RuneQuest Glorantha Combat

[allenowen]

I'm reading the rules for Combat, and I have to say, it's very dynamic. Not to mention deadly. Weapons and shields can get destroyed, which makes me think of the combat scenes in Troy from 2004 and the duel in the 13th Warrior. 

And I haven't gotten to the mounted/chariot or phalanx rules yet.  Wow. For those who have played, just how lethal is combat? Give me some examples..

[Psullie]

yes combat is brutal, but survivable with planning. It really pays to think and act tactically - use magic and Passions to boost skills and damage, use ranged weapons when possible and alway have an exit strategy. 

[HreshtIronBorne]

Combat is epic and lethal. I love that the dice do all of the dramatization for me. When a crit to the head is rolled someone is gonna DIE like 9 times out of 10.

One of my favorite and most memorable momets was an Orlanthi wamna-be hero getting surprised by a "water dragon" after getting knocked into a body of water. Both the Dragon and PC had the exact same melee SR and DEX, Orlanthi rolled a special impaling blow to the head with a broadsword, the Dragon rolled a normal Bite to the right arm. The GM decided that the warrior stabbed the dragon in the roof of the mouth, all brilliantly cinematic like, while the Dragon sank its teeth into the Orlanthi's arm. The Orlanthi then cast Fly and kept himself from drowning. Rising from the water with a mained arm and a Dragon's head. 

This is what we call a RuneQuest moment in our group. When the dice tell a story so epic you can't beleieve it was random.

[Rodney Dangerduck]

Combat is lethal.  To be honest, I think crits play too large of a roll (sic).  Too many "climactic" duels are decided on the first round with a crit.  But don't have a great idea how to fix that.  And I think I'm in the minority regarding crits.

[Lordabdul]

1 hour ago, HreshtIronBorne said:

This is what we call a RuneQuest moment in our group. When the dice tell a story so epic you can't beleieve it was random.

Brilliant. Although... credit where credit's due: you still have a good GM and players around the table to be able to interpret the rolls in such epic ways.

[Dissolv]

I'll give you an example.  RQIII, relatively low magic Fantasy Europe campaign.  Three adventures in, our hearty Viking heroes discover the lost continent of........Griffin Island.   There they encounter and are attacked by savage man like creatures, the orcs.   Thorfin is a bit of an archer and starts shooting his self bow at the orcs, only to discover that they have quite good armor, much better than the leathers that the native tribesmen were sporting.  A few rounds into the combat and he just can't down his orc, who was shooting arrows into a thick melee, but is now shooting back at him.  Then Thorfin fumbles, and his bow string breaks! Grinning the orc puts an arrow right into his breastplate.  Not enough to kill him, but enough to cause him to bleed every round until treated. 

Leaking blood all over the field, disarmed, with no nearby allies and no time to spare, Thorfin rises to his full height, unsheathes the Greatsword on his back, lets loose a fearsome Viking howl, and charges the orc, who is now frantic at the size and ferocity of opponent.  He gets off another arrow at the charging Viking, then a second, but before he can nock and loose the third, Thorfin is upon him, and cuts him clean in half at the waist.  Only then does he pull out the arrow, and treats his wound himself with a fish bone needle, some thread, and plenty of alcohol. 

We didn't know it yet, but Thorfin went on to become the most pivotal person ever to set foot on Griffin Island,  and he started a long climb to glory that day.  The dice told his fate...........

 

 

[GAZZA]

3 hours ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

Combat is lethal.  To be honest, I think crits play too large of a roll (sic).  Too many "climactic" duels are decided on the first round with a crit.  But don't have a great idea how to fix that.  And I think I'm in the minority regarding crits.

Nah I'm with you, I dislike the randomness of RQ combat, especially since so many otherwise evenly matched combats come down to a lucky die roll. But I also don't have any ideas on how to fix it; the reason evenly matched combats come down to a lucky die roll is often because normal success/parry results in nothing happening, and even an unparried attack can bounce with decent armour and magic. Specials and especially criticals are often the only way to break that deadlock; throwing out criticals and specials means having to potentially change a lot more. (Which is not to say that I advocate for a more D&D style pile-o-hit-points option either; I like D&D just fine but I don't think all RPGs have to be D&D).

