DIY your way to OLG or even BRP bliss

[Bill the barbarian]

Bill that way leads to TLA (three letter acronym) madness, or does it... So, the OGL (Open Gaming Licence) is coming to BRP (Basic Role Playing). Now might be the time to download a cheap PDF and print and  bind it yourself rather than awaiting a POD solution...one could write a cheap module and make an inexpensive gift in a word processing doc (WP doc) and creating a PDF out of it for someone for Christmas (Xmas) but all full o love. Hire an artist and get a DTP (ARRGGGHHH!) layout program. Hmm the possibilities are maddening. soooooo rather than risking a SAN roll failure, I thought....

[Bill the barbarian]

1 hour ago, Old Man Henerson said:

So does all this mean that we will be able to produce our own sub systems for Chaosium and make money from it?

 

1 hour ago, Richard S. said:

I'd assume so, assuming that it works similarly to other OGLs.

 

1 hour ago, Old Man Henerson said:

Sweet, time to work on my Night Land setting.

I wonder if I would have to make my own pictures.🤔

 

1 hour ago, Richard S. said:

That's a book, right? I think you'd have to get permission from the author if you wanted to make money off of a BRP hack for playing in it.

 

1 hour ago, Bill the barbarian said:

@ochoa is advertising his work around here that he has mad skills (okay, those are my words but I like what I have seen). I have chatted with him and found him very approachable, yet to work with him but maybe one day...

 

35 minutes ago, g33k said:

True enough!

That said, there's a fair number of passion-projects and labors-of-love in the gaming-world.  I doubt that (for example) @M Helsdon's "Armies and Enemies of Dragon Pass" was guaranteed ANY available market when he began the project...   Sometimes -- for amateurs, for new initiatives, etc -- the creator's cost of creating isn't really part of the equation when they consider the question of "making money."

This obviously isn't a sustainable business model, or a way for a creative type to keep food on the table & a roof overhead.

But the number of really good passion-projects in the gaming world is, frankly, both astounding and dismaying*.

 

 

 

* The dismay comes when you realize how much being a creator becomes a "rich person hobby." **   If a bunch of (economically secure) people create works of extremely-high quality, and count their cost of creation at or near zero (because they self-subsidized it via their "real job")...  how can someone else, not economically secure, ever hope to make a living at it?  That is, why would a customer buy an expensive product from someone making a living wage, vs a cheap (but equally good) product from someone whose living is assured with zero gaming-income?  Cents-per-word payments are notoriously poor in gaming (with some notable exceptions), and some publishers have failed to pay, resisted paying, tried to renegotiate downward after the fact, been abominably late, etc etc etc.  Some publishers are known to offer first-timers even worse rates.  "Take it or leave it" for inadequate pay OFTEN gets "taken" by those same folk who are subsidizing their creative writing with that "real job," and don't really care if they get "paid" a pittance ... or less.

 

 

** I still wonder if the cash-infusions that the Moon Design folk (Rick/Jeff/Neil/Michael) brought to Chaosium have ever actually been repaid to them.  Despite their undoubted skills and talents that saw the nuChaosium resurrection... there was some cold hard cash that ALSO contributed to the success of the turnaround!  None of my business, of course!  If any or all of them just regard it as gone in a good cause, or if they're on some "repayment" plan, or if they've long-since been repaid (by the evergreen fountains of Cthulhu and Glorantha) and are now planning their wealthy Scrooge McDuck retirements on tropical beaches with gold-plated lawnchairs... None of it makes any difference in my life.

 

 

1 hour ago, Bill the barbarian said:

Hmm, time to audition new layout programs (am I old fashioned for hating Adobe ’s subscription model?).

 

24 minutes ago, foolcat said:

Nope, not at all. Still looking for my sweet spot as well, preferably macOS based—as long as “rudimentary, but quick and costing next to nothing because it’s already there” suffices, there’s always page layout mode of Pages. But pretty, it is not.

 

 

19 minutes ago, Bill the barbarian said:

I think it might rank a little better than Ready, Set, Go from the eighties but it does work, My rogues gallery sits at 500 pages in Pages... If we keep this up... we might have. to. start. a ...hobbist forum for the DIY hobbyist...  Check the tavern soon I will get on this...

See what I mean... I think there is stuff worth discussing here....

[Bill the barbarian]

@kirinyaga

2 hours ago, Bill the barbarian said:

6 hours ago, kirinyaga said:

Note I printed and bound myself a few PDFs. It's not that complicated and fun to do. Unless DTRPG provides that print-on-demand option, that's what I plan to do with A&EoDP.

Thanks for the post kirinyaga! I was wondering if you wold mind providing a bit of data to go with that wonderful thought? Are there any good ’net resources you take advantage of to help an interested individual learn this stuff? 

 

 

[SDLeary]

By Request...

   1 hour ago,  Bill the barbarian said: 

   1 hour ago,  Bill the barbarian said: 

Hmm, time to audition new layout programs (am I old fashioned for hating Adobe ’s subscription model?).

