Jump to content

Silver Shields


Recommended Posts

Does anyone have a source for the Silver Shields, their founding, their activities up until the invasion of Prax. I think I have all that follows that including the Heortland invasion, the 2nd Battle of Moonbroth/Pavis and the reforming of the unit thereafter.

Were they part of the invasion of Sartar inn 1602? Were they at Boldhome or somewhere else in Sartar at that time? Were they at Grizzly Peaks before then?

Does anyone happen to know the approximate year and season of when the Fortress of Doors takes place? (I know not likely canon but I’d like to know).

Thanks much!

Mr. Helsdon’s, Mr. Pospisil’s, Brootse’s, etc. illustrations are really helpful, various sources.

image.png.b38cc4ad5e0767e2d5f308d83f5ba29e.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, Erol of Backford said:

Does anyone have a source for the Silver Shields, their founding, their activities up until the invasion of Prax. I think I have all that follows that including the Heortland invasion, the 2nd Battle of Moonbroth/Pavis and the reforming of the unit thereafter.

Pavis: Gateway to Adventure p162 is the most recent source.  Created by Hwarin to fight against the Kynnelfing Alliance.  The regimental deity is Ipharia Elnestratos.  No info about where they were in the Invasion of Sartar.

 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

I have that and I think most other sources, thank you Met! Just trying to get an earlier conflict going with Sartar around 1600-1610...

Also, do they have packs of dogs with them?

Standard Tent #1
Silver Shields File Leader Hyemtosus
Silver Shields equipment
Standard Tent #2
Silver Shields First Half-File soldiers
(Bendrek, Gwaere, Jomes, Kortilus,
Luridas, Pardidrek, Phirmax)
Standard Tent #3
Silver Shields Second Half-File soldiers
(Anerasus, Envertos, Kotorum, Joren,
Lukaros, Oreneros, Terkotus)

Edited by Erol of Backford
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 1/3/2023 at 12:35 AM, Erol of Backford said:

Also, do they have packs of dogs with them?

They are Sylilans, not Sairdites, so I'd say no.  

On 1/3/2023 at 12:29 AM, metcalph said:

The regimental deity is Ipharia Elnestratos.

More likely the regimental deity is Hwarin herself, though likely with an intermediary wyter.

 

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

What Pavis: GTA actually says is:

“The war gods of the regiment are Yanafal Tarnils and Hwarin Dalthippa. Ipharia Enestratos is the regimental guardian and resides in a gold and silver bat atop a silver moondisk on a blackwood staff. ”

So Ipharia is the regimental wyter. And that seems be pretty much all that has been said about the cult outside of ILH-2, I suspect it is now quite deprecated, at least as a cult - as are most ILH cults. At most it would be a sub-cult of one of the two main gods of the regiment. 
The ILH-2 entry also associates the cult with Odayle and Jajagappa, but I don’t really know why, nor is it ever mentioned again. I’d ignore that one definitely. They are portrayed in Masters of Luck and Death with dogs, but with no explanation offered anywhere. 

I’d treat Hwarin as the main god of the regiment, with officers also worshipping Yanafals. Regiments of Hwarin followers are said to usually be either peltasts or light cavalry, and a special cult status is the elite initiate Shield Maidens who seem to be peltasts. 
The Silver Shields seem to be now mostly described as hypaspists, and treated as superior hoplites (including by Martin in Armies and Enemies, and in Pavis:GTA). But the term hypaspist meant different things at different historical times, and at times meant elite hoplite heavy infantry, but at other times much more like peltasts. The Silver Shields are one of the uncommon cases where we have actual RQ stats for an average member, though, and in The Cradle they are definitely peltasts, skirmishing javelin troops. Unless the regiment mixes heavy and light infantry, they should be peltasts IMO. 

 

Edited by davecake
  • Like 1
  • Helpful 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Based on the armor in the stats they seem more like peltasts to me.

