Changing of tribe (mainly heortling)

[Kloster]

I know that a Sartarite character can change his clan, mainly by marriage, but is it possible to change tribe?

Is it possible to be 'adopted' by another tribe, and if yes, how would it be possible and how would it occur?

Is it possible to be 'adopted' by a clan of another tribe, and then enter said tribe, and how?

And lastly, a more RQG question, what would be/become the loyalty passion(s) of the character? Would he lose the previous ones, or would he keep them and gain new ones? What would be the scores of the new passions?

[Leingod]

Can't really help you with the passions and such, but as for tribe, generally speaking you probably won't directly change tribes, you'll just become part of a different clan and if that clan is part of a different tribe you're part of that tribe now, too. In Sartar, at least, the tribe isn't really a "top-down" entity that you'll seek to join directly. Unless you're going the specific route of becoming a part of the tribal king/queen's own household/retinue, in which case being a part of the king's household probably makes you more or less a member of that tribe. Especially if the king rewards you with land (like, say, being named Thane of Apple Lane).

[Eff]

As for RQG Passions, my immediate thought is that by default you'd pick up the new Loyalty Passion at 60% and lower your old Loyalty Passion some. At the very least, it should be below 80%, and if already lower than that... 10 points? Enough to keep the divided Loyalties on your sheet unless you take specific actions to alter them. 

Obviously, these are alterable by events. Truly burning your bridges could erase a Passion, while doing something to prove true loyalty as part of adoption should boost the new Passion. 

[jajagappa]

3 hours ago, Kloster said:

I know that a Sartarite character can change his clan, mainly by marriage, but is it possible to change tribe?

Is it possible to be 'adopted' by another tribe, and if yes, how would it be possible and how would it occur?

Is it possible to be 'adopted' by a clan of another tribe, and then enter said tribe, and how?

1) Yes. The easiest method is that clans from different tribes intermarry.  TCS has a bridge between the Colymar and the Cinsina where there is occasional marriage between the Orlmarth and the Red Cow.  I've used that in my campaign.  SKoH p.34 notes "People become clan members by birth, or join a clan by marriage or adoption."

2) Yes. The old HQG Clan Questionnaire had results for whether your clan had adopted others, and if so, who, and whether you treated them as equals or thralls.  Consider families displaced and fleeing from rebellions/Lunar oppression.  They will petition to join your clan (and, therefore, your tribe).  Or consider mercenaries "hired" by the tribal king as huscarls or bodyguards.  Either case should allow for adoption rites into the clan or tribe.  In the case of adoption, there is likely some ritual involved, perhaps swearing some oath, perhaps requiring for the leader of some bloodline to speak for and officially adopt you.  

3) Yes, and this is likely the standard route into the tribe, though as noted above, those working for the tribal king can likely be adopted into the tribe potentially without a clan. 

3 hours ago, Kloster said:

a more RQG question, what would be/become the loyalty passion(s) of the character? Would he lose the previous ones, or would he keep them and gain new ones? What would be the scores of the new passions?

That you've chosen to go through the Rite of Adoption says that you've elected a Loyalty to the new clan/tribe (possibly both).  I'd start that at 60%.

As for losing the prior Loyalties, what happened between them and the former clan?  If they were outlawed/exiled, then likely they feel no more loyalty to the old clan and it should be removed.  If their clan was effectively destroyed, then either they feel it is gone and there is nothing further to be loyal to, or they feel it can be resurrected at some point in the future and therefore the Loyalty remains.

Consider those from the Maboder clans/tribe.  The Maboder were destroyed, the clans scattered.  Many fled to the Cinsina or Torkani, and likely were adopted into one of the clans of those tribes.  They know show a Loyalty say to the Red Cow, but might still harken back to the days of the Maboder, and if the Lunars were gone,... and the Telmori vanquished,... then... that Loyalty might be reasserted.

[Kloster]

Thanks to all of you. Very helpful.

[Joerg]

The individual and the tribe are pretty much remote from one another by the clan layer. Unless one moved into the city of the tribal confederation, all business would be handled by the clan chieftain and his ring. Even the marriages.

