Free INT - Sorcery

[davecake]

21 hours ago, Godlearner said:

You need an 18 POW to be a priest (and get +20% once there). Much easier to get from 17 to 18 then from 13.

And if you are trying to become a Rune Lord, having that extra +5% in multiple skill categories can really help - getting that last 5% from 85% to 90% is really difficult!

David

[Akhôrahil]

5 minutes ago, davecake said:

And if you are trying to become a Rune Lord, having that extra +5% in multiple skill categories can really help - getting that last 5% from 85% to 90% is really difficult!

At the same time, you need to accumulate 10 Rune Points as well for Rune Lord, and that will be pretty slow going at POW 17. Hence my preferred method of starting at 13, collecting POW for Rune Points, and then starting the rise towards 17/18. Some of my players think 13 is just too frustrating for spellcasting though, and prefer 15.

[davecake]

5 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

you need to accumulate 10 Rune Points as well for Rune Lord

Where does this come from? It is not part of the standard requirements (pg 280), or added by any cults I can see. 

[Godlearner]

8 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

At the same time, you need to accumulate 10 Rune Points as well for Rune Lord, and that will be pretty slow going at POW 17. Hence my preferred method of starting at 13, collecting POW for Rune Points, and then starting the rise towards 17/18. Some of my players think 13 is just too frustrating for spellcasting though, and prefer 15.

Actually no. There is no requirement for the Rune Pool as listed in RQG p280. A Rune Lord needs to have been an Initiate for 5 years, have a CHA 18, and five skills at 90% (two of those skills should weapon skills) 

[Godlearner]

Which brings us to an interesting point in the rules. As there seems to  be a president for using species MAX INT for Free INT in.

"A Rune Lord always resists magic with their species maximum POW and not their current POW."

Perhaps as one advances in their sorcery, Magi level for example this can happen.

 

[Akhôrahil]

3 minutes ago, Godlearner said:

Actually no. There is no requirement for the Rune Pool as listed in RQG p280. A Rune Lord needs to have been an Initiate for 5 years, have a CHA 18, and five skills at 90% (two of those skills should weapon skills) 

Huh, no idea where that came from, then! Never mind me. 🙂 Although I'd still say you want those Rune Points either way - you will be a sad Rune Lord at 3-5 Rune Points, and since the requirements are just that - the minimum requirements - someone more holy may get the job ahead of you if you skimp. Something like 10 Rune Points is probably the expected amount, even if it's not a prereq.

[Godlearner]

Just now, Akhôrahil said:

Huh, no idea where that came from, then! Never mind me. 🙂 Although I'd still say you want those Rune Points either way - you will be a sad Rune Lord at 3-5 Rune Points, and since the requirements are just that - the minimum requirements - someone more holy may get the job ahead of you if you skimp. Something like 10 Rune Points is probably the expected amount, even if it's not a prereq.

Most of the time what I seen in play are Rune Lord - Acolytes. Requirements for that are much less POW. This way you can build up.

[jajagappa]

7 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

yes we can !

proof:

And Humakt gift #4: Increase a non-raiseable characteristic by 1 point.

My current Humakti character got this twice and used to bump up SIZ twice.

 

[davecake]

1 hour ago, Godlearner said:

A Rune Lord needs to have been an Initiate for 5 years, have a CHA 18, and five skills at 90% (two of those skills should weapon skills) 

And those are the standard requirements, which not all cults require. A few cults ignore the CHA requirement, for example, or have different requirements for skills. Some add extra requirements. 

[davecake]

1 hour ago, Akhôrahil said:

Although I'd still say you want those Rune Points either way - you will be a sad Rune Lord at 3-5 Rune Points, and since the requirements are just that

You'd be a beginning Rune Lord who has just qualified, I'm sure everyone expects you to get better from there. But being a master of 5 skills is nothing to sneeze at, and most are also CHA 18, and so good effective leaders too. 

1 hour ago, Akhôrahil said:

someone more holy may get the job ahead of you if you skimp.