I'd still love to connect the PC's to them early on say 1600 or more easily during the Sartar invasion. The appear in Pavis and again guarding Feroda. I keep hoping for a line of battle of sorts for the invasion, possibly troop movements such as in the GtG map below that positions the Silver Shields possibly as skirmishers even before 1602 that the PC's have to deal with maybe on trade routes up north or near the boarders of Tarsh. I intend to make them long term antagonists.

Are there maps showing the Lunar expansion? What about battles besides Grizzly Peaks with Tarsh Exiles? Do the Silver Shields follow around Fazzur as a part of his army?

Any thoughts?

image.png.308089d89dd508c3f69adb0635110236.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, Erol of Backford said:

Do the Silver Shields follow around Fazzur as a part of his army?

Up until 1610, yes, and then they are one of the three units assigned to the garrison duties in Prax after the victory at Moonbroth and conquest of Pavis.  As I recall, they are largely divided into 3(?) divisions, one at Pavis, one at Feroda, and one doing scouting and reconnaissance through the Zola Fel valley, probably on a rotational basis.  They participate in the Cradle battle.

26 minutes ago, Erol of Backford said:

Are there maps showing the Lunar expansion?

Wyrms Footnotes #15 has the earlier map similar to what you show above (it was originally in Different Worlds #28).  In Dragon Pass, it largely shows the general routes of the Lunars, not of others (e.g. it does not show the route of the Volsaxi in 1602 which were defeated at Quackford and Caromon Pass).  

I don't believe there is anything more detailed than that.   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, Erol of Backford said:

Are there maps showing the Lunar expansion?

The Redline History in the Sourcebook has beautiful maps in roughly 50-year steps, which is the best temporal resolution the original historical maps by Greg Stafford can offer.

20 minutes ago, Erol of Backford said:

What about battles besides Grizzly Peaks with Tarsh Exiles?

There is the reign of Palashee Long-axe, and the warfare of King Phargentes against Exiles and Sartarites. The conquest of Bagnot and Dunstop by Lunar Tarsh ought to fall into this period.

After Grizzly Peak, the exiles are greatly diminished to the immediate neighborhood of Kero FIn. No large scale operations to assimilate them are on the record. Chris Gidlow's Tarsh War freeform offers a possible conflict for 1619.

  • Thanks 1

Telling how it is excessive verbis

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Joerg said:

The Redline History in the Sourcebook has beautiful maps in roughly 50-year steps, which is the best temporal resolution the original historical maps by Greg Stafford can offer.

I have and reread the sections in the Sourcebook. I think its simple enough to go with the KoS book's path of the Lunar Invasion starting through Dwarf Ford, etc. I'll assume some skirmish somewhere on the periphery has a company of the Silver Shields pillaging a hamlet, Apple Lane perhaps and the PC's challenging them, not as Sartarites but as Heortlanders. The Lunars claim their good s or something and the PC's deem it simple banditry and fight them off...

image.png.3330b881cc094851c160e985a7e5c4cf.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

I have and reread the sections in the Sourcebook. I think its simple enough to go with the KoS book's path of the Lunar Invasion starting through Dwarf Ford, etc. I'll assume some skirmish somewhere on the periphery has a company of the Silver Shields pillaging a hamlet, Apple Lane perhaps and the PC's challenging them, not as Sartarites but as Heortlanders. The Lunars claim their good s or something and the PC's deem it simple banditry and fight them off...

image.png.3330b881cc094851c160e985a7e5c4cf.png

The arrow from Runegate to Wilmskirk ignores territory a lot.

There is a trail along the Colymar wilds between the Starfire Ridges and Tarndisi's Grove that can be traveled by small groups of individuals and herd beasts, often in single line as per the illustration on p.98 of the core rule book, but moving a warband would already take long, and moving an army's train through such a route might take weeks.

After the siege of Runegate and the Bat feeding of the town (which apparently lasted several days, chaotically devouring the stack of defender units one per day using its Chaotic Magic attack) the Lunar forces marched rather quickly in force towards Wilmskirk, in all likelihood using the secondary road through Lismelder lands towards the royal highway from Duck Point to Wilmskirk, the bridge at Quackford and the route south of the Stream, through Famegrave.