Clans certainly have marriage relationships across tribal borders, especially for the sake of peacemaking or diplomacy, but also for ritual reasons (like Ernalsulva in Sartar: KIngdom of Heroes).

For clans to shift tribes does create a bit of a problem, with what we learned about tribal cattle (and possibly other herds) makes such a change a significant financial transfer.

It becomes weirder when the land apparently under the aegis of say the Clearwine temple to the Three Emerald Temple as in the case of the Zethnorings goes into the territory of the earth temple.

Likewise, I wonder how many of the Swan River valley clans turn to the Greenstone temple (founded by the Varmandi, then independent, now held by the Orlevings of the Malani tribe) rather than to Clearwine, and whether they combine that with veneration of Tarndisi.

For the Lunars to dictate such moves would be a special penalty tribute, but what about clans shifting allegiance without such external dictate? Could this happen?

[Bohemond]

It seems to me that tribal membership probably matters far less to most Sartarites than clan membership. The clan is a vital part of daily life for most Sartarites (the urban Sartarites might be a bit of an exception to this) and it influences them in all sorts of ways. The tribe, on the other hand, is a bit of an artificial construct that mostly helps different clans interact under problem circumstances. If you have a problem with another clan, you engage in raiding and feuding, and tribes just help keep that stuff to a manageable level. You participate in tribal activities once or twice a year at things like the tribal market, and you see the king or queen when they visit your tula, but if you're not an important person in your clan, you probably don't actually interact with the king or queen. 

[soltakss]

On 9/23/2020 at 8:31 PM, Kloster said:

I know that a Sartarite character can change his clan, mainly by marriage, but is it possible to change tribe?

Generally, you belong to a Tribe by belonging to a Clan. Your Clan belongs to a Tribe, so by joining the Clan you join the Tribe. By leaving your old Clan you leave your old Tribe.

On 9/23/2020 at 8:31 PM, Kloster said:

Is it possible to be 'adopted' by another tribe, and if yes, how would it be possible and how would it occur?

Anything is possible. You could be adopted by a whole Tribe and not be in a Clan. That would mean that Tribal laws apply to you but not Clan laws. You would be a very special case, though.

On 9/23/2020 at 8:31 PM, Kloster said:

Is it possible to be 'adopted' by a clan of another tribe, and then enter said tribe, and how?

Yes, by joining the Clan you automatically belong to the Tribe.

People get adopted by Clans all the time. Normally, it is through marriage or the results of marriage. sometimes it is because your own Clan has been destroyed, or a Clan has split and you have been taken in by your new Clan. Sometimes, wanderers join a Clan just be being around the Clan.

On 9/23/2020 at 8:31 PM, Kloster said:

And lastly, a more RQG question, what would be/become the loyalty passion(s) of the character? Would he lose the previous ones, or would he keep them and gain new ones? What would be the scores of the new passions?

You could still retain the old Loyalties, or you could lose them and gain new ones. Some people are torn between their old Clan and their new Clan. Some people have been driven out of their old Clan and turn Loyalty into Hate, so they rename the Passion.

I would handle this in-game, on a case by case basis, in consultation with the Players.

 

[Kloster]

1 hour ago, soltakss said:

Anything is possible. You could be adopted by a whole Tribe and not be in a Clan. That would mean that Tribal laws apply to you but not Clan laws. You would be a very special case, though.

I had not thought to that. Thanks for the insight.

1 hour ago, soltakss said:

Yes, by joining the Clan you automatically belong to the Tribe.

People get adopted by Clans all the time. Normally, it is through marriage or the results of marriage. sometimes it is because your own Clan has been destroyed, or a Clan has split and you have been taken in by your new Clan. Sometimes, wanderers join a Clan just be being around the Clan.

 

1 hour ago, soltakss said:

You could still retain the old Loyalties, or you could lose them and gain new ones. Some people are torn between their old Clan and their new Clan. Some people have been driven out of their old Clan and turn Loyalty into Hate, so they rename the Passion.

I would handle this in-game, on a case by case basis, in consultation with the Players.

Thanks.