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French Desperate WindChild

Polaris, Rigsdal and me

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Restez à la maison

Hello all

I am thinking about a campaign I will start in few months.. after the so expected gagog (no pressure, do the best job you can, or I will become berserk)

(be free to comment if a part of my hypothesis is not canonical)

We are creating a background for one character based on a sartarite child from a noble family "given" as hostage to the lunar empire after the lunar victory.

  • The boy is a "guest" of a little noble dara hapan family in lunar homeland (where ?).
  • He is well educated : the empire goal is to prepare him to go back in sartar as a future lunar compliant clan leader
  • As he is well connected with fire rune, the dara hapan family was choosen according to the cult he may join, to teach him the right values and skills

A good candidate in my mind is Polaris :

  • noble -> good for the final expected role in sartar
  • officer / military so obedient to the hierarchy -> good for the final expected relationship with the empire (of course lunar empire wants him as a puppet)
  • rigsdal -> easier than Seven Mother  to be accepted by orlanthi sartarite (is it right ? at least lunars bet on it)

The game plan is of course the lunar plan will not be followed  (well in fact I don't know what is the true plan, who the character will betray ? the home land ? the lunar ? both ?) and of course a lot of relations would see him as a traitor in all cases

 

but I would like to know more about Polaris followers values

Is there a lot of difference with Yelmalio ?

What are the relationship with others cults (Yelm, Yelmalio, Seven mother, Chaos , Orlanth, ...) and other monsters (duck, troll, elf, woman, hunshen) ?

 

then Rigsdal. What I understand is Rigsdal is Polaris after some event. Good ! we have an event, the character leaves solar empire to sartar storm  kingdom.

But do the two cults accept themselves as the same cult ? Is it different of Yelmalio / Elmal relationship ?

I imagine that probably a "little" heroquest would be enough to be accepted as a rigsdal initiate renacting the polaris change ?

And what is the relationship between Orlanth and Rigsdal ? a neighbour autonomous  or another loyal servent (like Elmal) ?

 

thanks for your light !


 

 

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42 minutes ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

A good candidate in my mind is Polaris :

  • noble -> good for the final expected role in sartar
  • officer / military so obedient to the hierarchy -> good for the final expected relationship with the empire (of course lunar empire wants him as a puppet)
  • rigsdal -> easier than Seven Mother  to be accepted by orlanthi sartarite (is it right ? at least lunars bet on it)

Polaris is a reasonable choice, as it is a higher star cult.

The Rigsdal connection might be useful, as that is Polaris seen from the Orlanthi viewpoint, as long as he is not all uppity about Polaris being better than Rigsdal. The background would imply that he is being groomed, so would see the Rigsdal aspect as being important.

44 minutes ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

Is there a lot of difference with Yelmalio ?

They are rivals, in some ways.

Yelmalio is a sky God, Polaris is a Star God, so Yelmalio might be seen to outrank Polaris, but in actual fact I think that Polaris outranks Yelmalio.

Polaris was a good soldier cult until the Dragonkill wiped out most of the soldiers of Dara Happa, then Polaris became an officer cult. Now that Yanafal Tarnils has become the Officer Cult of the Lunar Empire, Polaris is the Officer Cult of the Solars. This makes it a rival to the Light Sons of Yemlaio, who are the Officers of the Sun Domers. So, I see them as being rivals, competing for similar territory. However, among the Sun Domers, Yelmalio is supreme and Polaris is second-fiddle.

48 minutes ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

What are the relationship with others cults (Yelm, Yelmalio, Seven mother, Chaos , Orlanth, ...) and other monsters (duck, troll, elf, woman, hunshen) ?

In my view: Associate and subservient to Yelm. Rival but friendly to Yelmalio. Rival but friendly to Yanafal Tarnils. Neutral to Seven Mothers. Enemy to Chaos. Maybe hostile to Orlanth, although Rigsdal is Friendly to Orlanth. Hostile to Trolls. Neutral to other Elder Races.

 

51 minutes ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

then Rigsdal. What I understand is Rigsdal is Polaris after some event. Good ! we have an event, the character leaves solar empire to sartar storm  kingdom.

But do the two cults accept themselves as the same cult ? Is it different of Yelmalio / Elmal relationship ?

It is probably similar to Elmal/Yelmalio, but not as extreme. Rigsdal is Polaris as seen by the Orlanthi, so followers of Rigsdal might have some myths that followers of Polaris won't know and vice versa. From myths come spells, so the cults might have slightly different Runespells and would definitely have different Associate Cults.

A worshipper of Rigsdal could probably repray spells at a Polaris Temple and vice versa.

53 minutes ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

I imagine that probably a "little" heroquest would be enough to be accepted as a rigsdal initiate renacting the polaris change ?

An adoption ceremony might be enough, to reenact the friendship between Rigsdal and Orlanth.

54 minutes ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

And what is the relationship between Orlanth and Rigsdal ? a neighbour autonomous  or another loyal servent (like Elmal) ?

I think somewhere between those. More than a servant and more than just a neighbour. However, I have not looked at Rigsdal for a while.

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34 minutes ago, soltakss said:

Polaris is a reasonable choice, as it is a higher star cult.

The Rigsdal connection might be useful, as that is Polaris seen from the Orlanthi viewpoint, as long as he is not all uppity about Polaris being better than Rigsdal. The background would imply that he is being groomed, so would see the Rigsdal aspect as being important.

They are rivals, in some ways.

Yelmalio is a sky God, Polaris is a Star God, so Yelmalio might be seen to outrank Polaris, but in actual fact I think that Polaris outranks Yelmalio.

