Newish GM with questions on a proposed set of sorcerer spells

[Enthar]

Apologies if this is not the right forum for such a question.  I thought, as a new GM, I might run some spells my sorcerer player has proposed past the hive mind here to make sure there isn't any particular hidden unpleasantness that I am just not seeing.  Some background, she is playing a Lhankor Mhy philosopher, and this is the first time she has had sufficient downtime to seriously create new spells.  I have tried to find sorcery spells from previous editions of the game with no success- the 2nd edition rules sold here do not include any sorcerer spells at all (although I enjoyed how much similarity the rules had to the current version).  If it matters, her INT is 20 and her POW is currently 18, and she has a bound spirit with 15 POW.  

I appreciate any comments, thank you!

New sorcery spells

Lightning Stroke (Air)(Summon)

2pts

Ranged, Instant

Starting from the hands (or other appendage) of the sorcerer, and forming a column 1 meter in diameter and 9 meters long, a stroke of lighting is formed for an instant, followed by a thunderclap as the stroke dissipates.  The stroke inflicts damage to the general hit points of anyone in the area, with the amount determined by consulting the Sorcery Strength table.   Neither armor nor spells that protect against physical damage are effective against this spell, though Countermagic, Reflect, and Castback work.  For each level of strength added to the spell, the length affected increases by 1 meter. The stroke may light nearby flammable materials, and the thunder clap afterwards may deafen anyone struck for 1d10+5 rounds if the strength of the spell overcomes their Con on the resistance table.

 

Sorcerer's Shield (Movement)(Illusion)(Earth)(Combination)

4pts

Personal, Active, Temporal

For the duration of the spell, an invisible shield of illusionary sensation is formed which orbits the caster.  This caster may attempt to parry any incoming attacks which they are aware of using this shield.  The base shield has 1 HP, and the caster has a base chance to parry equal to 20% + their Magic skill bonus.  Each point of spell strength increases the HP of the shield by 1.  Damage which exceeds the HP the shield penetrates it, and reduces the strength of the shield by 1 point.  The shield follows all rules for parrying attacks, including for multiple parries in a round and skills over 100%.  The parry chance may be improved through training, research or experience as normal.  Unlike Create Sensation, other spells can not be cast on the shield to improve or alter its effects, this is a specific limitation of the Sorcerer’s Shield spell.  To learn this spell the caster must know and have currently in mind the Create Sensation spell.

 

Magic Mote (Movement)(Illusion)(Earth)(Combination)

4pts

Ranged, Active, Temporal

Magic mote summons an invisible mote of illusionary sensation which can be directed by the caster to strike foes within its range on the Dex SR of the caster, +5 SR for each successive attack as normal.  Damage and range are as determined by consulting the Sorcery Strength and Sorcery Range tables.  The skill for the attack starts at 20% + the Magic skill bonus of the caster and may be improved as usual with training, research, or experience.  The mote is treated as a normal missile attack in all respects, and as such can not be parried but may be dodged or blocked by a shield, armor protects from the damage but the POW of the target need not be overcome, and so forth.  Likewise Counterspell, Reflect, and Castback (and similar defenses) do not defend as this attack is temporarily real, however Shield and Ward against Weapons  (and other similar defenses) will protect as usual.  Unlike Create Sensation, other spells can not be cast on the mote to improve or alter its effects, this is a specific limitation of the Magic Mote spell.  To learn this spell the caster must know and have currently in mind the Create Sensation spell.

 

[jajagappa]

1 hour ago, Enthar said:

Apologies if this is not the right forum for such a question.  I thought, as a new GM

Yes, definitely the right forum! (and welcome!)

GM'ing sorcery is a challenge just because there's not a huge range of example to draw from. 

1 hour ago, Enthar said:

Lightning Stroke (Air)(Summon)

Useful to fall back somewhat on the nature of Lightning and the myths of Orlanth capturing either Lightning Boy or the Lightning Spear. 

Mythically, lightning falls under Fire, but you want to draw it into storm-like conditions (i.e. particularly including the thunderclap). I'd likely play this as: Summon - Fire - Combine - Air.  Which means it would be a 4 pt spell which feels like if you consider the strength of the Rune spells Lightning (equal to 2 MP) and Thunderbolt equal to 6 MP).

