"Time" in the Underworld

[Snugz]

Hi, I am wondering how heroquesters deeper in the Underworld/Hells would perceive "time" (small 't'; any meaning; not the big Arachne Solara concept). In the Sky Realm it's easy, seeing the stars and other bodies scuttle about. But what about in Hell? I imagine Yelm becomes visible as a smouldering wreck or something that screams through each night until it falls to ashen silence, and thus would be visible from many places? Maybe "weather" like the Dehori show some cyclical daily patterns? Relevant to me IMG right now as the Boat Planet passes thru for ~4 days and I don't know what a "day" really means in Hell, except that it must correspond in some (loose?) way to Middle-World time.

[simonh]

When Yelm the Burner arrived in the underworld, his fiery rays penetrated so far that the Trolls emigrated en masse to the surface world. I imagine Yelm performs some sort of procession through the underworld, similar to the way the Egyptians depicted Ra travelling on a boat, but maybe on a palanquin carried by demi-gods, or maybe a chariot. A worshiper of Yu-Kargzant will see something different from a Yuthuppan nobleman.

Edited September 22, 2021 by simonh

[jajagappa]

1 hour ago, Snugz said:

I am wondering how heroquesters deeper in the Underworld/Hells would perceive "time" (small 't'; any meaning; not the big Arachne Solara concept).

No, IMO they do not.  Including any reckoning of Time within the Underworld I think loses its sense of being endless.  It is a place where all perceptions of "reality" are lost.  You trudge endlessly across the Plains of Black Ash - you have no perception of any progress, any change whatsoever.  Giant shadows roll across the bleak landscape, but do they last a minute, an hour, a day, or a year?  No one knows, you can't tell.

2 hours ago, Snugz said:

Relevant to me IMG right now as the Boat Planet passes thru for ~4 days and I don't know what a "day" really means in Hell, except that it must correspond in some (loose?) way to Middle-World time.

I think in this case, it becomes a passage through important "events" or perhaps "branches" of the Dark River of Hell, or perhaps pass through each of the Four Hells.

You come to the Burning Lake and find the "trail" of dead Yelm, still burning, ever-burning.  The Boat Planet must find a way to cross it.

You reach the Still Sea in which the ghosts of oathbreakers are trapped and held fast.  Have any on board broken oaths?  Then the tentacles of the Doom Serpent begin to reach up to seize hold of the entire ship.

Etc.  In this sense, it is like the events of a Heroquest, but with periods where they seem to make no passage, no headway.  Rowing endlessly across the Still Sea, perhaps even finding themselves "beached" within the Plain of Black Ash and they must endlessly tow the ship across it.

[Sir_Godspeed]

Probably depends WHERE in the Underworld. It's such a diverse place.

[Alex]

6 hours ago, Snugz said:

Hi, I am wondering how heroquesters deeper in the Underworld/Hells would perceive "time" (small 't'; any meaning; not the big Arachne Solara concept). In the Sky Realm it's easy, seeing the stars and other bodies scuttle about. But what about in Hell? I imagine Yelm becomes visible as a smouldering wreck or something that screams through each night until it falls to ashen silence, and thus would be visible from many places? Maybe "weather" like the Dehori show some cyclical daily patterns? Relevant to me IMG right now as the Boat Planet passes thru for ~4 days and I don't know what a "day" really means in Hell, except that it must correspond in some (loose?) way to Middle-World time.

Good and tricky questions!  The concept's very hard, because I think it's pretty sure time (any sense) doesn't work at all like the mundane variety anywhere in the otherworld -- sky realm included, as a rule -- and even less so in the underworld.  But it's also pretty important, as if you're ritually much less physically in the underworld, you're in some stronger or weaker sense magically dead.  You want to fix that soonish, or it'll become a permanent condition.

I think a key part is that you have to bring your own map -- the myths you're seeking to interact with.  They provide a number of dangers and challenges, but they're better than the alternative, which is a featureless void of constant and continual unknown danger.  You wont necessarily see Yelm or the Boat Planet show up like clockwork in the way they do in the mundane sky, but if your myth foresees an interaction with one of those, that'll happen if your quest is being done correctly.  (Slightly outcome-biased way of looking it, of course!)  No heroquest ever goes entirely predictably, of course, so just because you didn't plan on meeting a particular entity doesn't necessarily mean you won't!

If the questers are Boat Planet passengers, then they'd tend to experience a structure similar to the BP's "own" myth.  Though as with all HQs, with the bringing their own baggage to proceedings...

[Joerg]

IMO time in Hell manifests as growing hunger.

Edited September 23, 2021 by Joerg

[Alex]

8 hours ago, Joerg said:

IMO time in Hell manifests as growing hunger.

Going native!

[soltakss]

For me, it depends on how you are HeroQuesting.

If you are HeroQuesting within Time, so you are just physically going to the Underworld, then time behaves normally. It passes but unless you have a way of measuring it you won't know how long has passed.

If, however, you have gone to the God Time, then time passes as effectively Dream Time. You can skip from one point to another, or can spend what seems like years at one point. You could go through all of the Lightbringers Quest and emerge two weeks after you started, even though it seems to take years.

[Ali the Helering]

MGF my man, always  MGF