Dragon Pass Sun Dome/Sun County

[Nick Brooke]

As you point out, either relocation or expulsion would have been thematically-appropriate Bronze Age options, which @svensson passes over for some reason ("We have to enslave them or massacre them, there is no conceivable third way!"). Personally, I think making the Sun Dome Templars in Dragon Pass reliant on an enslaved helot population is unnecessarily problematic for modern readers, and am glad this element has been retconned. Getting rid of the somehow-extant Elmal cult of Sartar at the same time brings us much closer to the Dragon Pass we know from the boardgame, the RuneQuest Classics and the Stafford Library, so basically (once again) it seems that everything is moving in a sensible direction, with occasional weird twitches.

The Dragon Pass Sun Dome Temple is proudly independent of the Kingdom of Sartar. Its champions are delighted to contest with Orlanthi for ritual purposes, and sometimes they even win and get the girl. They became wealthy in the Lunar Occupation by serving as mercenaries for friendly Governors-General, and they'll get rich again in the Hero Wars by hiring themselves out to anybody looking for security in these increasingly-troubled times, especially the Count's good friend Prince Argrath of Sartar.

Their ancient traditions were written, revised or rediscovered by Tarkalor's companion Monrogh some fifty to seventy years ago, after he'd visited the Sun Dome Temple in Prax and learned how things were meant to work. He also innovated, informed by his heroquesting experiences in Teshnos, Land of Fire: his "Vision of the Many Suns" was what brought the Elmali into the Sun Dome Temple, while freeing Yelmalio from the at times overbearing presence of Father Yelm.

It seems their population is mostly made up of Elmali converts from various tribes of Sartar and East Tarsh, plus a few oppressed remnants of the Kitori around the edges: the latter, of course, are not Sun Domers, and there aren't enough of them for the Sun Domers to go "Full Spartan". Also, I wouldn't be at all surprised to find cultists who were brought up in other Sun Dome Temples relocating to the temple in Dragon Pass, either when it was founded or subsequently. That's what Rurik does, after all!

[svensson]

1 hour ago, Nick Brooke said:

As you point out, either relocation or expulsion would have been thematically-appropriate Bronze Age options, which @svensson passes over for some reason ("We have to enslave them or massacre them, there is no conceivable third way!").

I passed the expulsion solution by because the Yelmalion faith seems to be particularly vulnerable to theological doctrines that can lead to societal dead ends. For Sky pantheon worshipers, the world seems to be a very binary place: yes or no not maybe, enemy or ally not neutral.

The Yelmalio worldview doesn't easily allow for a third option for 'heathen Darkness worshipers'. Because the Kitori were from a diametrically opposed pantheon and then were conquered by the 'forces of Light and Right', the Sky pantheon viewpoint justifies the serfdom of engeshi for doctrinaire theological reasons. Light must defeat Darkness and constantly be seen to do so. To the Light Priests, the solution was either servitude or death.

And because of that, the Sun County of Amber Fields must constantly keep a standing army at home to keep engeshi subservient.

[Nick Brooke]

7 hours ago, svensson said:

But in 1600ST Glorantha the only other option was to massacre the Kitori.

Ok, you do you. Have fun oppressing the natives!

[svensson]

12 minutes ago, Nick Brooke said:

Ok, you do you. Have fun oppressing the natives!

I was just trying to stay consistent with how the Sky pantheon is portrayed. They seem to have a distinctly 'Old Testament' vibe to them.

Do we have a source on the retcon, or is that expected in the Dragon Pass sourcebook?

Edited March 31, 2023 by svensson

[M Helsdon]

2 hours ago, Nick Brooke said:

Their ancient traditions were written, revised or rediscovered by Tarkalor's companion Monrogh some fifty to seventy years ago, after he'd visited the Sun Dome Temple in Prax and learned how things were meant to work. He also innovated, informed by his heroquesting experiences in Teshnos, Land of Fire: his "Vision of the Many Suns" was what brought the Elmali into the Sun Dome Temple, while freeing Yelmalio from the at times overbearing presence of Father Yelm.

This is a fundamental point. Modern Vanntar, the Sun Dome of Sartar is the manifestation of Monrogh's visions.

And his interpretation of those visions. In our history, numerous visionaries have sought to remold their cultures to match their visions; these visionaries are remembered as prophets, fundamentalists, lawgivers, revolutionaries, heroes - and monsters. 