Polaris was a good soldier cult until the Dragonkill wiped out most of the soldiers of Dara Happa, then Polaris became an officer cult. Now that Yanafal Tarnils has become the Officer Cult of the Lunar Empire, Polaris is the Officer Cult of the Solars. This makes it a rival to the Light Sons of Yemlaio, who are the Officers of the Sun Domers. So, I see them as being rivals, competing for similar territory. However, among the Sun Domers, Yelmalio is supreme and Polaris is second-fiddle.

In my view: Associate and subservient to Yelm. Rival but friendly to Yelmalio. Rival but friendly to Yanafal Tarnils. Neutral to Seven Mothers. Enemy to Chaos. Maybe hostile to Orlanth, although Rigsdal is Friendly to Orlanth. Hostile to Trolls. Neutral to other Elder Races.

 

It is probably similar to Elmal/Yelmalio, but not as extreme. Rigsdal is Polaris as seen by the Orlanthi, so followers of Rigsdal might have some myths that followers of Polaris won't know and vice versa. From myths come spells, so the cults might have slightly different Runespells and would definitely have different Associate Cults.

A worshipper of Rigsdal could probably repray spells at a Polaris Temple and vice versa.

An adoption ceremony might be enough, to reenact the friendship between Rigsdal and Orlanth.

I think somewhere between those. More than a servant and more than just a neighbour. However, I have not looked at Rigsdal for a while.

Rigsdal is just an Orlanthi name for Polaris/Polestar. This cult among the Orlanthi is minuscule but Polaris is known and recognised. I think Polaris is Neutral towards Orlanth.

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1 hour ago, soltakss said:

Yelmalio is a sky God, Polaris is a Star God, so Yelmalio might be seen to outrank Polaris, but in actual fact I think that Polaris outranks Yelmalio.

I agree with this. Polaris is the general of heaven, Yelmalio is the god of sun worshipers out in the sticks. 

I'm thinking the relationship between Polarians and Rigsdalings might be pretty amiable - as honor cults, they could agree that the other is doing a good job working loyally for a different master. A bit like Humakti from different cultures.

Edited by Akhôrahil
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12 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

I agree with this. Polaris is the general of heaven, Yelmalio is the god of sun worshipers out in the sticks. 

I'm thinking the relationship between Polarians and Rigsdalings might be pretty amiable - as honor cults, they could agree that the other is doing a good job working loyally for a different master. A bit like Humakti from different cultures.

I think the main difference between a member of the Polaris cult and the Rigsdal cult is that the Rigsdal cultist speaks Heortling, and the Polaris cultist speaks a Pelorian language (and probably has a nicer temple).

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4 hours ago, soltakss said:

They are rivals, in some ways.

Yelmalio is a sky God, Polaris is a Star God, so Yelmalio might be seen to outrank Polaris, but in actual fact I think that Polaris outranks Yelmalio.

Probably not helped by the fact that Polaris is sometimes the father of the Lightfore (Glorantha Sourcebook page 98)

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2 hours ago, Jeff said:

I think the main difference between a member of the Polaris cult and the Rigsdal cult is that the Rigsdal cultist speaks Heortling, and the Polaris cultist speaks a Pelorian language (and probably has a nicer temple).

Does Rigsdal have any of the dancing stuff? At least in the HW version, there is laser-focus on the night watchman part.

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8 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

Does Rigsdal have any of the dancing stuff? At least in the HW version, there is laser-focus on the night watchman part.

That might just because the focus there is on Rigsdal as a sub-cult of Elmal, and perhaps Rigsdal is worshiped in other contexts that emphasize things like the dance. Maybe he can be approached through Orlanth in that way?

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9 hours ago, Leingod said:

That might just because the focus there is on Rigsdal as a sub-cult of Elmal, and perhaps Rigsdal is worshiped in other contexts that emphasize things like the dance. Maybe he can be approached through Orlanth in that way?

He has a shared Elmal/Orlanth/Humakt subcult there, but I agree, it’s mostly Elmal.

Edited by Akhôrahil

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12 hours ago, Jeff said:

Rigsdal cultist speaks Heortling, and the Polaris cultist speaks a Pelorian language (and probably has a nicer temple).

Visibly different:

Rigsdal.jpg.9afd59a9f595c60b29e111969057ab82.jpgPolaris.jpg.1d52471587b32fc86fa3e860305c5ae4.jpg

 

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18 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

He has a shared Elmal/Orlanth/Humakt subcult there, but I agree, it’s mostly Elnal.

I'm betting a lot of "minor" deities usually get worshipped as subcults/associated cults. "Guy who sits at the top of the sky dome" included. Major Temples have a shrine to one associated cult and Great Temples have shrines to all of them (RQ:G 284)

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working deeper and deeper

I got two reasons for why was he chosen ?

- political reason : father did something wrong, or didn't please the local priest or declared he would support any rebelion

- bad luck reason : he is left handed, what a curse for the community ! (and why not an opportunity in the future to manage some ewf heritage)

 

But then, let's see how to become polaris initiate.

Should he follow some officer academy (as a polaris duty) or could he be teached by his retired "host" ?

As an officer student, does that mean he has to be in the lunar army for a long period ? In that case how many years are needed to not be considered as a deserter ?

And as officer what kind of weapons should he use ? 

  • the same than his unity because in lunar army officers are one among the unity (for example in the phallanx)
  • some dedicated authority weapon because in lunar army officers are different than the unity (for example next / behind the phallanx)

Of course there is also the mixed unity (i don't remember the word, sorry, I m so old now, my last hope is to read gagog before dying 😛) but it seems to me more a Yanafal Tarnils organization than a Polaris one

 

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