Affinity Publisher. New, and still has some issues, but its serviceable and inexpensive; and they are actively working to fix the issues, and add more features.

In addition, it  has sister apps for photos and vector drawing.

SDLeary

EDIT: for  anyone interested, looks like they are running a special too... all three programs are 30% off, each.

Edited 2 minutes ago by SDLeary

•  

Edited December 3, 2019 by SDLeary

[g33k]

It is indeed a topic worth... uhhh... topicalizing.

Of course, there is some risk of a topical becoming anethsitizing, and/or the project sending one towards the Oats & Rye thread by way of Rye, for further anesthesia (I suspect this is a likely conseqence).

But, onward! ever onward!

[Bill the barbarian]

sigh

[Bill the barbarian]

7 minutes ago, SDLeary said:

Affinity Publisher. New, and still has some issues, but its serviceable and inexpensive; and they are actively working to fix the issues, and add more features.

 

Cheers, this will have to suffice, I am all out of hearts agin... 

49.77 cdn, I think Ready Set Go  cost 99 in the days I spent 800 for Aldus PM 5.0 That said, what is wrong with it?

[SDLeary]

1 minute ago, Bill the barbarian said:

Cheers, this will have to suffice, I am all out of hearts agin... 

49.77 cdn, I think Ready Set Go  cost 99 in the days I spent 800 for Aldus PM 5.0 That said, what is wrong with it?

Yes! And the other apps are excellent and inexpensive too. More importantly NO SUBSCRIPTION!

SDLeary

[Bill the barbarian]

1 minute ago, SDLeary said:

4 minutes ago, Bill the barbarian said:

49.77 cdn, I think Ready Set Go  cost 99 in the days I spent 800 for Aldus PM 5.0 That said, what is wrong with it?

Yes! And the other apps are excellent and inexpensive too. More importantly NO SUBSCRIPTION!

I think you missed my query good sir, It is above in purple...

[SDLeary]

 

11 minutes ago, Bill the barbarian said:

I think you missed my query good sir, It is above in purple...

Nothing show stopping.  Mainly new program teething pains... odd crashes in different circumstances that they are still trying to track down, some import issues (primarily PDF), and things along  those lines. And oddly, it varies based on platform. Take a look HERE.

You can also look HERE to see what is actively being worked on.

SDLeary

EDIT: Also... if you run into any issues, one of the first things I'd suggest is trying to validate any fonts used in the project. Odd stuff that's hard to track down  can occur if a font is corrupt. 

Edited December 3, 2019 by SDLeary

[Bill the barbarian]

19 minutes ago, g33k said:

It is indeed a topic worth... uhhh... topicalizing.

Of course, there is some risk of a topical becoming anethsitizing, and/or the project sending one towards the Oats & Rye thread by way of Rye, for further anesthesia (I suspect this is a likely conseqence).

But, onward! ever onward!

Now this one truly  baffles me, G33k being a Bill The Barbarian Eurmali, type and Bill being all g33kie (read geekie) and serious....

Alright @Trifletraxor, are you serving Uz beer to humans agin?

Brought your nay saying forward as it beared topifiying (is that how ya put it?) and hoped you might expand or expound on it. I like DIY, threw concerts that way for a decade and adored every second of low-budget mayhem, volunteers, sponsors, giving the bar to charities to run and profit from... I never wanted to make money off booze (leave that for the pros who love and take care of their drunks, but you still need booze if ya want people to dance)) and the was mostly for fun anyways... great stuff! Some of my professional brethren dig it and some figure me for a bit of a sell out (not the right term the opposite is needed)... So I have a foot in both worlds.

Edited December 3, 2019 by Bill the barbarian

[g33k]

I actually DO have a product or two in mind, that I might produce in the manner you are discussing in this thread...

 

One of them would need to be a licensed IP (and I've got no cash to throw at such a license; so it'd be one o' those "passion projects" done strictly for my own enjoyment (though if it got far enough, and was turning out good enough, I might then take my project back to Chaosium and see if THEY thought it was worth -- and they could achieve -- that licensed-IP treatment)).

The other... oh, I could license someone's IP, because it's clearly derived/inspired by prior work; but it's a project within a recognizable genre, and no particular "prior work" need be any more a source than any other "prior work," so I can just write to the genre, and be fine.

Anyhow...  I really DO hope this thread gets plenty of attention ... and participation! 

 

[Bill the barbarian]

Some time ago somewhere else away, foolcat said:

Quote

Nope, not at all. Still looking for my sweet spot as well, preferably macOS based—as long as “rudimentary, but quick and costing next to nothing because it’s already there” suffices, there’s always page layout mode of Pages. But pretty, it is not.

Well @foolcat, this is a Mac program.

[Old Man Henerson]

So how difficult would this process be? Is all we have to do is copy and paste the Big Golden Book, add some monsters, lore, maps, a few pictures and we are done?

[Bill the barbarian]

10 minutes ago, Old Man Henerson said:

So how difficult would this process be? Is all we have to do is copy and paste the Big Golden Book, add some monsters, lore, maps, a few pictures and we are done?

My eyeballs hate you.

