Flintnail Dwarves

[Darius West]

1 hour ago, davecake said:

The difference between heretic and apostate is the more important question, I think (and it may be so for Brithini too). Heresy is disagreement with the Orthodox Decamony, but disagreement that is known to be valid as far as maintaining dwarf agelessness goes - it is a disagreement of philosophy and policy, but not of the fundamental nature of Mostali life. Apostasy, however, is departure from the Mostali way in practice, and results in aging. There may be degrees of apostasy - some apostates may still be very long live by human standards - but it's not clear into which category the Flintnail dwarves fall (they are certainly at least OpenHandist heretics, and seem to have some Individualist leanings too, at least in their beliefs about the afterlife). They seem to maintain caste restrictions, which is one big issue. And another issue is use of non-Mostali magic - I think general sorcery is fine, though frowned on by conservatives (and Silver dwarves do use a wider variety of sorcery than most dwarves), but spirit magic and Rune magic supposedly are not - whether using Pavis Rune magic is enough to make Flintnail dwarves apostate and aging is another open question.

Of course Ginkizzie seems to be unaging and a Priest of Pavis, but Ginkizzie is, once again, an exception. 

Maybe he's born with it (caste) maybe it's Maybeline (gained from Hero Questing). (sorry)😬 

[Erol of Backford]

18 hours ago, davecake said:

The question then becomes why aren't there ancient races of other living metals! Maybe not all wheels, but beings of living Quicksilver or Lead or Copper?

Silver Wheel Dancers? Copper Wheel Dancers?

[Joerg]

8 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Silver Wheel Dancers? Copper Wheel Dancers?

Don't be silly, next thing will be anthropomorphic ducks or sapient tapirs! 😉

 

[hipsterinspace]

On 2/15/2023 at 1:03 AM, davecake said:

Of the four rune spells that Flintnail cult had in RQ2 (Mold Stone, Shape Metal, Support, and Warrior of Stone) two are in RQG as 'Mostali Sorcery'.

These all appear in the Red Book of Magic, so I would assume the Flintnail cult still uses and offers initiates access to this approach.

[radmonger]

Those spells could be 'rock caste' magic, which as i understand it is basically the sorcerous equivalent of rune magic. if so, actual sorcery would be reserved to silver and gold dwarves. Like purist Western Zzaburi, the gold dwarves are responsible for teaching the other castes their pseudo-rune magic, using the missing sorcerous technique educate. For example educate separate earth stasis harmony gets you mold rock. By temporarily removing the stasis from the earth, it can be formed freely. Unlike theist rune magic, the one learning the spell doesn't have any deep mystical experience causing them to identify with the original source of the spell. They are merely present when it is cast.

The Pavis dwarves are a small and historically isolated community, so will only have a handful of gold caste specialists. They won't support the full range of caste magic, only a range of spells similar to that of a typical RQ2 Cult writeup. However, Flintnail was just the founder of this community; he is remembered, but not actively worshipped on a scale or intensity that would ordinarily justify a full cult writeup.

Edited February 16, 2023 by radmonger

[Erol of Backford]

56 minutes ago, radmonger said:

Those spells could be 'rock caste' magic, which as i understand it is basically the sorcerous equivalent of rune magic. if so, actual sorcery would be reserved to silver and gold dwarves.

I am still a fan of the PC's being able to learn any magic they are able to find a teacher for? If the PC's do quests for Dwarves then maybe they are taught Dwarven Sorcery or given a matrix of sorts. The whole idea of Runequest-Glorantha was that PC's were not specialized like D&D characters and everyone could learn any sort of magic.

Limiting sorcery to one caste or group detracts from the freedom that was Runequest of old. Some NPC will always teach the PC's for a price...

We had a campaign of old where some dissatisfied Flintnail Dwarves found themselves sponsored by PC's and were living in a subterranean lair cleaned out by PC's, one of whom was an Yelmalian Acolyte. So many good memories.

Words like limit, restricted and disallowed always have a way to be circumvented, especially by say a Dwarf who is open to the outside world and all it has to offer!

[radmonger]

Well, the word 'caste' implies restrictions. The thing is, your PCs are probably not orthodox Mostali, and so the caste rules don't apply to them.

Of course, for strict orthodox Mostali, the only appropriate interaction with outsiders is through iron caste magic. But those with openhandist tendencies may as easily teach (gold caste) as they would gift a magic item (silver caste). Not lightly, and perhaps with conditions and  restrictions.

But that merely means that only the PCs get to be special when they do it.

[metcalph]

The RBoM rune spell is Mold Stone which has no additional POW cost whereas the equivalent Maker Magic is Shape Rock.  Shape Metal likewise has no additional POW cost whereas Shape Iron does and is restricted to a specific metal.  I think the Mold Stone is magic that humans gain from worshipping Flintnail and that the Rock Dwarves still use their Maker Magic.  I am unsure how Flintnail manages to teach Shape Metal considering it's kinda outside his area of expertise.

The idea of dwarven equivalent of Malkioni caste magic as opposed to their described Maker Magic is an interesting one. I think it morely to be associated with Diamond than to be associated with the metals (as they already have the Maker Magics for that).  I believe the Dwarves in general would not have access to RQ sorcery and that the Silver Dwarves who do, don't like it as it conflicts with their belief that the Material World is the highest form of reality. 

[mfbrandi]

3 hours ago, radmonger said:

Unlike theist rune magic, the one learning the spell doesn't have any deep mystical experience causing them to identify with the original source of the spell. They are merely present when it is cast.

Hmmm … I wonder. We are told that the god is fully present in the caster — if a trickster Swallows something, then capital-T Trickster swallows it — but does that imply a moment of bliss for the caster? Maybe it is exactly the other way around: the deity gets to experience being a temporal entity for a moment … and the mortal is temporarily extinguished? Oh, but, hang on … 😉

(Now, do we add 1% to chance of illumination at Sacred Time for every rune spell cast? No? Well, it was worth a try.)

[jajagappa]

3 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

If the PC's do quests for Dwarves then maybe they are taught Dwarven Sorcery or given a matrix of sorts.

If they are Individualists or Open-handed, you may well luck out. 

But hope the Decamony doesn't find out otherwise, you'll be plagued to the end of days by nilmergs, gobblers, and worse!

3 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

The whole idea of Runequest-Glorantha was that PC's were not specialized like D&D characters and everyone could learn any sort of magic.

Yes, it's always been an RQ selling point.

And, yet, the magics aren't the same and don't come from the same mindset, so trying to master multiple may leave you with little beyond basic charms.  But, in my mind, that also makes sense and can leave you with some rather odd, but interesting characters.

[Erol of Backford]

1 hour ago, jajagappa said:

But, in my mind, that also makes sense and can leave you with some rather odd, but interesting characters.

A Basmoli that has a crossbow, uses sorcery, rides a horse, wears chainmail and wields a 2H sword for good measure as she is a duelist. Basically a knight raised in the Heortlands. She doesn't however like getting her nails dirty so she uses utensils while eating.

And of course she has a Dwarf bear-walker companion who Individualists or Open-handed ways has him training to become a shaman of sorts. He was asked to perform his rituals outside the walls of Pavis of course...

[Erol of Backford]

After dozens of page-turns through the HQ Pavis: Gateway to Adventure I never noticed the illustration of the Faceless Statue Fighting Waha!? p.30 (thank you Jaja and Mr. Brandi for sending me there)

Pavis controlled a stone golem that kicked Waha's bottom.