Rune Lords are the temporal leaders, not the magical leaders, in the usual case - or for cults where Rune Lords are also the main magical leaders, the cult is usually one where practical leadership is more important than magical. The chances a cult will turn down someone with the skills to be a Rune Lord because they aren't way above the minimum for magic in addition are quite small (well, except for those weirdoes in the Seven Mothers and those like them, who require a potential Rune Lord to pass the Test Of Holiness, but that implies they want their Rune Lords to have a high POW, not high Rune Points, anyway). 

[Akhôrahil]

9 minutes ago, davecake said:

Rune Lords are the temporal leaders, not the magical leaders, in the usual case - or for cults where Rune Lords are also the main magical leaders, the cult is usually one where practical leadership is more important than magical. The chances a cult will turn down someone with the skills to be a Rune Lord because they aren't way above the minimum for magic in addition are quite small (well, except for those weirdoes in the Seven Mothers and those like them, who require a potential Rune Lord to pass the Test Of Holiness, but that implies they want their Rune Lords to have a high POW, not high Rune Points, anyway). 

I'm not sure whether supply or demand is the more limiting factor for Rune Lords - they cost quite a bit to keep in business. I agree you wouldn't turn down someone qualified if you're looking to fill a position, but if there are more applicants than positions for them, the people in charge would surely be looking for the best qualified, and Rune Points will be an important factor here. I would assume that in many cults, there are more people qualifying for Rune Lord than can actually fit in the structure - I could easily imagine that there are bunches of veteran, qualifying Storm Bull initiates competing for far fewer Storm Khan positions.

This is one advantage for God-Talkers - the temple isn't likely to turn you down when they don't need to feed you.

[Godlearner]

Quote

best qualified, and Rune Points will be an important factor here. I would assume that in many cults, there are more people qualifying for Rune Lord than can actually fit in the structure - I could easily imagine that there are bunches of veteran, qualifying Storm Bull initiates competing for far fewer Storm Khan positions.

If there are limited number of positions, but I can see in many cases that may not be the case and the fact that they do not have a high rune pool makes them useful and somewhat expendable as lower level leaders for the cult.

[French Desperate WindChild]

20 minutes ago, Godlearner said:

If there are limited number of positions,

the "if" depends on your glorantha

 

for example "if" you consider rune lord as social position in a community -> no place available , no promotion; one place available, the most holy candidate (= rune pool) or the best friend of the leaders / decision maker

[davecake]

14 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

I agree you wouldn't turn down someone qualified if you're looking to fill a position, but if there are more applicants than positions for them

How often does it happen in your games that someone has 5 skills above 90%, and a CHA of 18? So often that you think the temples can afford to pick and choose? 

And remember - the amounts of Rune Points you see for PCs are not assumed to be representative of the whole population. Most have less. 

A Rune Lord with a limited number of Rune Points is probably just a normal beginning Rune Lord. Sure, many will have a lot more - up to their CHA -  but that is because most Rune Lords expect to keep adventuring after that point for many years. Many may, rather than pushing the POW down, pushing it up to 18 POW and become Rune Lord-Priests for that sweet +20% (not the highest possible, but decent), and keep that POW up just in case they need to DI and it declines precipitoiusly. 

12 minutes ago, Godlearner said:

the fact that they do not have a high rune pool makes them useful and somewhat expendable as lower level leaders for the cult.

It is so much easier to get an extra few Rune Points than it is to master 5 skills. They aren't expendable - they are a precious resource that you try to keep alive!

[davecake]

29 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

I would assume that in many cults, there are more people qualifying for Rune Lord than can actually fit in the structure - I could easily imagine that there are bunches of veteran, qualifying Storm Bull initiates competing for far fewer Storm Khan positions.

I make the opposite assumption for Rune Lords, especially with the CHA requirement (I wouldn't be surprised if there are quite a few Humakti for home that is the hardest requirement). It is hard to qualify, and cults are usually thrilled to have one. If the cult has more candidates than the expect, usually that just means they equip them less well, but living expenses are not a big problem. 

