What is a.... fetch... allied spirit... familiar?

[Shiningbrow]

And can you have more than 1 of those?

Coming from a thread discussion, where it's been suggested that you can't have more than one of those (part of "Gloranthan cosmology").

I disagree, as I see those 3 things as very different entities.

A fetch is an actual part of yourself - a part that is on the spirit plane, and can be awakened (so, you're awakening the real 'spirit' part of yourself - even though that doesn't make sense when you have the ability to discorporate 😕).

An allied spirit is exactly that - a spirit sent by your deity (or greater spirit) to help you on your ways. It's effectively a permanent Mindlink (not that this spell exists anymore).

And, lastly, a familar - a being (either spirit or mundane world creature) that you give bits of yourself in order to create a bond, again similar to a permanent Mindlink. But, as far as RQ3 was concerned, you could have more than 1 familiar (but you lose the connections).

 

So, if you can't have more than 1 (without great heroics), then why not? And how are they different (if they are), or how are they essentially the same thing (if they are)?

(And I really hate the "just because" or "It's too OP")

[Kloster]

There is nothing as a familiar in RQG. Those were what defined a sorceror in RQ3 (You needed to create your 1st familiar to become a full fledge sorceror), and you could have several.

[Kloster]

31 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

Coming from a thread discussion, where it's been suggested that you can't have more than one of those (part of "Gloranthan cosmology").

I disagree with this assumption because some cults have shaman/priest, and those have a Fetch (as Shaman), and, for me, can have an allied spirit (as Priest). Waha is an example.

Edited June 23, 2022 by Kloster

[Kloster]

31 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

An allied spirit is exactly that - a spirit sent by your deity (or greater spirit) to help you on your ways. It's effectively a permanent Mindlink (not that this spell exists anymore).

Agreed.

[David Scott]

31 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

And can you have more than 1 of those?

Yes.

But you would need to look at the context. At the moment in the CR we don't have any shaman-priests that have access to allied spirits (Daka Fal - none, Waha, Khans only). But any shaman, priest or sorcerer could make a familiar - let's call them what they are under RQG - Awakened Beasts (W&E page). I will assume for brevity that there is a sorcerous & spirit based ritual for this too.

If we move on to the cults in the Bestiary, it's possible for a shaman-priestess of Kyger Litor to have a fetch and an allied spirit (from the upcoming CoT), allied spirits are put into giant beetles.

Then it's entirely possible for a KL shaman-priestess to have an awakened creature, the only caveat I would have is that during the awakening ritual, that the fetch must approve the deal as per Establishing a Spirit Shrine, shaman, page 378. It's got a 90% chance of success, however I feel this is a good barrier in keeping with the shaman and fetch's relationship. 

Other than Kiger Litor, I haven't looked at any of the other shaman-priest cults.

The God Learner's clearly had the ritual sorcery to create their own fetches and allied spirits for experimentation. Graft Fetch and Split Soul likely were likely extended to last years or the sorcerer sacrificed POW to make the ritual permanent. Steal Allied spirit and Create divine animal/object we likely also used and as with the former perished with their inventors.

[Shiningbrow]

2 minutes ago, David Scott said:

But any shaman, priest or sorcerer could make a familiar - let's call them what they are under RQG - Awakened Beasts (W&E page)

Well, I was trying to keep the term 'familiar' to only refer to sorcery, as at least in RQ3 the process for getting one was quite different to either fetches or allied spirits.

I wasn't including 'awakened beast', as it doesn't seem to have the Mindlink (sharing of MPs and spells), whereas the others (including sorcerous familiars) can/do.

 

7 minutes ago, David Scott said:

The God Learner's clearly had the ritual sorcery to create their own fetches and allied spirits for experimentation. Graft Fetch and Split Soul likely were likely extended to last years or the sorcerer sacrificed POW to make the ritual permanent. Steal Allied spirit and Create divine animal/object we likely also used and as with the former perished with their inventors

Where's all this from? Especially the spells...

[Brian Duguid]

Telmor would be the other cult in the Bestiary of interest to this, as it has shamans who are also Priests; although I guess theoretically you could have an Aldryami shaman who also qualified as a Wood Lord so would have both a fetch in the spirit plane and also an allied spirit in their elf bow.

Personally, I'm taking the view that Hsunchen shaman-priests *don't* get Allied Spirits, but that's essentially a house rule as these are (relatively) minor cults and shamanhood is powerful enough in those communities without matching the power level of a great deity like Kyger Litor.

Official clarification on that point would be welcome.

Edited June 23, 2022 by Brian Duguid
Edited for clarity of wording

[Godlearner]

1 hour ago, Kloster said:

There is nothing as a familiar in RQG.

My personal opinion is that familiars are what Malkioni call their allied spirits. There may be some differences as to benefits and abilities these have vs. the "regular" allied spirits from Theist cults.d

[French Desperate WindChild]

50 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

Where's all this from? Especially the spells...

with the godlearners, lost until some fool will find/recreate them 😛

 

 

following the path you open with this thread, we are always talking about shaman (-priest) with a cult / spiritual role for a community.

but sometimes, in particular among pc, shaman may have no community to manage/lead. For example Enkala in the white bull campaign. She is a shaman, ok she is building the white bull spirit cult however she has not really any community to take care of.

So my question, now we now a shaman may have allied spirit (or more) if good reason...

What does the 90% time  requirement for a shaman ? Is it the time dedicated to the community (then you cannot spent more than 10% in adventure (except if it is for your community spirit health) ? or is it time dedicated to spirit deals (then you can do what you want as a shaman, as long as you visit spirits)

Edited June 23, 2022 by French Desperate WindChild

[David Scott]

1 hour ago, Shiningbrow said:

Well, I was trying to keep the term 'familiar' to only refer to sorcery, as at least in RQ3 the process for getting one was quite different to either fetches or allied spirits.

I wasn't including 'awakened beast', as it doesn't seem to have the Mindlink (sharing of MPs and spells), whereas the others (including sorcerous familiars) can/do.

As I said

1 hour ago, David Scott said:

I will assume for brevity that there is a sorcerous & spirit based ritual for this too.

I'd just assume that the sorcerous version does that, depending on the ritual.

1 hour ago, Shiningbrow said:

Where's all this from? Especially the spells...

The top of my head. It's very easy to make up sorcery spells in my experience.

[David Scott]

22 hours ago, Brian Duguid said:

Telmor would be the other cult in the Bestiary of interest to this, as it has shamans who are also Priests; although I guess theoretically you could have an Aldryami shaman who also qualified as a Wood Lord so would have both a fetch in the spirit plane and also an allied spirit in their elf bow.

Okay so here is the rundown of all cults in the Q&A:

Quote

In the Core Rules, Daka Fal, and Waha, have shaman-priests, while Golden Bow Shaman are not shaman-priests.

In the Bestiary, Aldrya, Kyger Litor, Mallia, Telmor and Thed have shaman-priests.

Edited June 24, 2022 by David Scott

[Brian Duguid]

Thanks David, that ticks all the boxes for me.

[Joerg]

Greg once talked about the spiritual organ that a practitioner would develop. A shaman would grow it into the fetch that creates their permanent presence on the Spirit Plane, a theist would develop it to manifest (part of) their soul in the Gods World managing the energies passed on by the deity from the source through their runes, and a sorcerer would attune their organ (no idea how it was called at the time) to manage the flow of energies themselves to impose their will on the world using the knowledge of magical procedures aka spells. (Or alchemy, or mechanics, or architecture...)

A theist allied spirit is an entity merging with the spiritual organ connecting to the Gods World, manifesting it in the world.