BRP Western

[Rurik]

... but I'd like to play out something that felt like Deadwood or The Long Riders.

:shocked:

Have you seen the Long Riders recently? It has a gritty feel for sure - until the gunplay starts. It is the epitome of over the top hollywood action - guns that never need reloading, taking a gazillion gunshots, jumping horses through windows. I more recent movie it reminds of is Heat, also very gritty and 'realistic' seeming until the gunplay starts, then it is over the top.

That being said, Long Riders is one of my favorite Westerns, I was just a bit taken back when it was proposed as realistic western.

Unforgiven is probably the best example I can think of from the movies. The Grey Fox is good too - though it is as much a drama as a western, and of course Deadwood for a series.

Myself, I think the Spaghetti Western would be a fun genre to game. Gritty but still with some of the 'fun' tropes of the genre.

[drohem]

Unforgiven (the Clint Eastwood version) is my favorite western of all time. Down to earth and gritty. Little Bill Dagget, William Munny, and English Bob are iconic western characters, but weren't larger than life Hollywood cut-outs.

"Killing a man is a hell of thing. You take all he's got, and all he's gonna have." - Bill Munny.

[Atgxtg]

Unforgiven (the Clint Eastwood version) is my favorite western of all time. Down to earth and gritty. Little Bill Dagget, William Munny, and English Bob are iconic western characters, but weren't larger than life Hollywood cut-outs.

"Killing a man is a hell of thing. You take all he's got, and all he's gonna have." - Bill Munny.

I like the move, but I think that it really draws heavily on Eastwood's, past persona. What makes the film work is that the audience can believe that Eastwood's good natured pig farmer can in fact become the gruff killing machine that he portrayed in his earlier films.

That film wouldn't have worked without an old actor who could still portray a menacing tough guy. Eastwood is one of the few who can play a "broken down" old man and "death walks the earth" and make them both believable.

Not to many other big name "tough guy" actors could have pull that off.

[drohem]

Well, it was Eastwood's baby. He wanted to portray a western character as they really were, and not like the past roles he played in the Hollywood westerns of the past, which weren't real western characters. The real western history was full of characters like Little Bill, English Bob, and Bill Munny.

[Atgxtg]

Well, it was Eastwood's baby. He wanted to portray a western character as they really were, and not like the past roles he played in the Hollywood westerns of the past, which weren't real western characters. The real western history was full of characters like Little Bill, English Bob, and Bill Munny.

Oh they are still over the top, especially Eastwood's character. He did say he wanted to poke a little fun at his old personna. But that was the point. The west portrayed in the film isn't quite real, but real enough for a good film.

[drohem]

Well, come on, it's still Hollywood, right?

[Atgxtg]

BTW, I wish I could understand what people were thinking when they did the firearm damages for CoC. The Martini-Henry doing more damage than a 7.62?

Yeah, it's a fat bullet with 123% more mass (480grains/15.4=31g vs. 215gr/13.9), but there is a difference of around 25% in Muzzle Energy. I wonder if they used Momentum rather than Muzzle Energy for damage?

Yeah, I'm working on the weapons chart.

[Simlasa]

:shocked:

Have you seen the Long Riders recently? It has a gritty feel for sure - until the gunplay starts.

Got me there, I haven't seen it in years... and don't much remember the actual shooty bits.

I was mostly thinking of the parts where the Youngers were all laid up in hospital after getting shot up... surprisingly Cole survives. It seems like a lot of the deaths in the film were some time after receiving the wound.

Regardless of the cinematic gunplay I think it has a really 'plausible' feel to it... where violence is not something to be entered into lightly.

Another recent one I liked was 'Open Range'... and usually I discare for the Costner. The big gunfight at the end is pretty tense... lots of sneaking around.

[Nightshade]

Sorry if this was already was covered (I'm being a lazy bum and just skimming) but I think in many cases you're going to run into a problem where people will expect this to be a genre with a fair bit of gunplay, and in a "straight" version where you have no paranormal abilities or advanced technology, that's probably going to be unacceptably deadly if I had to guess.