1 hour ago, Enthar said:

Neither armor nor spells that protect against physical damage are effective against this spell, though Countermagic, Reflect, and Castback work. 

Since you are generating physical effects (lightning, thunderclap), I don't see why spells or armor would not protect? 

1 hour ago, Enthar said:

Sorcerer's Shield (Movement)(Illusion)(Earth)(Combination)

For this one, you are building on Create Sensation, and then allowing it to move, so it feels like the right elements.

1 hour ago, Enthar said:

This caster may attempt to parry any incoming attacks which they are aware of using this shield. 

This bit though gets trickier. With the combination of elements, I'd simply make it a passive force that the attacker has to get through based on the STR/SIZ of the shield. (And you need enough SIZ to cover some or all of the body.

If you want to bring in a Parrying effect, I'd require the addition of Command. That would change it from being something passive around 1 or more body parts to something you can direct and control. (And that would make it a 5 pt. spell) It seems reasonable to then use the caster's Shield % to wield it and parry.

1 hour ago, Enthar said:

Magic Mote (Movement)(Illusion)(Earth)(Combination)

Pretty much same notes as prior one. You're building on Create Sensation. Combining Movement means it passively moves with the caster. If you want to actively direct it, then you need to add in Command for a 5pt. spell.

 

Edited March 12, 2023 by jajagappa

[Godlearner]

1 hour ago, Enthar said:

Lightning Stroke (Air)(Summon)

Too powerful. You have an area effect spell with practically no defense (Reflection and Castback require POW vs POW fail before they activate) and secondary effects which stuns. I would make none metalic armor effective against this damage and have the damage go against a specific location. If you want general HP damage, you will need to make it overcome POW and make it single target.

 

1 hour ago, Enthar said:

Sorcerer's Shield (Movement)(Illusion)(Earth)(Combination)

Too weak and too expenesive to cast. Why Earth? How many magic points will a 10 point shield cost? any time you go to 4 runes/techniques you are almost sure to have to use Insight for some of them. Your base spell will likely cost 6 mps for 1 point of preotection and you still have to parry with it to boot. Why not use the same skill as regular shield to use it? 

 

1 hour ago, Enthar said:

Magic Mote (Movement)(Illusion)(Earth)(Combination)

Think its too expensive for the damage it does. Why Earth?  I think the base chance to hit should be DEXx5 and not checkable or trainable

[jajagappa]

8 minutes ago, Godlearner said:

Too weak and too expenesive to cast. Why Earth?

Look at Create Sensation in the sorcery spells list in RQG - it's the appropriate Rune for illusion of STR/SIZ (but invisible). In my opinion, this is the framing spell, so as long the the subsequent spell builds off this, then it should be workable.

[Godlearner]

4 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

Look at Create Sensation in the sorcery spells list in RQG - it's the appropriate Rune for illusion of STR/SIZ (but invisible). In my opinion, this is the framing spell, so as long the the subsequent spell builds off this, then it should be workable.

For the base spell ok, but if you are stacking this on top, its pointless. Both Create Sensation and these spells are Active. How to cast one on top of the other unless you make it passive and active only when used. If you are stacking then I would make it (Illusion)(Combination)

[svensson]

Welcome to the board Enthar. You are definitely in the right place for your questions.

I get confused about Sorcery in RQG quite a bit myself, but @jajagappa and @Godlearner do a good job of clarifying things.

My big problem is very likely the same as yours: I was 'raised' on 'wizards' having zap spells... direct damage spells or direct debuff spells that effectively contribute to the party's kill count. But I have to remind myself that that's not how Sorcery works in RQG. Most spell definitions are broader than simple 'does 1d4 damage' Magic Missile spells. Sorcery is more variable, more malleable and take more imagination to describe how the caster wants to effect the target.