Highways and Byways does offer a "local road" through the Black Spear Clan territory and the fringes of Tarndisi's Grove. It is true that this is a well-known track for Colymar tribesfoik, especially royal messengers carrying communication between the Taraling clan and Clearwine, and the occasional trusted merchant with a smal mule train. Non-Colymar might provide some other identification to avoid harassment by elfs near the grove, like the markings of Issaries (or Etyries) or elf friend insignia. (Kitori lead masks amd grey cloaks ought to work, too.)

The boardgame map (e.g. https://boardgamegeek.com/image/224075/dragon-pass) rather ignores the difficulty of crossing the hills of Sartar, especially some of the rougher and wilder places. (Its representation of the Dragonspine is missing, crossing the Starfire Ridges west to east looks deceptively simple, too).


AFAICS Apple Lane is not going to see any major Lunar force in 1602, but that doesn't mean that there is no visit by a detachment possibly outnumbering the inhabitants of the hamlet.

Passages like Birne's Squeeze take about an hour per 100 men on foot to pass through in a more or less continuous line, which would be full capacity.

While most of such a route will allow even traffic in the opposite direction, or marching several people abreast, there will be choke points where there is barely enough space for a single cart or two mounts abreast, and in all likelihood rather churned ground after the passage of the first fifty travelers. A herd of fifty cattle having passed through a field's gate will leave a morass about a foot deep in fertile soil unless you have a prolonged dry spell. (In the line of my field work I tend to find it easier to cross the fences nearby...) A trail may be less susceptible to such damage, but treacherous footing will be an everyday occurrence on the march.

 

  • Thanks 1

Telling how it is excessive verbis

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

I think its simple enough to go with the KoS book's path of the Lunar Invasion starting through Dwarf Ford, etc.

I'd bring the march down the west side of Starfire Ridge as that brings you to Quackford, and we know that one group of the Volsaxi was defeated there.  Then they just need to follow the Royal Road to Wilmskirk, Caroman Pass, and Boldhome.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, Joerg said:

AFAICS Apple Lane is not going to see any major Lunar force in 1602, but that doesn't mean that there is no visit by a detachment possibly outnumbering the inhabitants of the hamlet.

That's what I was assuming, happens to be Silver Shields so they and the PC's may recognize each other's noncanonical Invisible Orlanth heraldry and the SIlver Shields standard sometime in the future. Again we are dealing with Heortlanders from Backford who are Aeolians.

Either east or west of the ridges, more likely both at the same time if the Lunars felt they'd not be attacked? Possibly a much smaller group east of the ridge to reconiter and a minor force to Apple lane to protect the flank of the supply lines? I was just looking at following general direction of what the book described on the way to Boldhome. Thanks for pointing out the actual terrain as an obstacle. A better detail of the troop movements with red arrows below.

6 hours ago, jajagappa said:

we know that one group of the Volsaxi was defeated there

Was there a source for the Volsaxi fighting between Runegate and Quackford?

Any idea as to the size of the Sartarite force attacking from Alda-Chur that was mostly destroyed? I didn't add an arrow for the Sartarite attack from there.

I assume the Silver Shields, if they were part of the main force in 1602 would have been at the flanks as scouts or skirmishers? Did they ride to battle and dismount for fight or were they always on foot?

Also if they were protection flanks and or supply lines they likely didn't fight at Boldhome... again this puts them in my mind for MQF in Apple Lane. The PC's help hinder some pillaging, etc. by the Silver Shields.

Thanks again for the input.

From GtG: Silver Shield soldier: Soldiers of the Silver Shields regiment are providing security for Varnarn and the Lunar priests (only one can be seen here). The Silver
Shields are hypaspists: nimble hoplites capable of fast marching and operating in difficult terrain. They carry long spears, kopis, javelins, and their famous silverplated
bronze shields. They wear hardened leather breastplates and white tunics, brown trews, and red parade cloaks.

image.png.a6604b44c87db2715fd9c77e51cd9d90.png image.png.8f9bdfa1c758a1cda2378fd8e5e2de3f.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Erol of Backford said:

Either east or west of the ridges, more likely both at the same time if the Lunars felt they'd not be attacked?

