1E Classic Box Set Reprint Rules vs. 6E Rules

[Stan Shinn]

When the Pendragon Kickstarter hits, assuming Chaosium does like they did with CoC Kickstarter and offers a 1E classic box set reprint, what are the pros and cons of going the 1E route instead of 6E? I tend to like older, simpler rulesets, and I already have the Great Pendragon Campaign written for the 5.2 rules. I never owned the older products, so it wouldn't be nostalgia I'm looking for, but rather simplicity.

I’m wondering if I’d have a better time with a 1E reprint campaign with the Great Pendragon Campaign converted over to 1E, or if that’s a big hassle and running with all 6E products would be better. My bias is towards games with simpler rules, less bookkeeping, and not a lot of fiddly bits like cards and no rulebooks with long page counts.

Anyone have opinions based on your knowledge of 1E and what you’ve seen from the 6E Quickstart? 

Edited September 2, 2022 by Stan Shinn

[Percarde]

First edition had more skills, like language and culture, for each of the of the backgrounds which were deleted in the next editions.  3e is the oldest version I would recommend.

[Vortimer]

Each edition added a bit more, either by tweaking, or outright adding/deleting some stuff. Magic was added in the 4th, taken away in the 5th. Earlier editions time frame was 530, then 510 with Boy King, and 480/485 with Uther in 5th edition. All of the adventures can be run no matter which edition you use, albeit with some changes, and the world got more fleshed out with each edition.

All the rules can be boiled down to essentially 1 page of rules. The rest is the expansion of those. Some like fighting, some like questing, some like court intrigues and all can be done no matter which edition you want. But, I think you will find 6e will have more detail on each. But, it will add pages to everything. The Pendragon Discord channel is something you might want to look into as well.

[Morien]

10 hours ago, Percarde said:

First edition had more skills, like language and culture, for each of the of the backgrounds which were deleted in the next editions.  3e is the oldest version I would recommend.

Agreed. 1e also has some scaling issues compared to later editions, both in Glory and in character statistic values. So it is not as easy to use other published material. 

My preferred bang for the buck edition is 4e, since it is combining 3e + Knights Adventurous for pretty much the same price fir the pdf. Also, bring set in 531, it is at the heyday of Arthurian Golden Age, time to adventure and knight errantry. 

[TrippyHippy]

We’ve yet to see what 6E will turn out like of course, so familiarity could be a thing I guess. 

For me, I think the main appeal of 6E is the planned support surrounding it - a full expanded Great Pendragon Campaign included, plus spinoffs for things like playing Magicians and Saints (?). The rules may be tweaked, but honestly much of this is quite peripheral I feel and I’m a bit iffy about the graphical layout and presentation from what we’ve seen so far in quick plays. 

All said and done though, I’m quite primed for spending a bit on the line now, so if the Kickstarter Classic set and 6E Starter set were both announced tomorrow, I’d probably back both.

[Grimmshade]

Is the 6e line going to be Kickstarter or just released for preorder?

[TrippyHippy]

19 minutes ago, Grimmshade said:

Is the 6e line going to be Kickstarter or just released for preorder?

I don’t *know*. 
 

However the indication is, no, the 6th Edition will be traditionally printed and distributed as a line rather than crowdfunded. The first mooted release will be a Starter box set which should be soon, I think. I don’t see the Core rule books coming out till next year now, as the PDF normally comes out several months beforehand first. 
 

The Classic Edition may be re-released by Kickstarter, however, in a manner similar to those campaigns for both Classic Runequest and Classic Call of Cthulhu. I expect it will be also be a box set. 

Edited September 3, 2022 by TrippyHippy

[Metalzoic]

Yeah, that's a big bummer. I have no interest in a box set. Just the Core rulebook.

I also just noticed the new quickstart adventure says the Box set will launch in 2023

Edited September 7, 2022 by Metalzoic

[Rick Meints]

Our basic plan for the new edition of Pendragon is to release a boxed starter set, followed by the core rulebook, a GMs book, a Nobles book, and then adventure books. 

[Grimmshade]

3 hours ago, Rick Meints said:

Our basic plan for the new edition of Pendragon is to release a boxed starter set, followed by the core rulebook, a GMs book, a Nobles book, and then adventure books. 

Will the Great Pendragon Campaign be getting an updated version? If not soon, then I'll probably just buy it now.

[Vortimer]

I do know the Great Pendragon Campaign will be getting a face lift. Instead of one book comprising 80+ years, it will be divided into smaller parcels where each will take a major portion and theme of the entire saga.

Boy King and Conquest: King Arthur draws the sword and becomes the eminent ruler of the time.

Tournament and Romance: The high mark where Knight errantry, quests, and the court of love are in full power.

Grail and Twilight: The decline and end of the King Arthur saga.

Eventually, there will be also three prequels. (One could say, Book of Sires turned into a GPC with seeds for the later books.)

Vortigern, his rise and slide into tyranny. The rise of the Saxons

Aurelius, the throwing down of Vortigern, the new institutions, and bringing hope back

Uther and Anarchy, might makes right, winner takes all.

 

This allows a gm to buy only the time periods that are of interest and go from there. If they wish to continue, buy the next book, or skip to the next volume that interests them.

 

Edited September 15, 2022 by Hzark10

[Grimmshade]

Nice! Thanks for the info.

[jamh689]

On 9/14/2022 at 6:02 PM, Rick Meints said:

Our basic plan for the new edition of Pendragon is to release a boxed starter set, followed by the core rulebook, a GMs book, a Nobles book, and then adventure books. 

Will the Classic 1e Box Set also be released in 2023?

[Rick Meints]

42 minutes ago, jamh689 said:

Will the Classic 1e Box Set also be released in 2023?

not in 2023, probably.

[Narl]

Rick, if you don't mind me asking, how is the timeline for the 6th edition releases looking at this point?

[Rick Meints]

On 9/3/2022 at 6:25 PM, Grimmshade said:

Is the 6e line going to be Kickstarter or just released for preorder?

The Pendragon 6E items are not going to be Kickstarted. We don't Kickstart regular RPG launches, just special projects like Classic items (CoC and RQ) or boardgames, mainly because we are unsure how many to print. Pendragon will start going on sale later this year, starting with the Starter Set, followed by the 6E rulebook, GM's Guide, and Noble's Book.

[Rick Meints]

3 hours ago, Narl said:

Rick, if you don't mind me asking, how is the timeline for the 6th edition releases looking at this point?

2023 will be a big year for Pendragon, as per my last response a few mins ago.

[dracopticon]

Interesting that you, Stan Shinn, like first editions of games - because I do to!
For me, this is true with Call of Cthulhu 1st ed: a more fleshed-out education system, Stormbringer 1st-3rd ed: a fantastic chaotic character generation system and ritual magic system that fits the Young Kingdoms like a glove, and also King Arthur Pendragon 1st ed: where you could play a very mixed group of knights, even from Wotanic backgrounds, not to mention the awesome culture custom skills which gave you interesting situations and insights into other values and beliefs.

I think the main reason why first editions often are better, is because the game authors making it for the first time is so passionate about it! And that's a passion is hard to summon for later editions, at least with the same energy for the whole project. But, heck, I don't really know. It's just my two cents.

Edited February 4, 2023 by dracopticon