Edited March 12, 2023 by svensson

[jajagappa]

3 hours ago, Godlearner said:

For the base spell ok, but if you are stacking this on top, its pointless. Both Create Sensation and these spells are Active. How to cast one on top of the other unless you make it passive and active only when used. If you are stacking then I would make it (Illusion)(Combination)

It's not stacking. I'm saying to use Create Sensation as a starting point for building out what the spells would look like.

You've got a working model for a base: Combine + Illusion + Earth = Create Sensation.

Now, you want this to be a movable illusion that moves with/around the caster, so it needs Movement as part of it too:  Combine + Illusion + Earth + Movement = let's call it Create Hidden Armor (since it's largely a defensive, protective spell).  As you note the base spell is Active, so this must be too. (You've already got Combine in the spell, so I don't think you need that repeated.)

Now, you want to be able to focus this illusory shield to actually parry a directed blow. To get to that, I think it requires Command as well.  So now this new spell has these characteristics: Combine + Illusion + Earth + Movement + Command = let's call it Create Hidden Shield (since now it functions like a shield and you can parry with it. You'll need to stay focused, I guess, with the Active part of the spell (not sure if there's a way to make it passive?), and then it needs your Parry skill to direct it in a melee. 

Overall, I take a very formulaic, building block approach to these spells. What Runes need to go together, do I need to combine or separate, does something need to be summoned or dispelled, do I have to command something to act in a specific manner. 

[hipsterinspace]

6 hours ago, Enthar said:

Lightning Stroke (Air)(Summon)

2pts

Ranged, Instant

Starting from the hands (or other appendage) of the sorcerer, and forming a column 1 meter in diameter and 9 meters long, a stroke of lighting is formed for an instant, followed by a thunderclap as the stroke dissipates.  The stroke inflicts damage to the general hit points of anyone in the area, with the amount determined by consulting the Sorcery Strength table.   Neither armor nor spells that protect against physical damage are effective against this spell, though Countermagic, Reflect, and Castback work.  For each level of strength added to the spell, the length affected increases by 1 meter. The stroke may light nearby flammable materials, and the thunder clap afterwards may deafen anyone struck for 1d10+5 rounds if the strength of the spell overcomes their Con on the resistance table.

I’d definitely go with @jajagappa’s suggestion of adding Fire and Combine. I’d also probably require either a POW vs POW (or in this case Spell Intensity) in order to deal direct magical damage to hit points, or, more likely, rule that it deals locational physical damage that requires armor to be bypassed. After all, sorcery is using a materialist perspective to manipulate the physical world, the manifestations are going to be broadly physical in their nature (as opposed to the mythological nature of Orlanth’s Thunderbolt and Lightning).

[Godlearner]

1 hour ago, jajagappa said:

It's not stacking. I'm saying to use Create Sensation as a starting point for building out what the spells would look like.

You've got a working model for a base: Combine + Illusion + Earth = Create Sensation.

Now, you want this to be a movable illusion that moves with/around the caster, so it needs Movement as part of it too:  Combine + Illusion + Earth + Movement = let's call it Create Hidden Armor (since it's largely a defensive, protective spell).  As you note the base spell is Active, so this must be too. (You've already got Combine in the spell, so I don't think you need that repeated.)

Now, you want to be able to focus this illusory shield to actually parry a directed blow. To get to that, I think it requires Command as well.  So now this new spell has these characteristics: Combine + Illusion + Earth + Movement + Command = let's call it Create Hidden Shield (since now it functions like a shield and you can parry with it. You'll need to stay focused, I guess, with the Active part of the spell (not sure if there's a way to make it passive?), and then it needs your Parry skill to direct it in a melee. 

Overall, I take a very formulaic, building block approach to these spells. What Runes need to go together, do I need to combine or separate, does something need to be summoned or dispelled, do I have to command something to act in a specific manner. 

I see what you are saying, but there is no reason to do it this way. There is no reason why it needs more than (Illusion) either (Command) or (Summon) if you are not stacking it. It should be passive as the act of Parrying will take care of movement and prevent casting other spells. As a 5 pt its just not usable. You are talking about something which will cost something like 8 magic points, will take more than 2 rounds to cast and give the caster less than 30% chance to parry 1-pt of damage. BTW, no official spell is more than 4 pts as far as I am aware.