[Atgxtg]

Sorry if this was already was covered (I'm being a lazy bum and just skimming) but I think in many cases you're going to run into a problem where people will expect this to be a genre with a fair bit of gunplay, and in a "straight" version where you have no paranormal abilities or advanced technology, that's probably going to be unacceptably deadly if I had to guess.

Oh yeah. IMO the setting would really need to use one of the Luck Rule/Hero Point ideas to be viable. Otherwise the first shootout with 1d10+2 pistols and no armor will wipe out a lot of PCs.

I am thinking of adapting the Luck rule from Boot Hill 3rd edition. When a character takes a Mortal wound (it inflicts enough damage to kill them) they get to make a Luck roll. If successful the wound is reduced to 1 hit point (and the character marks off a POW point-so they can't pull this stunt all day long).

That would take the edge off without spoiling the setting.

[Rurik]

Since MP have no other reason in a (non - supernatural) western you could use them as a form of luck points.

I think a mechanic similiar to RQ Divine Intervention might work. Roll a d20 and if it is less than your MP you get a re-roll or convert a hit to a miss or whatnot, and lose MP equal to the roll. For even more cinematic games use a d10 instead.

MP could come back once a day, or once a week, or once a gunfight, or whatever the GM thinks is right based on how much he wants to encourage gunfighting.

Though personally I don't mind a really deadly western game. It encourages roleplay and outsmarting your enemies and ambushes and shooting people in the back.

[Atgxtg]

Since MP have no other reason in a (non - supernatural) western you could use them as a form of luck points.

I think a mechanic similiar to RQ Divine Intervention might work. Roll a d20 and if it is less than your MP you get a re-roll or convert a hit to a miss or whatnot, and lose MP equal to the roll. For even more cinematic games use a d10 instead.

MP could come back once a day, or once a week, or once a gunfight, or whatever the GM thinks is right based on how much he wants to encourage gunfighting.

Though personally I don't mind a really deadly western game. It encourages roleplay and outsmarting your enemies and ambushes and shooting people in the back.

Uh Rurik,

That's pretty much what I was saying. The Luck roll is POWx5%, so that is POW or less on a D20, and spending POW points thing is the same as MPs, just using RQ2 terminology.

[Rurik]

Uh Rurik,

That's pretty much what I was saying. The Luck roll is POWx5%, so that is POW or less on a D20, and spending POW points thing is the same as MPs, just using RQ2 terminology.

While clearly I was led to this by your previous post, the difference is you were proposing losing a single POW/MP for the roll, which when the average character has 10-11 allows for a lot of luck rolls - it's not like we're using MP to power speedslug or bowiesharp spells. The difference is using a d20 and losing MP equal to the roll of the die, which is going to limit the use of the mechanic. If you want more cinematic heroes use a d10.

But yes, very similar to what you said and clearly inspired by it.

[Atgxtg]

While clearly I was led to this by your previous post, the difference is you were proposing losing a single POW/MP for the roll, which when the average character has 10-11 allows for a lot of luck rolls - it's not like we're using MP to power speedslug or bowiesharp spells. The difference is using a d20 and losing MP equal to the roll of the die, which is going to limit the use of the mechanic. If you want more cinematic heroes use a d10.

But yes, very similar to what you said and clearly inspired by it.

Oh, I thought you miseed my post. As another method, that yeah, it is an option.

Still, with the average character having a 10-11 POW translating to a 50-55% Luck roll and the idea of the mechanic being limited to terminal wounds only, most characters aren't going to get the chance to use it much. More likely to run out of characters before you run out of MPs.

Maybe some Native Americans could have Spirit Magic? Good incentive to wipe them out and steal their land.

[Nightshade]

Oh yeah. IMO the setting would really need to use one of the Luck Rule/Hero Point ideas to be viable. Otherwise the first shootout with 1d10+2 pistols and no armor will wipe out a lot of PCs.

That was my feeling too.

[Nightshade]

Maybe some Native Americans could have Spirit Magic? Good incentive to wipe them out and steal their land.

Well, there's a lot of potential room for fantasy Westerns, but that's sort of a different issue.

[Atgxtg]

That was my feeling too.