The Sun Dome culture of Prax is an outlier and survival of the Second Age Yelmalion cult, isolated, xenophobic, and probably atypical in many ways of the Sun Domes of Saird, most of which have a long unbroken tradition (or unbroken traditions). The Sairdite Sun Domes never lost their horses, for example.

The Solar culture of Teshnos is very different from the Solar cultures of Peloria; the one possible influence is the presence of several Solar deities, unknown, or at least unrecognized by a Sartarite. Interestingly, the Little Sun is not a major figure in their pantheon.

Whatever Monrogh brought back served for the creation of an invigorated Elmal cult, now rebranded as Yelmalion, in Sartar. The one definite thing it shares with the Sairdite Sun Domes is the antipathy towards Darkness. I suspect that the Cult write-ups of Yelmalio will reflect Monrogh's version of the cult in southern Dragon Pass.

[It's interesting that in Greg's draft Army List for White Bear, Red Moon, the Yelmalions were relatively hi-tech, with not only pikes, but repeating chariot mounted ballista, and their shields bore an an upwards pointing arrow denoting their philosophy of Progress. That's all long gone, save for the phalangite phalanxes.]

Edited March 31, 2023 by M Helsdon

[Nick Brooke]

13 minutes ago, M Helsdon said:

[It's interesting that in Greg's draft Army List for White Bear, Red Moon, the Yelmalions were relatively hi-tech, with not only pikes, but repeating chariot mounted ballista, and their shields bore an an upwards pointing arrow denoting their philosophy of Progress. That's all long gone, save for the phalangite phalanxes.]

An "upwards-pointing chevron" is also, of course, the Spartan "Lambda" (as seen in "300"), and the most distinctive element of the planetary Rune for the solar war-god Shargash/Tolat. Just putting that out there.

[M Helsdon]

21 minutes ago, Nick Brooke said:

An "upwards-pointing chevron" is also, of course, the Spartan "Lambda" (as seen in "300"), and the most distinctive element of the planetary Rune for the solar war-god Shargash/Tolat. Just putting that out there.

As described, the original Yelmalion 'arrow' was probably reassigned as Pamalt's Spear, with a very different meaning.

I misremembered - the original Yelmalio symbol was a spear.

Edited March 31, 2023 by M Helsdon

[Richard S.]

1 hour ago, svensson said:

Do we have a source on the retcon, or is that expected in the Dragon Pass sourcebook?

Besides what Jeff's said in this thread, I can't find another source, though I'm 99% sure it was mentioned elsewhere several months back.

[Nick Brooke]

1 hour ago, Richard S. said:

Besides what Jeff's said in this thread, I can't find another source, though I'm 99% sure it was mentioned elsewhere several months back.

Facebook thread, back in May 2021:

[M Helsdon]

I'd completely forgotten revising that section of Armies & Enemies....

[DrGoth]

There' still all the Sun Domes in Peloria.

[John Biles]

Just some thoughts, which are not canon, just my canon:

The Elmali were horse-oriented, so the DP Sundomers maintain a force of cavalry in addition to their phalanx.  Their job is to shield the flanks of the phalanx, since phalanxes are not so good at quick turns.

After living in a clan structure for so long, it's not easily given up; the clans still exist, but no longer function as units of government - rather, they still structure who can marry each other, cooperate in agriculture, worship together, and so on.

Agriculture is largely similar to that of the Orlanthi in terms of food eaten and growing methods.

 

[Erol of Backford]

I suppose Mr. Brightspear, Light Captain of Yelmalio, being allied with the Durulz and sworn against Delecti, would fit right in along with the Lismelder quite nicely.

He might even be a Humakti at some point in his life... see clip below, I think its from a Hero Quest or Upland Marsh article, sorry I didn't note the source when I clipped it last year...

Also there is a hamlet named Better Harvest which I assume is somewhere along the stream, possibly where the red arrow is which is noted in RQ Adventures 01 Escape From Duckland. There are seven country bumpkins armed with long spears and soft leather led by Doloric Hempstead, a veteran of the Templars. I suppose these guys and Mr. Kilgorn along with Better Harvest might be tied into a campaign that has the Marsh and the Lismelder in it?

Hueymakt Deathdrake - Druulz God of Death & War Humakti Ducks, also in RQ Adventures 01.

We have an Elmali Acolyte want to be based in Backford and are making ties to there via a file rotation that wants to learn to fight chaos. Its set up now that Mr. Brightspear is married to the sister of the Bishop of Backford. Non canon of course but works for us.