What I am proposing is this:

Sorcerer's Shield (Illusion)(Command)

Personal, Temporal

For the duration of the spell, an invisible shield of illusionary sensation is formed which orbits the caster.  This caster may attempt to parry any incoming attacks which they are aware of using this shield.  The base shield has HP equal to the damage on Sorcery Strength table, and the caster has a base chance to parry equal to their DEX x5 as a percentage. Damage which exceeds the HP the shield penetrates but does not reduces the strength of the shield. The shield can be dispelled.  The shield follows all rules for parrying attacks, including for multiple parries in a round and skills over 100%.  Other spells can not be cast on the shield to improve or alter its effects, this is a specific limitation of the Sorcerer’s Shield spell. 

[hipsterinspace]

Rather than illusion + command, for a shield it seems like it would probably be more fitting for it to be stasis + illusion + combine + command if you’re calling upon an illusion to allow you to actively stop something. It likely wouldn’t be as effective as a real (physical) shield and would take a lot of MP to make it last long enough to prepare in advance while still being able to protect from more than a very minor wound.

Maybe having simply stasis + command/summon would make sense if you remove the illusory component, though the lack of an active component would probably mean it functions more along the lines of protection/parry spirit magic. That might actually be a lot more useful for a sorcery spell you’re usually expected to cast significantly in advance. That kind of advance preparation is usually preferable with something that takes so long to cast and has the potential for such extreme durations.

Edited March 13, 2023 by hipsterinspace

[French Desperate WindChild]

Hello sir, don't be afraid if you will not find the "true" answer 🙂

i always works with analogy for this kind of things:

 

so

Lightning Stroke (Air)(Summon) = Create Wall of Flames

but your spell is a little bit more efficient :

3m square (CWF) versus 9m square (LS) then your option "saves" 6mp

nothing (CWF)  versus "struck effect" (LS) then here your option saves a complete spell = 2pts (summon air two)

so I would add combine ( 2 spells effects of Air, Summon)  and consider that the basis is 3m long, or 9m long with a diameter of a finger, the one you use to point out the direction. so the cost is 3 and not 2mp (basis) but you save 1 mp ( 2 spells = 2+2, 1 combined spell = 3)

 

Sorcerer's Shield (Movement)(Illusion)(Earth)(Combination)
your proposal is very expensive as @Godlearner said

Compare with ward against weapons

4 points = 60% / 50% / 40% / 20% chances to cancel a 2pt / 4pt / 6pt / 10pt dammage attack when your spell offer 20-40% chances to block 1 dammage

 

so in my opinion, if a sorcerer wants to "fight with a shield"  it is more a kind of summon a transparent shield = create sensation

the sorcerer then will use its own shield skill to manipulate it, like the broadsword example and the basis 3mp is enough mp to have the protection of a small  (enc 1) medium (enc 2) or large (enc 3) shield

no need of movement combination, in my opinion, but if you consider that 3mp is not enough to summon a shield, add combination 🙂

 

Magic Mote (Movement)(Illusion)(Earth)(Combination)

as the spell allows a lot of distant attacks for the same price, I consider it a little bit cheap compared with other dammage spells, like even your lightning stroke spell.

so as I understand it is a kind of "flying thing" hitting the opponent, then going somewhere else to hit another opponent (or the same) until the end of the spell

so the runes seems to me ok, but the price is the same (more or less 1 point maybe) than a only one attack spell, that's my issue

nothing to propose however, unfortunatly 🙂

[jajagappa]

9 hours ago, Godlearner said:

There is no reason why it needs more than (Illusion) either (Command) or (Summon)

It does need something additional, and that's substance if you want it to protect you from damage. If you want a visible, but non-substantial shield, you need to include Fire. If you want substance, but invisible, you need to include Earth. The models are clearly shown in RQG (and they are consistent with requirements for Rune spells too).

9 hours ago, Godlearner said:

BTW, no official spell is more than 4 pts as far as I am aware.

They did not create a full grimoire of spells. They gave us reasonable low-end spells to start from, but that does not preclude more complex spells with more elements. 

