Glorion Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 Has everyone noticed that the account of how the ruins got smokin' is totally different in Smoking Ruins than in the Glorantha Sourcebook? If GS was right, that would knock the whole Smokings Ruins adventure .into a cocked hat. IMHO, the explanation is simple. The story in the Glorantha Sourcebook comes out of Lhankor Mhy researchers talking to trolls, so it's the troll version. The version in the Sourcebook, which makes trolls look vastly better than the true story in Smoking Ruins, is what the trolls prefer to believe, or at least to tell anyone who asks. The Dragonewts know better but rarely share their knowledge about things like this with .humans, and the Beastmen, not big on history, have a more accurate story in their tribal traditions, but that is just legends from ignorant Beastmen not to be taken seriously by real scholars. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 8 hours ago, Glorion said: Has everyone noticed that the account of how the ruins got smokin' is totally different in Smoking Ruins than in the Glorantha Sourcebook? If GS was right, that would knock the whole Smokings Ruins adventure .into a cocked hat. IMHO, the explanation is simple. The story in the Glorantha Sourcebook comes out of Lhankor Mhy researchers talking to trolls, so it's the troll version. The version in the Sourcebook, which makes trolls look vastly better than the true story in Smoking Ruins, is what the trolls prefer to believe, or at least to tell anyone who asks. The Dragonewts know better but rarely share their knowledge about things like this with .humans, and the Beastmen, not big on history, have a more accurate story in their tribal traditions, but that is just legends from ignorant Beastmen not to be taken seriously by real scholars. The Sourcebook is a collection of Lhankor Mhy documents, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorion Posted February 18, 2020 Author Share Posted February 18, 2020 15 hours ago, Jeff said: The Sourcebook is a collection of Lhankor Mhy documents, I think you just agreed with me Jeff? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erol of Backford Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 So reading through Harstal's Tale (TotRM 15 p.50) Sora Goodseller goes on a trading mission to get a white stallion or something of the sort. I am guessing its long before she met Queen Leika? The PC's pass the Smoking Ruins... Spoiler At the request of the Feathered Horse Queen they assist the Lost Valley against a large band of bandits rather than the Company of the Manticore but it could be roughly the same configuration as that? After passing by a few times the male Ernalda (to be acolyte) and the female Vinga (to be Rune Lord) are intrigued by the Smoking Ruins. Maybe they have dreams or conduct divinations that push them to investigate the ruins. They end up campaigning and clear the place out but only after making a deal with the Feathered Horse Queen so they are to be given (insert title - duke, queen-king, whatever) hereditary ruling rights over the city with some sort of oath spell/bound document provide they give some of the profits from the newly established trade post that is known as New Korolstead to the She sends them a group of vendref to help get the city going again, farms, crafts, etc. help pacify the ruin, clear the smoke, etc... (there was a scenario somewhere that the PC's are asked to train some of the Grazer Orlanthi vendref IIRC in the Grazer lands to be militia...) Maybe the they train the vendref to fight as part of the deal with the FHQ? Spoiler The mirror stays in New Korolstead and the city is gradually rebuilt by dwarves sent to help by Isidilian. New Korolstead becomes a great temple of Ernalda, has weekly great markets and even the Orlanth temple is reestablished via the Vingan. Forget Clearwine and the need for the PC's to pander to Lieka and cronies for their own personal gains. If you have ideas adding or expanding to this please share them. How much fun is that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
French Desperate WindChild Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 4 hours ago, Erol of Backford said: If you have ideas adding or expanding to this please share them. How Leika could react ? (or any other powerful peole, king, chief priest, ...) Are all your powerfull neighbours happy to see there is now a new rival.. Economic competitor, religious rival, etc... even agent of non sartarite power (FHQ) New great temple (or even "just" new temple) = less money for older temples, less initiations so less loyal followers, etc... Did the pc obtain support or at least authorization from all these nice people ? Or did they make their business without any consideration to them ? A lot of complots, maybe some mercenaries, bandits, curse shaman... some blockus ? or divine challenge (who is the best priest ? if pc lose their temple is now under domination of the other temple) etc... or just animosity , don't try to ask them anything, no help because their is dream dragon, a chaos nest, or even some lunar company who knows the political situation. Or maybe, some lunar agent who think he can use the pc ambition or credulity for the empire's benefit 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erol of Backford Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 3 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said: How Leika could react ? (or any other powerful peole, king, chief priest, ...) She may be in exile when this happens so no issue. The PC's are from Clearwine. 