soltakss Posted November 12, 2022 Share Posted November 12, 2022 In our Black Spears game this week we had an interesting event. We met a Ghoul and one of the Adventurers had both Fear Undead and Hate Undead, so he rolled his Fear Undead and failed, which allowed him to roll his Hate Undead, which succeeded. I was wondering how people would resolve that? Would you roll Fear Undead first, accepting the result if you succeeded, but trying Hate Undead if you failed? Would you roll Fear Undead vs Hate Undead in an opposed roll to see which passion took precedence? Would you just ask the Adventurer to pick one and roll it? If so, why would anyone choose Fear Undead? Do you have another suggestion? Quote Simon Phipp - Caldmore Chameleon - Wallowing in my elitism since 1982. Many Systems, One Family. Just a fanboy. www.soltakss.com/index.html Jonstown Compendium author. Find my contributions here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runeblogger Posted November 12, 2022 Share Posted November 12, 2022 I prefer option 2. 🙂 I think it is the fairest one. 1 Quote Read my Runeblog about RuneQuest and Glorantha at: http://elruneblog.blogspot.com.es/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajagappa Posted November 12, 2022 Share Posted November 12, 2022 27 minutes ago, soltakss said: Would you roll Fear Undead vs Hate Undead in an opposed roll to see which passion took precedence? Yes, this is the approach I've taken. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadiagt5 Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 I’d probably go with option 2 - the opposed resolution just feels Gloranthan to me. Sometimes the adventurer will flee, sometimes they’ll pick one of the undead to go berserk on, and sometimes it could be both… I mean consider a situation where the adventurer succeeds in both passions, but with a stronger success (e.g. a special or crit) in the Hate passion. Remember that inspiring on a Hate passion gives you the bonus against one enemy, not all enemies of that type in the fight. So in that situation the hate overwhelms the fear for one of the undead, and the adventurer fights with enhanced ferocity against that one target… then looks around after defeating it and possibly flees if other undead are still around as the hatred drains away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill the barbarian Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 8 hours ago, soltakss said: Would you roll Fear Undead first, accepting the result if you succeeded, but trying Hate Undead if you failed? Would you roll Fear Undead vs Hate Undead in an opposed roll to see which passion took precedence? Would you just ask the Adventurer to pick one and roll it? If so, why would anyone choose Fear Undead? Do you have another suggestion? This sounds like the classic instance of... "He did not know whether to shit or go blind!"I always wondered about that expression but this defines it. I don't know, but I kind of like symmetry of the inverse of the first... Try hate undead and should that fail be ready to flee upon making your fear undead. But Simon, I have to ask, how did this unfortunate situation happen? Quote ... remember, with a TARDIS, one is never late for breakfast! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soltakss Posted November 13, 2022 Author Share Posted November 13, 2022 8 hours ago, Bill the barbarian said: But Simon, I have to ask, how did this unfortunate situation happen? Character generation gave him both Hate Undead and Fear Undead. It is unusual but can happen. If it happened to my Adventurer, I might have argued that the second Passion would have just added 10 to the original Passion, but I think the Player liked the internal conflict. Quote Simon Phipp - Caldmore Chameleon - Wallowing in my elitism since 1982. Many Systems, One Family. Just a fanboy. www.soltakss.com/index.html Jonstown Compendium author. Find my contributions here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akhôrahil Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, soltakss said: If it happened to my Adventurer, I might have argued that the second Passion would have just added 10 to the original Passion, but I think the Player liked the internal conflict. Another option could have been to merge them, creating ”Hate and Fear Undead”. Edited November 13, 2022 by Akhôrahil 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajagappa Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 2 hours ago, soltakss said: Character generation gave him both Hate Undead and Fear Undead. It is unusual but can happen. This is not an unusual situation. We see it with Fear and Hate Dragon, or Fear and Hate Lunars. E.g. undead come and destroy your stead and kill your family. You Hate undead because of this - when at the clan moot you loudly proclaim how you want the chieftain to lead an expedition to destroy every one of the foul things. Yet, they are monstrous. When they came, you were frozen in fear and couldn't save them. And when they come again, or when the chieftain sends you out as part of the expedition, you are terrified that you will be frozen in fear again.... They work perfectly well together - people have multiple emotions and reactions to such beings. How you respond in a given instant will depend on which emotion takes over in the moment. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen L Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 (edited) Fear and Hate are not mutually exclusive. Also, someone (or something) who is scared can make a *very* dangerous foe. Just see what happens when you corner a rat... Running away because you rolled under your fear passion is just the most obvious response, it's not the only one. I'd believe frenzied attack or stealth... Edited November 13, 2022 by Stephen L 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akhôrahil Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 2 hours ago, jajagappa said: We see it with Fear and Hate Dragon I absolutely love how the HQ clan questionnaire could give you four results: Fear Dragons, Fear Dragons, Fear Dragons, or Hate And Fear Dragons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
French Desperate WindChild Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 roll both if one succeed more (special versus normal, or normal versus failure) than other, this is the active passion if both succeed in the same level, player decides the active passion if both fail, there is no active passion 2 hours ago, Stephen L said: Fear and Hate are not mutually exclusive. Also, someone (or something) who is scared can make a *very* dangerous foe. Just see what happens when you corner a rat... Running away because you rolled under your fear passion is just the most obvious response, it's not the only one. I'd believe frenzied attack or stealth... yes under fear, you may want to destroy the source of your fear (at least "fanatism effect"), to stay unable to move, or to flee. however I play "fear passion in rqg" as the flee option by simplicity 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajagappa Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 1 hour ago, Akhôrahil said: Fear Dragons, Fear Dragons, Fear Dragons, or Hate And Fear Dragons. Just reinforces the point that one really, really should FEAR DRAGONS! For all you know, if they eat you, YOUR soul will become a dragonewt, or a dinosaur, or even some fragment of a dragon's dream. So much for even getting to the Halls of the Dead, let alone some happy paradise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill the barbarian Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 4 hours ago, jajagappa said: They work perfectly well together - people have multiple emotions and reactions to such beings. How you respond in a given instant will depend on which emotion takes over in the moment. 3 hours ago, Stephen L said: Also, someone (or something) who is scared can make a *very* dangerous foe. Just see what happens when you corner a rat... 3 hours ago, Stephen L said: Running away because you rolled under your fear passion is just the most obvious response, it's not the only one. I'd believe frenzied attack or stealth... this is interesting, indeed. Not sure I like one over the other but two valid responses. Seems the answer might require the GM and their table to be deft enough to interpret the rolls on the fly... I mention the table, because if the table is rewarded with good stories they might (I like to think will) see the advantages of making rulings like either of these fine choices. Having the table be willing to aid a story as opposed to just aiding the adventurer alone increases the brains thrown at the problem. 1 Quote ... remember, with a TARDIS, one is never late for breakfast! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akhôrahil Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 1 hour ago, jajagappa said: Just reinforces the point that one really, really should FEAR DRAGONS! For all you know, if they eat you, YOUR soul will become a dragonewt, or a dinosaur, or even some fragment of a dragon's dream. So much for even getting to the Halls of the Dead, let alone some happy paradise. The description of the Dragonkill where barely the ghosts made it back is very effective. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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