How much STR and DEX do you need to use a long spear one-handed?

[Ian Absentia]

8 minutes ago, Julian Lord said:

That is an outright violation of all of the mediaeval source material.

Because he lacked the necessary combination of STR and DEX to be a druid?  That is what we're still discussing, right?

!i!

[Julian Lord]

1 minute ago, Ian Absentia said:

Because he lacked the necessary combination of STR and DEX to be a druid?  That is what we're still discussing, right?

!i!

I cannot recall a single example in the literature of Merlin using a spear one-handed.

[SDLeary]

12 hours ago, Julian Lord said:

6th Century Western Europe was basically Christian, including both Britain and Germany.

Only in the urban areas. Once you got outside of the urban areas, the process of conversion was ongoing well into the 9th C. Why do you think Charlemagne had so much trouble with the Saxons, and had to finally chop down a tree to TRY and get them to acquiesce?

Britain at this point really didn't have "urban" areas, and of course the written records are scarce; so we can only speculate as to the actual penetration of Christianity.

SDLeary

[Shiningbrow]

13 hours ago, Ian Absentia said:

Because he lacked the necessary combination of STR and DEX to be a druid?  That is what we're still discussing, right?

!i!

Getting back to.the point... And leaving the sticky end behind?

[Julian Lord]

21 hours ago, SDLeary said:

Only in the urban areas.

No, there were some parts of Europe where paganism persisted a little longer than elsewhere, but it's not to do with rural v. urban (though that might be true of Britain specifically), but rather by proximity to the network of Roman travel & trade routes v. isolated & out of the way. So yes, in Britain that does mean a good deal of Scotland just for starters.

It did persist a bit longer in Germany and Scandinavia, and a lot longer in the Baltic. OTOH the German tribes that sacked Rome were Christians who originally set out on that expedition to demand integration into the Empire.

But paganism was dying in the 6th Century, and basically dead by the 7th Century in the majority of Western Europe. The closer you get to the Mediterranean, the fewer pagans you'd find, so there was also a North/South difference. The Germanic tribes that invaded Gaul and Iberia were Christians, unlike the Saxons who had invaded England. The depiction in The Last Kingdom of the Christian Latin/British and the pagan Anglo-Saxons is roughly true for England, but the latter had already started converting in the 6th Century, and had basically all converted by the 7th.

The British Isles were provincial and out of the way, and had been so even in Imperial times, but even so I think they were still majority Christian in the 6th Century. The "historic" Artus would have been a Christian from his Roman and British/Welsh origins.

[davecake]

On 5/26/2020 at 11:15 PM, Julian Lord said:

For comparison, a quarterstaff can just about be used one-handed, but you really do need to be very long-limbed to even try.

I'm certainly not long limbed enough to even try, but my experience with using a quarterstaff (or the Chinese equivalent thereof, physically much the same but not necessarily culturally) is that almost all the standard strikes and blocks with a staff tend to rely on having two points of contact. A very long limbed and strong person could, I guess, use a staff more or less like a really long mace, but it would be a quite distinctly different style. A lot of staff fighting technique relies on the idea that can quickly switch which end of it you are using to strike, without at any point leaving yourself open by no keeping it between yourself and your opponent. 

[SDLeary]

On 6/1/2020 at 6:38 PM, Julian Lord said:

No, there were some parts of Europe where paganism persisted a little longer than elsewhere, but it's not to do with rural v. urban (though that might be true of Britain specifically), but rather by proximity to the network of Roman travel & trade routes v. isolated & out of the way. So yes, in Britain that does mean a good deal of Scotland just for starters.

Putting it north of the wall seems a little far... I'd put it more on a line of the Fosse Way. That is to say the SE was probably predominantly Christian, being focused on what was left of the cities, and on the holdings of nobility... outside that we really have no info. To the north west of that line (which, oddly enough, lines up roughly with Llogyr/Logres), as you move out, it was probably  less Christian, and probably so for a while. Again though, there is simply not enough evidence to determine one way or the other.

Now enough of our digression (that I happily participate in)!! 😉 ... back to our regularly scheduled topic...

Using a long spear (roughly 2.5-3 meters) single handed can be done, you just have to choke-up on the shaft. I'd say no more than one additional point of STR, and perhaps two of DEX needed (compared to what is needed for a short spear). I might also adjust the strike rank of the spear when used in this way to account for the shorter reach. Now... this assumes that we are talking about different length spears with the same size head on them... say a somewhat standard small leaf head, with only shafts differing. If you are talking about a "hewing" or fencing spear with a head about the size of a dagger, then more strength to account for the greater mass at the end of the shaft.

An ancient "lance" would just be a long spear used from horseback, or a short pike held in both hands.

SDLeary

Edited June 3, 2020 by SDLeary
poor grammer

[jps]

On 5/26/2020 at 5:15 PM, Julian Lord said:

I'd rule a certain minimum SIZ as well as just STR and DEX alone.

For comparison, a quarterstaff can just about be used one-handed, but you really do need to be very long-limbed to even try.

A longspear is even longer.

I think the stat are not using SIZ because it’s for a mounted use typically for a charge, otherwise I would probably not allow a human-sized creature to use it one-handed.