3 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said: New great temple (or even "just" new temple) = less money for older temples, less initiations so less loyal followers, etc... Good point but the settlement would start very small and grow gradually. Most importantly they'd be backed by the FHQ as its Grazer territory is it not? It's out of Sartar's boundaries for sure. There would be an increased need for bands of Grazer horsemen to guard caravans as well so as I see it there would be a win-win. A nasty mess gets cleaned up and the FHQ and her minions get an increasing amount of revenue over the years. They'd need to work on relations with Muse Roost and the PC's would have established themselves with the inhabitants of Elf Woods, Long Home and Urvantan. They'd love it as it'd be added protection for them and a market for their goods as I see it. Who knows maybe the Elves would send some gardeners to New Korolstead and its starts looking like the Hanging Gardens... I am guessing it'd take a few decades to get it back on track as a city and commerce center but sounds quite interesting for a full campaign. Spoiler As the mirror stays there it'd almost be assured. 3 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said: Did the pc obtain support or at least authorization from all these nice people? As stated, of course they would. They'd reach a long term accord with the FHQ and so no matter who she might bed in the future they'd be tied to her. I suppose it'd be like a tribe/clan in Sartar to the Price there, before the lunars of course. I was thinking this could happen at any time as the constraints set out by the Smoking Ruins book could be ignored. It's been there smoking for several hundred years and on one resolved the issue. 3 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said: A lot of complots Yes, loads of subplots. I love it and your input. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
French Desperate WindChild Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 2 hours ago, Erol of Backford said: She may be in exile when this happens so no issue. no issue, if it is not Leika, it is someone else... They are others 2 hours ago, Erol of Backford said: the settlement would start very small and grow gradually oh I understood it was done 😛 but that's better, they (the others) will see your pcs growing. The challenges will be harder and harder. 2 hours ago, Erol of Backford said: Most importantly they'd be backed by the FHQ as its Grazer territory is it not? It's out of Sartar's boundaries for sure. I am unable to answer 🙂 but that does not change a lot : in addition of their Sartarite neighbours (who may be competitor too), you have Grazers too. Will your grazer leaders be happy to see non Grazers (cult / culture / origin, I don't know who are yout pc) to get their resources ? (venderf, land, ...) Even if they follow their queen, they may have some issue, and then try secretly to annoy pcs. That's not because the queen agrees or more, wants them to create their business, her followers may disagree. Not a revolt, not an open challenge... but politic is subtile. Even if they think the settlement is a good idea... Why the pcs ? Why not their brother , son , sister ? Why an Ernaldan male when my sister is skilled enough to be priestess but there is not yet open position ? etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erol of Backford Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 7 minutes ago, French Desperate WindChild said: you have Grazers too Isn't the Feathered Horse Queen the leader of the Grazers? She will have signed off on the redevelopment of the Smoking Ruins and be directly benefiting from the trade there. 2 hours ago, Erol of Backford said: There would be an increased need for bands of Grazer horsemen to guard caravans as well so as I see it there would be a win-win. A nasty mess gets cleaned up and the FHQ and her minions get an increasing amount of revenue over the years. Noted above... Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erol of Backford Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 10 minutes ago, French Desperate WindChild said: Why the pcs ? Why not their brother , son , sister ? Why an Ernaldan male when my sister is skilled enough to be priestess but there is not yet open position ? etc... No one has messed with the Smoking Ruins for a couple hundred years. The PC's earn trust, help the locals open trade and even act as lieutenants of the Feather Horse Queen. She basically adopts them as more or less the governors of New Korolstead and it becomes another Grazer city, like Rich, Queen's or North Post. There was a scenario where outlanders are asked to train some of the vendref in military tactics and they set up an Orlanthi shrine... I'll find it but there are a lot of good ties/subplots as you noted that the PC's could use here. Need to find more - do some digging on the Golden Bow Society... yet another rabbit hole! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajagappa Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 2 hours ago, Erol of Backford said: No one has messed with the Smoking Ruins for a couple hundred years. The PC's earn trust, help the locals open trade and even act as lieutenants of the Feather Horse Queen. Which begs the question - why didn't the FHQ and the Grazers open it up? The FHQ is arguably the most powerful Ernalda priestess in Dragon Pass. The Luminous Stallion King is the representative of Yelm on earth. What could the PC's do that they could not??? I can picture that our Smoking Ruins villain is: (spoilers ahead) Spoiler not only a powerful ZZ undead, but might even be the Shadow of the Luminous Stallion King (LSK). 1) That could mean that the magic of the LSK always fails against Vamargic the ZZ undead - the Sun cannot see the Dark so can never attack it, but can certainly be consumed by it (since ZZ mastered Fire). 2) That could mean that the presence of the LSK in the Smoking Ruins always summons Darkness. So even if you've "destroyed" the ZZ, unless you have done it both in body and in spirit, the ZZ revenant respawns in a new and equally dangerous form (and perhaps has already done so multiple times! Your PC's just dealt with the latest incarnation.) Or, the real evil is not Vamargic, but the Chaos Demon that bound ZZ to the Eye Necklace. And it's still there and now hunts down a PC (or friendly NPC) to enslave and begin the process all over again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erol of Backford Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 1 hour ago, jajagappa said: Which begs the question - why didn't the FHQ and the Grazers open it up? The FHQ is arguably the most powerful Ernalda priestess in Dragon Pass. The Luminous Stallion King is the representative of Yelm on earth. What could the PC's do that they could not??? Maybe she couldn't be bothered with it in the past, needs a new buffer from a potential invasion from the east or as you imply, it's much more dangerous than one would imagine and so it's simple enough for her to send a few stooges (PC's) there and see what happens? As always, more investigation is needed. Thanks Jaja. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
French Desperate WindChild Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 4 hours ago, Erol of Backford said: Isn't the Feathered Horse Queen the leader of the Grazers? She will have signed off on the redevelopment of the Smoking Ruins and be directly benefiting from the trade there. of course she is however, do you blindly follow your own leader or sometimes... you have doubt, critics, sometimes opposition ? that's the same in any society like pure horse people you may have factions or individuals who, even if they don't contest the FHQ leadership, want for their people, ... their pure people... or their own ambition something different that what the FHQ has decided. Some will just grumbble, some, even few will act secretely, or openly. Understand me, I m not saying the GM did a mistake by playing the FHQ granting the pc some lands and power. I say that some Grazelanders played by the GM may disagree with the FHQ played by the GM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erol of Backford Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 1 hour ago, French Desperate WindChild said: Some will just grumbble, some, even few will act secretely, or openly. Hell yes! With the Grazers its expected isn't it? The disgruntled/disagreeable Grazers would likely attack caravans coming-going from New Korolstead especially when they learn the PC's have been training vendref. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hemulaformis Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 On 6/26/2024 at 11:47 AM, Erol of Backford said: There was a scenario where outlanders are asked to train some of the vendref in military tactics and they set up an Orlanthi shrine... I'll find it but there are a lot of good ties/subplots as you noted that the PC's could use here. I believe the scenario you are referring to is David Dunham's "The Other Side of the Dragon" from "Gathering Thunder" (Sartar Rising, Volume 3). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erol of Backford Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 31 minutes ago, hemulaformis said: Gathering Thunder That's it, thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiningbrow Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 On 6/27/2024 at 2:13 AM, jajagappa said: Which begs the question - why didn't the FHQ and the Grazers open it up? The FHQ is arguably the most powerful Ernalda priestess in Dragon Pass. The Luminous Stallion King is the representative of Yelm on earth. What could the PC's do that they could not??? Perhaps because what the dragonewts did was either a) too scary for them to be bothered to deal with, or b) stopped Yelm's light from piercing the smoke. Or maybe someone tried a Divination first to Yelm, and got told not to go, and for some reason they decided that meant everybody, and not just that person doing the Divination... And it somehow created a taboo within the Grazers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajagappa Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 1 hour ago, Shiningbrow said: And it somehow created a taboo within the Grazers. A taboo certainly works, particularly if their association with the Fire Rune attracts the burning spirits. Of course, as an ancient Orlanthi holy site, the presence of Yelm worshippers there might attract a different class of ancient spirits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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