Starter Set non-human pregens

[Alex]

On 8/8/2024 at 4:45 PM, g33k said:

The issue is ethical, not moral.

I dunno which of the many possible slender distinctions you have in mind between "ethics" and "morality", but quibble with my "elegant" variation in paraphrasing you noted.  Either way it seems rather overwrought.  is an announcement a "promise" that it's a grave personal or professional failing?  If so, then there's few saints indeed in the entire RPG industry indeed.

On 8/8/2024 at 4:32 PM, g33k said:

31 months... but who's counting?

And who correctly?  An announcement doesn't retroactively become "unfulfilled" when it was made, that happens at the date it announced that item for.  Which here is clearly "end of 2022".  HTH.

On 8/4/2024 at 8:04 PM, g33k said:

I am expecting them in the "Sartar book" ...  Possibly even in the next-up DP book?

Not the DP book, IMO.   That looks like it's going to be the usual atlas/gazetteer type pf format, so mentions of the Telmori would be under categories like "list of top places in Dragon Pass to get your face chewed off by angry furries", rather than "chargen a rounded local".  SB seems very possible, but all depending on priorities and weighting.  "You can't have everything, where would you put it."  But I know no more than you, so this is all speculation on my part.

[g33k]

On 8/8/2024 at 11:11 AM, svensson said:

Dragon Pass book is set to release in October. I asked this in a Q&A post.

Yep.
If full char-gen rules are coming for the Telmori, though, I'm expecting that in the (out later) "Sartar book," as one of the tribes of Sartar, not the general "Dragon Pass Gazetteer..." tho I do see the argument that they belong in the Hsunchen book.

[Alex]

58 minutes ago, g33k said:

[...] the (out later) "Sartar book," [...]

Potentially third in the queue, even.

[Jason Farrell]

On 8/6/2024 at 3:02 PM, g33k said:

I think using "obligation" here carries a connotation of a legal/contractual obligation, that I don't believe exists.
Nevertheless, I agree:  an obligation -- at least an ethical obligation -- exists, to fulfill that promise.

And whether you round "2 years and some months" to 2 years or to 3 years... it has been a very, very long wait. 

The connotation I intended was that it's an ethical obligation.  Of course they aren't legally bound to ever make them, or anything, but I think advertising that you're going to expand the character options creates a reasonable expectation among your customers that you'll make a good faith effort to make good on that in a not too distant timeframe.

[Shiningbrow]

On 8/2/2024 at 12:12 AM, g33k said:

Something that will generate cash is more likely to climb the queue; freebies are pretty low-priority.

Except... It's not simply a 'freebie' for interested fans (particularly long-standing ones) or those who bought the SS.

What it is is showcasing just how different RQG is from basically any other game! It's how RQ isn't D&D.

One of the biggest attraction for most of us is the way non-human characters are not simply humans in a different form (like D&D elves, dwarves, Assimar, Tieflings, and any other character you create). What gets gamer's ears up about RQ is when I mention you can play as a duck!

So, I'd say - any good marketing director should have been on their back about this a LONG time ago, telling them to get this out ASAP - so that it generates so much more interest! And, I'd even suggest making it a total "freebie" to everyone, whether they've bought the Starter Set or not.

So, if you've got a GM who's interested in showcasing (even a one-shot) of RQG, you can tell your potentially interested players "YOu can play as a human... or a human.... or as a human...". (I'm quite sure we can imagine how that will go down"...)

OR... you can tell your potentially interested players, "You can play as a human... or a shapeshifter/werewolf type, or a duck, or an 'aldryami' that's actually a walking tree, or a trollkin that rides a giant beetle, or a ..?? Baboon? Centaur?? Or ?? a Morokanth (a creature that herds humans like we herd other animals)..." (what exactly will be going into this??)

 

Honestly, if Chaosium can't see the massive value from the interest that can be aroused by this, then I have no idea what's going on in their minds... maybe they want RQG to fail??? All for the sake of a couple of days of layout.... sheesh!