I'm seriously thinking of listing two damage values on the weapons table. One that meshes with the values in Call of Cthulu, and another set that are a bit toned down and smother in progression. They would drop a .45 from 1D10_2 to 1D8, or maybe 2d4 with the +2 kicking in after armor (not much of a factor in the Old West).

An .25 could do 1D4, a .36 Navy 1D4+1,a .45-70 Govement round would do 5d4. , and a .577-450 round do something like 3D4+2 or 4D4.

Maybe tweak crticals to x3 instead of max? So that way the chance for an instank kill with most weapons is still there, but remote.

[Simlasa]

Well, there's a lot of potential room for fantasy Westerns, but that's sort of a different issue.

I don't have a problem with fantasy Western... but I don't need rules for it... I just want a few rule bits that account for the differences in weapons and equipment... skills... the rest I can pretty much handle the rest myself... and add the weird stuff if we've a mind to go that direction.

[TriOpticon]

Colt Peacemaker Model P

Era Cost: $15

Sharps "Big Fifty" Rifle

Era Cost: $30

Everything looks good but the costs seem a bit high for that era. I thought a Colt was like $5-$6. I am not an expert in the western era, though.

[Atgxtg]

Everything looks good but the costs seem a bit high for that era. I thought a Colt was like $5-$6. I am not an expert in the western era, though.

Could be. I've got several different RPGs for the era and they all give different prices ($15-$35), and I took the lowest.. If anyone has a better source let me know. I'll do some surfing and see if I can find some authentic prices.

I wonder if maybe the $5 price was the Price in the East and the $15 + the price out West. The shipping costs and markup were probably pretty high back then. A $6 price with the RQIII 2.5x mulitple for transporting from City to Rural would come out to $15, too. And that matches up well with the $35 price for trasporting it out to the wilds.

I also am thinking of lowering the range a little since the .45 revolver in CoC has a base range of 15m, so the Peacemaker with a 7.5" barrel will probably be a 20.

Likewise, since these weapon are still using blackpowder I'll probably take a point or so off the damages. A .45 in 1875 isn't as powerful as a .45 in 1925.

[Atgxtg]

Here is a sample of the format I am thinking of going with for the weapons in the "Western Handbook". I'll put a table at the end too for quick reference. Does it suck?

[Guest the Bromgrev]

I think the first thing you need to decide is an era. That way you can try to get information on costs and availability for the period you're looking at. I don't know much about the hstory of the Wild West myself, but I'm sure costs must have been very different depending on when the game is set. You also need to set the era so you can create your weapons tables.

The other approach is to try to do a 200-year (or so) book showing everything with an availability range ( like 1790 to 1830) and a price range. As others have said, location will also be a factor.

[Kloster]

I think the first thing you need to decide is an era. That way you can try to get information on costs and availability for the period you're looking at. I don't know much about the hstory of the Wild West myself, but I'm sure costs must have been very different depending on when the game is set. You also need to set the era so you can create your weapons tables.

The other approach is to try to do a 200-year (or so) book showing everything with an availability range ( like 1790 to 1830) and a price range. As others have said, location will also be a factor.

Agreed.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

[Atgxtg]

I think the first thing you need to decide is an era. That way you can try to get information on costs and availability for the period you're looking at. I don't know much about the hstory of the Wild West myself, but I'm sure costs must have been very different depending on when the game is set. You also need to set the era so you can create your weapons tables.

The other approach is to try to do a 200-year (or so) book showing everything with an availability range ( like 1790 to 1830) and a price range. As others have said, location will also be a factor.

Already done. My primary sorucebook groups the firearms by time period. The peacemaker is from the 1873-1885 period, and prices are supposedly the price of that time period.

So I think I can do up the weapons in sections. Do the 1973-86 era first, then do the 1860s era and bounce around from there. I figured I should get the the cartridge firearms done first, then worry about cap & ball.

[soltakss]

Here is a sample of the format I am thinking of going with for the weapons in the "Western Handbook". I'll put a table at the end too for quick reference. Does it suck?

Does it suck? Absolutely not.

I liked the font, liked the layout and the stats.