Btw, the KoS text also notes that the Lunar Army (likely including the Red Emperor) passed through the Dragon's Eye, undoubtedly to arrange alliance with the dragonewts who later helped storm Boldhome.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Erol of Backford said:

Was there any mention of size of Lunar forces involved in the invasion? In RBWM are any numbers associated with each counter? This might allow us to gauge the maximum possible force brought to bear against Sartar?

Something in my head screams 300 per counter, but I am not sure. Each counter represents a Clan's fighting force, though.

  • Thanks 1

Simon Phipp - Caldmore Chameleon - Wallowing in my elitism since 1982. Many Systems, One Family. Just a fanboy. 

www.soltakss.com/index.html

Jonstown Compendium author. Find my contributions here

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, soltakss said:

Something in my head screams 300 per counter

As I recall, the standard was 1000 per infantry, 500 per cavalry (going back to the #'s noted in original Pavis set).  Lunar magicians might be 500, but that includes their guards.  300 may have been standard for mercenaries like Sir Holburn's Axe Brothers.

2 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

This might allow us to gauge the maximum possible force brought to bear against Sartar?

I think we can expect most of the Lunar Provincial Army.  Some units from the Heartland Corps (e.g. Beryl and Marble Phalanxes, Silver Shields), some of the Cavalry Corps (e.g. Antelope Lancers).  Since the Red Emperor is there, at least some of the Imperial Bodyguard is present (and is noted as being there in KoS).  And of course the Crimson Bat.  

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It states they are fast - fleet of foot if you will but I'd almost rather they ride and dismount to fight, it makes them better scouts.

If they were to have sent a full file to Apple Lane it makes for great roll playing that Heortlanders with friendly ties to those in Apple Lane via trade happen to be there when the Lunar onslaught comes to town...

If, noncanonical of course.

How do the PC's react do the Lunars attack them assuming they are in Sartar to support the kingdom or do the PC's claim neutrality and let their friends/trade partners suffer?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, jajagappa said:
7 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

This might allow us to gauge the maximum possible force brought to bear against Sartar?

I think we can expect most of the Lunar Provincial Army.  Some units from the Heartland Corps (e.g. Beryl and Marble Phalanxes, Silver Shields), some of the Cavalry Corps (e.g. Antelope Lancers).  Since the Red Emperor is there, at least some of the Imperial Bodyguard is present (and is noted as being there in KoS).  And of course the Crimson Bat.  

The Dragon Pass boardgame gives us the Lunar forces after the Dragonkill, with the provincial forces mostly limited to the Native Furthest militia. No idea whether there were Sairdite or Aggari forces at the dedication rite for the new Temple.

Telling how it is excessive verbis

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 1/7/2023 at 12:35 AM, Joerg said:

......

Passages like Birne's Squeeze take about an hour per 100 men on foot to pass through in a more or less continuous line, which would be full capacity.

..

I susoect you may have misplaced a decimal point in your mental calculation.

If we assume a file of soldiers achieves the standard American Civil War marching pace of 80 yards a minute (slower than 20th Century 100 yards a minute) then with two yard intervals, 40 men a minute will pass in single file.  That is 2400 in an hour, assuming they don't stop for breaks.

So after a point element clears the route. Birne's Squeeze will accommodate large units.

It might be harder on their logistics.  But these armies will usually live by foraging.

Edited by Squaredeal Sten
Took out white space; spelling/typing
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

t

3 hours ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

If we assume a file of soldiers achieves the standard American Civil War marching pace of 80 yards a minute (slower than 20th Century 100 yards a minute) them with two yard intervals, 40 men a minute will pass in single file.  That is 2400 in an hour, assuming they don't stop for breaks.