[Alex]

15 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

Honestly, if Chaosium can't see the massive value from the interest that can be aroused by this, then I have no idea what's going on in their minds... maybe they want RQG to fail??? All for the sake of a couple of days of layout.... sheesh!

I concluded I had no idea what was going on in their minds a long time ago, but this one seems to be not the hardest to mentally model.  If this were already out, people would be saying -- at some marginal rate at least -- "OMG, we're getting fripperies like duck pregens...  but no 'Homeland' set for Sartar, the place the ducks are from.  Cart before the horse!  And no other Homelands either!!  Or GM book!!!  Or--"  etc, etc.

OTOH, I won't claim to know why "layout" is the single point of failure on something that doesn't seem to especially need much in the way of layout.  On points of length, of nature of the content, and frankly on "hey it's free" QA.  Give it to the wide-eyed intern you're paying in Industry Experience and getting to have the occasional beer with Famous Game Designers on a "how hard can this be?" basis.  No?  No.  Unclear to me why not though.

But again, much as in theory the squeaky wheel, etc, maybe there's not a lot to add until Sartar comes out.  Then at least we'd be able to say "so wouldn't this be a good time?!?"

[Shiningbrow]

2 hours ago, Alex said:

If this were already out, people would be saying -- at some marginal rate at least -- "OMG, we're getting fripperies like duck pregens...  but no 'Homeland' set for Sartar, the place the ducks are from.  Cart before the horse!  And no other Homelands either!!  Or GM book!!!  Or--"  etc, etc.

No doubt.

However, the Sartar book is what many people are craving for, which takes a LONG time (relatively speaking) to put out there, and will only be picked up by those who have already gotten into the game. The NHI Pre-gens is something that will get a LOT of new people into the game (and then, maybe, wanting to buy Sartar).

I do think you're partly right about the 'marginal rate', given that having these NHI pre-gens will help them out a bit as well. And, I would think that most people will recognise the vast differences in productions between them. (let alone the fact that it was 'promised' 31 months ago...)

[Alex]

On a very general point, I know Chaosium are loath to create exactly this sort of rod for their own backs.  And for exactly this reason -- witness the zeal with which people duly beat them with it!  But for the things that we're assured are "MS done, editing done, art done, just waiting on layout then printing" it would be a courtesy, and surely relatively "safe" in these terms, to keep us in the loop on what the current thinking is as to their relative position in the queue.  Like "sorry, won't be done at least until Cults is done and dusted", "fingers crossed soon after Sartar", or whatever.  Especially when the hostage to fortune has already been given once, as here...

[RandomNumber]

I confess I'm not that fussed about the Non-Human Pregens.  I have the Bestiary, I can surely make a Non-Human PreGen if I want to - close enough at least. We've never felt much need to go non-human.  There's so much rich variety in the cultures and the cults that a change of race is only of marginal utility in my group. Horses for courses, I suppose.

I sometimes get a bit hot and bothered about having to wait at least six years for the Gamemasters Guide but buying something from the JC tends to soothe my troubled nerves.

Chaosium has wisely adopted the policy of the House of Windsor, "Never complain, never explain."  I imagine them getting out a couple of beers and some popcorn on a Friday afternoon to read these threads 🙂

[Kettlehelm]

Bit worrying these are still not out yet.

Cults is one thing but to not have a few pages of pre-written and pre-drawn pages avaliable years later suggests a lack of organisation.

[AndreJarosch]

1 hour ago, Kettlehelm said:

Bit worrying these are still not out yet.

Cults is one thing but to not have a few pages of pre-written and pre-drawn pages avaliable years later suggests a lack of organisation.

For me it suggests that the makers (authors, editors, etc) were to enthusiastically speaking about it, before a scheduled date was set. 
I will not blame anyone for being enthusiastic about what he does. 

[Alex]

13 hours ago, AndreJarosch said:

I will not blame anyone for being enthusiastic about what he does. 

Yeah, before being overly critical of the Chaosium peeps on this, bear in mind the incentive structures you're setting up for them in doing so.  They may decide just to keep doing what they were gonna do anyway, but to shut down comms about it if that gets too much grief for them.  And as I recall, have said so on occasion, in terms...