I always thought that Strengthening Enchantment from RQ3 helped; part of the issue with RQ combat is that compared parry armour and armour points, your hit points are a small fraction, so anything strong enough to even occasionally get through your armour will be an instajib if it is able to bypass your armour. Strengthening Enchantment allowed you to increase your number of hit points so this was no longer as big a discrepancy, so you could occasionally take a special without going instantly negative, and even take the odd critical without going instantly double negative.

But I believe a lot of players feel that the lethality of RQ combat is a feature, not a bug, and I cannot honestly say that I am entirely opposed to that either.

[Lysus]

12 hours ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

Combat is lethal.  To be honest, I think crits play too large of a roll (sic).  Too many "climactic" duels are decided on the first round with a crit.  But don't have a great idea how to fix that.  And I think I'm in the minority regarding crits.

I've never cared for critical hits in any system for this reason. There's also the fact that player characters face many more attack rolls over their lifespans than monsters and NPCs and are thus much more likely to eat a debilitating or instantly fatal crit at some point. 

[Lordabdul]

19 hours ago, GAZZA said:

Nah I'm with you, I dislike the randomness of RQ combat, especially since so many otherwise evenly matched combats come down to a lucky die roll. But I also don't have any ideas on how to fix it; the reason evenly matched combats come down to a lucky die roll is often because normal success/parry results in nothing happening

Not that I think it needs fixing, but one way you may want to investigate is to offer more tactical options. If you want evenly matched combats to not be resolved by luck, then they have to be resolved by better choices. This might mean ignoring the special and/or crit rules, and instead trying a mix of:

• Situational modifiers: give bonuses/penalties for cornering someone, flanking them, forcing them to retreat, getting the higher ground, jumping down on them from a balcony (and otherwise surprising them), etc.
• Roleplay modifiers: give bonuses/penalties for using extra skills to taunt the enemy, throw nearby objects or sand at them, or other extra actions that aren't just "I attack, I parry, I dodge".
• Long term modifiers: give bonuses/penalties for multi-round "investments", like for instance sacrificing SR or skill to get a bonus next round (to simulate "evaluating" the enemy, or doing feints, or whatever), etc.

Half of these things can actually be implemented with the rules as written. Others might require a few simple house rules.

To me, the only glaring problem with the combat rules is that it seems you can't move at all when you're engaged in melee... this is so wrong on many levels. I'm toying with the idea of trying out two simple house rules to fix this and help better implement my first point: (1) the winner in an exchange of blows may push (forward or diagonally) their opponent by 1 meter (and they follow by stepping forward also by 1 meter), and (2) stepping back by 1 meter (while staying engaged) gives you +20% for Parry or Dodge (but, similarly, your opponent follows, so this not about disengaging). This would let melee combats move around the scene a bit more, so to speak, bringing even more tactical options (jump over that rock! use that tree for cover! push your opponent towards the cliff!).

Edited April 22, 2020 by lordabdul

[davecake]

The single biggest thing for long term survival is to assume that, no matter what, at some point everyone might take a potentially lethal wound, and Heal Wound or Heal 6 or better will be necessary - from them, an allied spirit, an ally. A good party is a cautious party that prioritises getting every one out. My long term surviving PCs all joke about how many times they have a limb severed or maimed. That, and being prepared to surrender or negotiate rather than fighting to the bitter end, and sensibly avoiding combat when you can. 

 

Edited April 23, 2020 by davecake

[TomGoodfellow]

Encouraging imaginative play by rewarding ideas with mechanical bonuses helps a lot. I ran a game last night with the combat occurring next to a magma flow. It's not correct in the rules, but when a player wanted to maneuvre his troll opponent next to the magma I asked for a Battle roll. A special success followed by a knockback and suddenly his opponent was a Zorak Zoran Death Lord on fire. MGF.