 

[Shiningbrow]

Firstly, welcome, and I'm glad ppl are posting sorcery spell ideas! 😄

For Lightning, I'd look to MoonFire for your main idea, although I get why Create Wall of Flame is similar too. Although Moonfire is from the sky, the general Runes and Techniques are the same, and there's nothing to actually stipulate where the damaging element should come from.

Also, as said above, if it's a physical attack doing physical damage, then physical armours should stop it. (but I'd also agree that metal armours shouldn't be as effective as normal, and that it needs to hit a location.)

Re: Mage Shield - if it's an orb that orbits and directed by the mind, it should be Dex x5%. If it's a solid object that's basically being held and controlled by the sorcerer, then shield parry %.

Re: Magic Missi..... Mote - how do you dodge something invisible???

I'm also failing to see the need to have a certain spell in mind, especially since it's not directly a part of the spells you're casting, and once the spell is cast, what's in your mind is irrelevant.

[Godlearner]

7 hours ago, jajagappa said:

It does need something additional, and that's substance if you want it to protect you from damage.

In RQ Illusions were always real and had substance. I do not believe it needs anything else. 

Also let not lose sight of the 1pt per intensity. That is none starter for me, just peanuts.

[jajagappa]

40 minutes ago, Godlearner said:

In RQ Illusions were always real and had substance.

If you look at the comparable Rune spell in RQG p.332:

Illusory Substance 1 Point Ranged, Temporal, Stackable This spell creates 1 SIZ (5 kilograms) to the solid matter of an Illusion per point. For purposes of combat, 1 SIZ point equals 1 hit point. An illusion with substance can do damage. One point of substance can do 1D3 points of damage; 2 points can do 1D6 points of damage; and 4 can do 2D6. Each additional 2 points does a further 1D6 damage. For an illusion with substance to do damage the target must either strike themselves with the illusion (such as walking into an illusionary fire), or motion must be combined with the substance to give the caster fine control.

And the general note on Rune magic illusions p.331: The six spells below can be combined in any manner desired by the caster to create simple or complex illusions as desired, remembering that all uses of illusion are subject to the guidance of the gamemaster. If any of these rolls fail, the illusion lacks that aspect.

The sorcery spells work along the same lines in RQG. If you don't have Create Sensation included, then there is no substance to the illusion you create.

(RQ3 was the same. Same rune spells. For sorcery it was called Phantom(touch), but still required the substance to be there to create physical damage.)

[Dr. Devici]

It's worth noting that both Lightning and Thunderbolt ignore physical armor. Sure, they're rune spells but the general logic of "physical armor doesn't protect much against lightning" should probably hold for lightning stroke. Magic defenses like protection mitigating the damage seems like fair game though.

[Enthar]

I am very happy to get all the advice!  I will try to summarize things and respond in kind, but because I my account is new I can only post once per 24 hours (for now).

Lightning Stroke                                (Air)(Summon)
2pts
Ranged, Instant
Starting from the hands (or appropriate item) of the sorcerer, and forming a column 1 meter in diameter and 9 meters long, a stroke of lighting is formed for an instant, followed by a thunderclap as the stroke dissipates.  The stroke inflicts damage to the general hit points of anyone in the area of effect, with the amount determined by consulting the Sorcery Strength table.  Mundane armor does not protect against this damage, although magical armor and spells do.  For each level of strength added to the spell, the length affected increases by 1 meter. The stroke may light nearby flammable materials, and the thunder clap afterwards may deafen anyone struck for 1d10+5 rounds if the strength of the spell overcomes their Con on the resistance table.

Compared to Create Wall of Flame (Sorcery, Fire/Summon),general hit points seems the way to go.  I do have an open question- it seems that it is possible to interpret the area of Create Wall of Flame as "3m^2" instead of "an square area 3m x 3m, ie 9m^2".  I had been using the latter for its area, but is there any official errata that might clear that up?  It is why 9 meters is the length of the spell I permitted, as the areas lined up.  Basically the advantage of Lighting Stroke is air based vs. fire based (as are Lightning and Thunderbolt in Rune magic) and that it has a secondary deafen effect, instead of being temporal, active, and fire based.