How fast would the inevitable camp followers be on such a trail?  Not much slower, they need to be able to catch up with the soldiers and still serve in setting up camp and providing their after-march services. The Silver Shields might be rather professional, with one follower per two soldiers.

The actual way length to cross area like Birne's Squeeze may be 15 km per 8 km-hex (appöying "mountainous terrrain speed" from the board game), with 10kn per 8km-hex on a secondary road in open terrain and close to the actual diameter on primary roads. That's a daily march of up to 48 km (six hexes) for infantry on primary roads, in about 10 hours of marching? That leaves up to sic hours of daylight for breaking and setting up camp in Fire Season.

A single slinger up the slopes may stop the advance for a couple of minutes as the targets will go for cover and then return the compliment. Only desperate groups keep marching under fire. The board game models that with the Zone of Control rules.

Comparisons with the last march of Varus' legions would be too harsh - the Lunars don't rely on a subverted recon under direct command of the opposing general. 

 

Foraging will have to scrounge up food for the man-days of the unit. I wonder whether warfare in Fire Season will severely limit the amount of available food. While there may be fresh vegetables and first fruits, grain reserves will be at their lowest. Dairy and this year's newborn livestock will be somewhat available, but much of that on the high pastures, with just enough dairy beasts near the villages to feed the locals.

Caravanserais will be prepared to feed up to 200 extras (people and beasts of burden) a day, making them excellent targets for foraging as you can find a few weeks' worth of supplies for that number, or a full unit for a few days.

The defenders rushing to Runegate will have used up much of the typical reserves on their way to the defense., but still a caravanserai should be able to feed three units of the WBRM game for a day. Major settlements might have a similar capacity with the Ernalda temple granaries and a weekly market.

 

How will the non-combatant natives prepare for a huge hostile (or friendly) force foraging in the neighborhood? Business as usual until the hostiles appear on the crest? Moving supplies to secret caches away from predictable routes, then returning to making hay (the main harvesting activity in Fire Season)? 

Foragers will prefer to target rich households, as the poor and destitute won't have much if any provisions left this late before the harvest. They will scoop up whatever domestic fowl and other livestock is available from non-cooperative natives, and take whatever is prepared on the hearth (cooking a pre-modern meal takes about half a day if based on grains).

 

How do friendly warbands on the march interact with hospitality? Can hostile or neutral forces enforce treatment as guests?

 

As Sylilans, the Silver Shields recruit from both lowland and upland farmers, familiar with the farmers' reactions for such occasions as they will have experienced these things from the receiving end. Although Sylila is a Heartland satrapy, the natives are different enough that forces from other Heartland regions and even more allied forces won't be "friendly" in any meaningful way even when well-disciplined if logistics aren't perfect (are they ever?).

What is the non-combatant element of the Silver Shields?

  • Like 1

Telling how it is excessive verbis

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Joerg said:

......

A single slinger up the slopes may stop the advance for a couple of minutes as the targets will go for cover and then return the compliment.  ........

How will the non-combatant natives prepare for a huge hostile (or friendly) force foraging in the neighborhood? 

The single slinger is why you clear the path with a company sized point element.  If the Silver Shields are indeed hypaspists  that is one of their tactical roles: They are light enough to get off the road and sweep the rough area in open order, but heavy enough with their shields that they will chase or kill the slingers.  They will have practiced this drill many times. 

The rest of the regiment follows. Securing the way for more regiments.

The natives will,  of course, hide much of their food and valuables, and drive their animals into the hills.  But the foraging parties will tell a village to produce a certain amount of food or have their houses burned.  The villagers may run away and a game of hide and seek follows.

And as you say, the invaders may have seen this from the other end so will know many of the hiding tricks, both for people and for food.  When necessary they will catch a villager and extort information.

Food supplies may be low in Fire season but the invaders will not be the ones to go hungry - as long as the army keeps moving into new areas.  The hay harvest will be interrupted and the cavalry mounts and beasts of burden will eat that grass and the hay too.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...