[Kloster]

2 hours ago, Godlearner said:

Actually no. There is no requirement for the Rune Pool as listed in RQG p280. A Rune Lord needs to have been an Initiate for 5 years, have a CHA 18, and five skills at 90% (two of those skills should weapon skills) 

There is no requirement on the Rune Pool, but you need 11 RP to use safely the DI Runelord way (without risking losing POW).

[Godlearner]

Quote

There is no requirement on the Rune Pool, but you need 11 RP to use safely the DI Runelord way (without risking losing POW).

Yes, but you do not HAVE to use it and if you do, you will get to below that sooner than later.

[Akhôrahil]

1 hour ago, davecake said:

I make the opposite assumption for Rune Lords, especially with the CHA requirement (I wouldn't be surprised if there are quite a few Humakti for home that is the hardest requirement). It is hard to qualify, and cults are usually thrilled to have one. If the cult has more candidates than the expect, usually that just means they equip them less well, but living expenses are not a big problem. 

Example: Light Son of Yelmalio has "if an opening exists" in Rune Lord descriptions - this indicates that it's non-trivial factor (otherwise, why even mention it?). How often? No idea - there's no system to tell how rapidly NPCs advance (if they used PC rules, people would qualify all over the place, but they very likely don't).

[jajagappa]

1 hour ago, davecake said:

usually that just means they equip them less well, but living expenses are not a big problem. 

And if living expenses are a problem, then you send them out on "important" missions that require others to host them and that hopefully result in some further gain to the temple to cover subsequent expenses.

[Kloster]

2 hours ago, Godlearner said:

Yes, but you do not HAVE to use it and if you do, you will get to below that sooner than later.

No, you only lose 1 permanently. The others (the 1D10) are recovered normally. This is how you get from 13 to 18 INT with 8 POW.

[davecake]

11 hours ago, Kloster said:

There is no requirement on the Rune Pool, but you need 11 RP to use safely the DI Runelord way (without risking losing POW).

The nature of the Rune Lord benefits are such that the Rune Lord can, when things go well, and if they have invested and kept available enough magical resources, DI without risk of permanent loss, which is a huge benefit. The nature of the Rune Lord role is such that they can seldom count on things going well for long enough to make that something they can rely on. 

[Kloster]

1 hour ago, davecake said:

DI without risk of permanent loss

Completely right, but you still loose 1 RP (1st step of the DI).

[Shiningbrow]

16 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

At the same time, you need to accumulate 10 Rune Points as well for Rune Lord, and that will be pretty slow going at POW 17. Hence my preferred method of starting at 13, collecting POW for Rune Points, and then starting the rise towards 17/18. Some of my players think 13 is just too frustrating for spellcasting though, and prefer 15.

 

16 hours ago, davecake said:

Where does this come from? It is not part of the standard requirements (pg 280), or added by any cults I can see. 

 

16 hours ago, Godlearner said:

Actually no. There is no requirement for the Rune Pool as listed in RQG p280. A Rune Lord needs to have been an Initiate for 5 years, have a CHA 18, and five skills at 90% (two of those skills should weapon skills) 

 

Perhaps thinking of Rune Priests - "Possess at least 5 Rune points dedicated to the god." (p286)

RQ3 required Rune Priests to have 10 points of Divine Magic.

[Shiningbrow]

16 hours ago, Godlearner said:

Which brings us to an interesting point in the rules. As there seems to  be a president for using species MAX INT for Free INT in.

"A Rune Lord always resists magic with their species maximum POW and not their current POW."

Perhaps as one advances in their sorcery, Magi level for example this can happen.

 

Possibly, but not a real "precedent", as the resisting at Max POW is specifically stated as the god making up the difference to defend their RL - so definitely not the same reason, and definitely not really related.

[Shiningbrow]

15 hours ago, davecake said:

And those are the standard requirements, which not all cults require. A few cults ignore the CHA requirement, for example, or have different requirements for skills. Some add extra requirements. 

And not all cults have Rune Lords anyway...