Lightning (Rune magic, Air) and Thunderbolt (Rune magic, Air) are stronger in damage, as they should be for Rune spells.

 

For the two illusion spells, comparing Create Sensation, Fire Fingers, Ward against Weapons, skills with weapons and shields, and the sidebar regarding moving Illusions (that side bar is why I did not add Command Rune to the spells).  She strongly desired INT as the base stat rather than Dex (She rolled poorly for Dex), for obvious reasons I said no, Enhance INT is already too powerful and arguably not optional for sorcerers in general, no need to give it further synergy.

Sorcerer's Shield                    (Movement)(Illusion)(Earth)(Combination)
4pts
Personal, Passive, Temporal
For the duration of the spell, an invisible shield of illusionary sensation is formed which hovers near the caster.  The base shield has 1 HP and covers one hit location (front or back, but not both for a single point).  Each point of spell strength increases the HP of the shield by 1.  Additional points of range intensity will cover one additional contiguous hit location.  For larger or smaller casters than the human average, adjust the cost proportionately.  Damage which exceeds the HP of the shield penetrates it, and reduces the strength of the shield by 1 point.  If desired, the protected hit locations can be changed by concentrating on the spell for one melee round.

Illusionary Arrow                    (Movement)(Illusion)(Earth)(Combination)
4pts
Ranged, Passive, Temporal
This spell summons an invisible arrow of illusionary sensation which can be commanded by the caster to fly at flows to impale them.  The caster must concentrate to make an attack, as per the sidebar in RQG, providing the arrow a MOV of 12, otherwise the arrow simply floats nearby. If the target attempts to avoid the arrow (which they may only do if they can perceive it in some way, such as with Pierce Veil, Spirit Sight or similar), the caster makes an attack roll with DEX x5.  Damage is determined by consulting the Sorcery Strength.  The arrow is otherwise treated as temporarily real normal missile attack in all respects, and as such can not be parried but may be dodged (if it can be perceived) or blocked by a shield positioned shield, armor protects from the damage but the POW of the target need not be overcome, and so forth.

They are still more expensive than comparable attack and defense spells 

For example, she didn't want to use Fire Fingers as she is very illusion based sorcerer already, and it didn't fit with her self conception to suddenly start spinning threads of fire out to do damage.  Further, being a refugee from D&D 5e (as I am, after the kafuffle of a few months ago), she objects to being a swordswomen in full plate with a shield, who happens to cast a bit of sorcery if they have time.  RQG sorcerers definitely are not battle casters and she is learning that the hard way, but perhaps with even a few rounds preparation before a fray she can feel that she contributes without becoming another 'yet another Rune Lord.'  That said, Sorcerer's Shield is essentially summoning a big plate of energy you hide behind, rather less efficient armor basically, and Illusionary Arrow is a slightly more expensive version of Fire Fingers but has the advantage as a result of being invisible and thus being slightly more difficult to defend against (without damaging shields as well as Fire Fingers does).

I appreciate all the conversation! It has been extremely illuminating.  

 

[Shiningbrow]

8 hours ago, Enthar said:

The stroke inflicts damage to the general hit points of anyone in the area of effect

I'm still wondering why you'd go this path, especially as the stroke has to actually hit the person somewhere to have an effect, and RL lightning does damage to that body part. Now, if you're talking just electricity, that's a different matter (slightly...).

8 hours ago, Enthar said:

 Additional points of range intensity will cover one additional contiguous hit location

Don't use Range here. That's purely for the distance a spell can be cast at. Change this to be part of the Intensity/Strength - so she'll have to choose between HP and Hit Locations.

 

8 hours ago, Enthar said:

Further, being a refugee from D&D 5e (as I am, after the kafuffle of a few months ago), she objects to being a swordswomen in full plate with a shield, who happens to cast a bit of sorcery if they have time.  RQG sorcerers definitely are not battle casters and she is learning that the hard way, but perhaps with even a few rounds preparation before a fray she can feel that she contributes without becoming another 'yet another Rune Lord.'

