll for every male in the family including the PK?

 

--Khanwulf 

[dvdmacateer]

On 9/10/2019 at 4:52 PM, Khanwulf said:

On these tables I've often wished for a set of instructions to go with it. 

For example it seems to apply to the males of the family, broadly, and to knights for the solos. Am I correct?

So if I wanted to do a thorough family event check I'd roll for every male in the family including the PK?

 

--Khanwulf 

: Kin events - our house rules (split from Rule Questions)
https://greathall.chaosium.com/Pendragon Forum Archive/index.php/t-305.html

[Call Me Deacon Blues]

Incidentally, I stole the table from Paladin for my Pendragon game, and just treat Promotion as 1 step above their current station, i.e. Esquire to Household knight, to vassal with a gift manor, vassal with a grant manor, banneret with gift estate, banneret with grant estate, baron etc.