I suppose an explanation is in order I an finishing the editing of 40 pages of text and Stat Blocks which has taken me about 80 hrs and that is just a part of the whole....VIsine, my kingdom for visine and a pack of anacin....

Cheers

 

[Old Man Henerson]

32 minutes ago, Bill the barbarian said:

My eyeballs hate you.

I suppose an explanation is in order I an finishing the editing of 40 pages of text and Stat Blocks which has taken me about 80 hrs and that is just a part of the whole....VIsine, my kingdom for visine and a pack of anacin....

Cheers

 

Well... perhaps I will stick to making homebrews for the near future. Ha ha. 😅

Still, I would love making the Night Land into an actual setting, so one day I might just do it, even if it does not make much money. It will be a labor of love.

Good luck on your project. 👍 What is it about?

Edited December 4, 2019 by Old Man Henerson
Thought of something new to add

[Bill the barbarian]

5 hours ago, Old Man Henerson said:

Well... perhaps I will stick to making homebrews for the near future. Ha ha. 😅

 

Still I think that could be just as good grist for a topic about DIY as any... How are you going to go about it?

@SDLeary said

Nothing show stopping.  Mainly new program teething pains... odd crashes in different circumstances that they are still trying to track down, some import issues (primarily PDF), and things along  those lines. And oddly, it varies based on platform. Take a look HERE.

 

Well the reviews say some glowing things, I will have to to throw some money at it and give it a try. One of my questions is starting out well.

 

Edited December 4, 2019 by Bill the barbarian

[kirinyaga]

For book binding, here is a tutorial for the simplest method. It's in french but you only really need to look at the pictures (ignore the first one to make a tiny book, print your pdf on A3 for A4 book or A4 for A5 book) :

http://dansmapetiteroulotte.eklablog.fr/diy-fabriquer-un-livre-avec-une-reliure-a125635298

The only important stuff is the stitching and there is a clear schema. That's what I used. For the thread I got some wax thread (for leather I think) that is thick enough (but not too much) from amazon ( and the fr amazon ). These are just example, I got them because I wanted brightly colored ones. I also bought a couple big needles for leather to accomodate the thread. There are some curved ones that are very useful.

For the glue, I used regular wood glue, it works fine and is not too rigid. I used the method presented above, that is I glued a piece of cloth to reinforce the back and the join between the paper and the cover. Another, more classical, method is to use ribbons or rope :

https://www.ibookbinding.com/blog/sewing-the-book/ (in english but, again, just look at the sewing pictures to understand)

For the cover, you'll need thick carton or thin wood and something to decorate it. Beware you need to put glue on both side if you want to avoid warping. Or use thick wood I guess.

There is also an even simpler stitching, the japanese one, that doesn't need any other explanation than a simple photo of it. I'll post some when I get home.

To print your pdf, you must use the booklet mode : 2 pages per side, on both side of the sheet. And you have to print your pdf in several batches, one per "signature" (the folds you stitch together). To print an A4 book, I used 5 A3 sheets per signature (more than 6 looks very thick), so I printed a booklet for pages 1-20, then 21-40, etc... You need the booklet mode, because you need to print page 1 and 20 on recto, then 2 and 19 on verso of first sheet, etc.. so when you pile up the 5 sheets and fold them, the pages are in order. The booklet mode take care of this. Make some tests first, you'll get it.

Adjust the number of pages in your last ones so you don't end up with a single sheet on the last signature.

 

[kirinyaga]

An english version of the first method :

https://www.trumpetvine.com/moleskine-reloaded/

[kirinyaga]

here is the spirit spells list, with a japanese binding. No folding here, just make holes and go through with your thread. The third image is the runic spells list, I tested with two piece of wood. Very nice, and useful at the table as reference booklets.

[kirinyaga]

Then stafford's library GRoY, entekosiad & fortunate succession, bound with a piece of leather my father kept when he replaced his old sofa 😁

[kirinyaga]

and finally, more stafford's library waiting for their cover

[kirinyaga]

You should give the back a round form, before glueing, unlike I did for the first one 😉.

[kirinyaga]

I'll add I was very dubious at the japanese binding at the beginning, but we use the booklets in all our sessions since months now and they didn't get loose so far. And it's super easy & quick to do. With the wood pieces, it's really strong.

[Old Man Henerson]

12 hours ago, Bill the barbarian said:

Still I think that could be just as good grist for a topic about DIY as any... How are you going to go about it?

I have just been writing lore, monster stats, and character stats down in Word Documents for the most part while keeping Big Golden Book to use as my rule book. Every now and then I will draw up a monster design in MS paint for my current campaign, although I am going to go back to drawing them in my Manga Studio EX 4.o comic book program since it has better features. For my Night land Setting, I was doing pretty much the same thing, I was however, very lucky and found a site where someone had generously made up a bunch of stats in CoC format that I was able to take for my game. For pictures, I would just gather art people had made about the Night Land book and place it into my book since it was just for my private use anyway.

If I did start on making an official setting however, I would certainly find artists for the project, or pay for some of their work.