Or, with a different spell selection, she could have some very powerful melee magics prepared... Boon of Kargan Tor on the sword, Ward Against Weapons for defence, your Sorcerer's Shield above, Mend Flesh (using Fertility as an Inferred Rune from Death), Enhance (STR, CON, DEX), and Master Manipulator (the Manipulation variant of Logician... affects 1 Manipulation skill (including weapons) for roughly the same benefits).

 

8 hours ago, Enthar said:

It has been extremely illuminating.  

Ummm, that would require Illusory Sight to around 10 points or so, so Summon, Illusion & Fire (or, obviously, just learn Call Light and don't need the Illusion rune).

[Enthar]

3 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

I'm still wondering why you'd go this path, especially as the stroke has to actually hit the person somewhere to have an effect, and RL lightning does damage to that body part. Now, if you're talking just electricity, that's a different matter (slightly...).

I don't have a particular reason to go total hps vs target location other than it is functionally similar to Wall of Flame.  A real world argument could be made for either when lighting is involved, but as I am learning Glorantha only casually obeys the 'real world', so it is not a hill I'll choose to die on.  If the game balance is better served by a hit location, let us do that.

Lightning Stroke                                (Air)(Summon)
2pts
Ranged, Instant
Starting from the hands (or appropriate item) of the sorcerer, and forming a column 1 meter in diameter and 9 meters long, a stroke of lighting is formed for an instant, followed by a thunderclap as the stroke dissipates.  The stroke inflicts damage to a random hit location of anyone in the area of effect, with the amount determined by consulting the Sorcery Strength table.  Mundane armor does not protect against this damage, although magical armor and spells do.  For each level of strength added to the spell, the length affected increases by 1 meter. The stroke may light nearby flammable materials, and the thunder clap afterwards may deafen anyone struck for 1d10+5 rounds if the strength of the spell overcomes their Con on the resistance table.

 

3 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

Don't use Range here. That's purely for the distance a spell can be cast at. Change this to be part of the Intensity/Strength - so she'll have to choose between HP and Hit Locations.

Sorcerer's Shield                    (Movement)(Illusion)(Earth)(Combination)
4pts
Personal, Passive, Temporal
For the duration of the spell, an invisible shield of illusionary sensation is formed which hovers near the caster.  The base shield has 1 HP and covers one hit location (front or back, but not both for a single point).  Each point of spell strength increases the HP of the shield by 1 or adds one contiguous hit location to the area of protection.  For larger or smaller casters than the human average, adjust the cost of additional hit locations proportionately.  Damage which exceeds the HP of the shield penetrates it to strike the hit location behind it.  If desired, the protected hit locations can be changed by concentrating on the spell for one melee round, as long as they all remain connected.

3 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

Or, with a different spell selection, she could have some very powerful melee magics prepared... Boon of Kargan Tor on the sword, Ward Against Weapons for defence, your Sorcerer's Shield above, Mend Flesh (using Fertility as an Inferred Rune from Death), Enhance (STR, CON, DEX), and Master Manipulator (the Manipulation variant of Logician... affects 1 Manipulation skill (including weapons) for roughly the same benefits).

I concur, a melee focused Sorcerer who takes a week to cast season long buffs and then wades into combat can be a formidable foe.  It is just not the character type she wants to play.  It isn't so much effectiveness she is after (although I assure you, she is perfectly capable of munchinking the heck out of things), but style.

3 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

Ummm, that would require Illusory Sight to around 10 points or so, so Summon, Illusion & Fire (or, obviously, just learn Call Light and don't need the Illusion rune).

🙂 🙂

Thank you for the help!

[soltakss]

On 3/12/2023 at 7:48 PM, jajagappa said:

Mythically, lightning falls under Fire, but you want to draw it into storm-like conditions (i.e. particularly including the thunderclap). I'd likely play this as: Summon - Fire - Combine - Air.  Which means it would be a 4 pt spell which feels like if you consider the strength of the Rune spells Lightning (equal to 2 MP) and Thunderbolt equal to 6 MP).

Pah! It depends on who you ask.

Umath had Lightning, being the first Storm God. Shargash pulled lightning bolts from Umath's head after he killed him, so gained the power of Lightning. Then Lightning Boy was rescued from Shargash and became part of the Storm again.

So, Lightning has always been a power of Air/Storm, in the same way that Tin was always the Storm Metal, even though some Sky Deities claimed it after they looted Umath's body.

[Godlearner]

5 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

Boon of Kargan Tor on the sword, Ward Against Weapons for defence, your Sorcerer's Shield above, Mend Flesh (using Fertility as an Inferred Rune from Death), Enhance (STR, CON, DEX), and Master Manipulator (the Manipulation variant of Logician... affects 1 Manipulation skill (including weapons) for roughly the same benefits).

I am counting at least 2 Techniques and 6 Runes. With most spells costing more than base to cast due to Insight. 

This is problem when you start adding Runes and Techniques to new spells. 

13 hours ago, Enthar said:

Sorcerer's Shield                    (Movement)(Illusion)(Earth)(Combination)
4pts
Personal, Passive, Temporal
For the duration of the spell, an invisible shield of illusionary sensation is formed which hovers near the caster.  The base shield has 1 HP and covers one hit location (front or back, but not both for a single point).  Each point of spell strength increases the HP of the shield by 1.  Additional points of range intensity will cover one additional contiguous hit location.  For larger or smaller casters than the human average, adjust the cost proportionately.  Damage which exceeds the HP of the shield penetrates it, and reduces the strength of the shield by 1 point.  If desired, the protected hit locations can be changed by concentrating on the spell for one melee round.

Assume you have a sorcerer with this spell and have him cast it as an example. Lets say he has an INT of 18 and has mastered all of these runes and tecniques. Now cast the spell. How much will it protect for? for how long? How many magic points will it cost? My point is that is too expensive for any benefit it may grant.

[jajagappa]

2 hours ago, soltakss said:

Umath had Lightning, being the first Storm God. Shargash pulled lightning bolts from Umath's head after he killed him, so gained the power of Lightning. Then Lightning Boy was rescued from Shargash and became part of the Storm again.

If a sorcerer knows that myth and can follow its logical trail, then, yes, I think that's viable. 

[Enthar]

5 hours ago, Godlearner said:

Assume you have a sorcerer with this spell and have him cast it as an example. Lets say he has an INT of 18 and has mastered all of these runes and tecniques. Now cast the spell. How much will it protect for? for how long? How many magic points will it cost? My point is that is too expensive for any benefit it may grant.

You could put up 8 points of protection for 5 minutes over your entire front for 17 MP (4 base + 13 intensity).  Compared to Ward against Weapons, which will do the same thing against an 8 point hit for 16 MP (well, 95% of the time).  Ward won't protect your belongings, SS does, ward doesn't care from where you are attacked, SS does, etc.

I definitely don't want it to be too weak, is there some change you would make that sounds reasonable?  18 MP and 14 Free INT are well within her capabilities, and it seems comparable on the surface to Ward, so I wasn't worried at until this point.

[Godlearner]

1 minute ago, Enthar said:

17 MP (4 base + 13 intensity

You better count again if any of those runes or techniques are unmastered and with 4, some most likely will be. BTW, that will take about 3 rounds to cast.

"Using an unmastered technique or Rune costs double the magic points, and if a sorcerer tries to cast a spell with a Rune and a technique they have not mastered, the magic point cost is multiplied by 4 (essentially, doubled twice)."

 

[Enthar]

13 minutes ago, Godlearner said:

You better count again if any of those runes or techniques are unmastered and with 4, some most likely will be. BTW, that will take about 3 rounds to cast.

"Using an unmastered technique or Rune costs double the magic points, and if a sorcerer tries to cast a spell with a Rune and a technique they have not mastered, the magic point cost is multiplied by 4 (essentially, doubled twice)."

 

Certainly! The assumptions you gave me were, however, that all the runes and techniques were mastered.  Mastering two for Ward vs 4 for this spell is definitely easier and thus an advantage, but my player has all 4 because of her previous investment in illusion spells.  Your mileage may vary, but I was mostly going for "this won't break my campaign and force me to nerf it two fights in", while still being useful enough that she would desire to learn and use it.