Published Heroquests

[jajagappa]

4 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Agree, Hero Quests should be acid-trip strange and is a perfect analogy though I've not enjoyed that in my life, yet... 

I suppose the Persistence of Memory and a few other of Dail's or Escher's paintings could be possible visual enhancements, melting landscapes, giant green elf brians falling from the sky... make it all the more bizarre.

Sometimes the acid-trip strange works very well. I particularly like it for either: 1) the Spirit Plane (or Dream World) where things are brighter, more colorful and vibrant, and vaguely shifting; or 2) odd quests that you get pulled into unexpectedly (Nick's Black Spear quest is wonderful for this).

The Underworld, on the other hand, may sometimes be an acid-trip gone very, very wrong, but it's always bleak, barren, terrifying, etc. Nothing vibrant here! Even the realm of the Maggot Liege (dead Yelm) is layered with ash. Some of the classic illustrations of Dante's works are good here. 

4 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Curious if the hero points mechanic was ever spelled out more clearly than in the Bill Keys article Alebard's Quest in TotRM 05?

Different Hero Points mechanic I suspect than what was there (though haven't read that in a long time).  What is coming Jeff discussed or presented in one of the later episodes of the White Bull Campaign season 1.  It may have been refined since then, but works similar to Rune Points. Basically you have the opportunity to sacrifice POW to establish a Hero Point, which is a connection to the Gods World, rather than a specific deity. That you can then use to cast the Hero magic you have gained. However, you can't recover it via going to your temple like Rune Points. Instead, you have to have people Worship YOU.  You've got to convince your followers to sacrifice their energy (probably Magic Points) to restore your Hero Points.  

At least that was what I took out of the discussion - I may well have misinterpreted some of the approach.

[Brian Duguid]

13 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

giant green elf brians falling from the sky

I'm all for skydiving brians, sounds great!

[Brian Duguid]

9 hours ago, jajagappa said:

The Underworld, on the other hand, may sometimes be an acid-trip gone very, very wrong, but it's always bleak, barren, terrifying, etc. Nothing vibrant here!

Unless, of course you enter it on a troll or black elf heroquest, in which case it is a deep, dark, beautiful paradise which fills you with a sense of happiness and security?

[mfbrandi]

29 minutes ago, Brian Duguid said:

Unless, of course you enter it on a troll or black elf heroquest, in which case it is a deep, dark, beautiful paradise which fills you with a sense of happiness and security?

Unless Yelm ruined it? Unless you can’t go Wonderhome again? Unless it was always broken and we just blame Yelm’s sojourn there?

Depends how optimistic a Darkness heroquester you are?

(Darkness = hunger, dissatisfaction. Light = illumination, rest. To be played with, twisted, and subverted … of course.)

[Brian Duguid]

1 hour ago, mfbrandi said:

Unless Yelm ruined it? Unless you can’t go Wonderhome again? Unless it was always broken and we just blame Yelm’s sojourn there?

Getting increasingly off-topic, but there are many hells (uz believe in at least seven), and the big shiny sod may not have ruined them all. Its Gregginess is unclear (it was stated to be "by or based on material by Greg Stafford"), but there was a piece in Drastic/Darkness which explicitly split out the Hell ruined by Yelm from the Hell where Kyger Litor now resides (yes, no longer Wonderhome, but still the troll afterlife). All seven Hells known to the trolls are described there. There was an indication in a previous thread on this forum (by whoever was working on the new troll pack) that even these are just a small number of many more Underworld Hells.

Regardless of its Gregginess, that's broadly my working model. Of course, there is an easier way into the Underworld than by heroquesting, but that may not provide access to the more obscure parts of the Underworld.

[mfbrandi]

3 hours ago, Brian Duguid said:

Of course, there is an easier way into the Underworld than by heroquesting

Although, who is to say that slitting one’s own throat is not a good way to start a heroquest?

[Don’t try this at home, kids!]

[dumuzid]

22 minutes ago, mfbrandi said:

Although, who is to say that slitting one’s own throat is not a good way to start a heroquest?

[Don’t try this at home, kids!]

Gerra seems to prefer you start off with less terminal self-harm, but it's certainly getting into the Black Pyramid spirit

[soltakss]

On 4/24/2023 at 1:39 AM, Erol of Backford said:

Whatever happened to 1 point of will per 3 points of power and another for each 50% and 100% in each of the base cults skills, another for each cult membership, prient or rune lord status, Londra had 28 on Alebard's Quest...

Will doesn't really work for lots of reasons. The idea that you lose Will as you get closer to divinity meant that you became less powerful, which didn't work for me. 

I see it as an interesting backwater.

On 4/24/2023 at 9:25 AM, Brian Duguid said:

Am I the only one who is very slightly dreading the publication of Heroquest rules?

I don't know, all I know is that I am very much looking forward to them.

On 4/24/2023 at 9:25 AM, Brian Duguid said:

Fingers crossed that they don't give the impression that Heroquests must be run in only a certain way: that you can only interact with the Hero Plane (etc) using particular attributes; that success and failure are only measured in a certain manner; that there is a preferred "exemplar" of what a quest is for, how it progresses, etc.

I doubt that will be the case, but even if it is, so what? You can run HeroQuests however you like and in whatever way suits your game. I know that I do.

On 4/24/2023 at 9:25 AM, Brian Duguid said:

I'm looking at running a this-world Heroquest in an upcoming session (won't say more in case players are reading) and what I want with that is flexibility to do it however I want: whatever suits the characters, their stories, and the background material that will inform it.

Which is exactly the right way to do it, running a HeroQuest the way that suits your table.

On 4/24/2023 at 9:25 AM, Brian Duguid said:

What I really don't want is a set of rules that reduce that flexibility.

Again, so what if they do?

Take whatever you like from the rules and discard what you don't like. The rules are meant to guide and inspire you, not to be a straitjacket to constrain you. Do you think that I follow the normal RQ rules when I run a HeroQuest? If you do then you are sadly mistaken.

On 4/24/2023 at 10:46 AM, mfbrandi said:

No, you are not the only one:

• Not every important thing needs its own set of game mechanics.
• Heroquests should be able to get acid-trip strange, not just by-the-book odd.
• Heroquests should sometimes sneak up on the characters (and their players) — “When did the heroquest start?” “I don’t know, but we must have been in it a while.” — but if there is an obvious mechanical shift that could give the game away.
• If Chaosium makes a conceptual breakthrough and comes up with some genius new mechanic, will it suitable for all and only heroquests?
• Gloranthans speak of heroquests, but I suspect the things they speak of bear a family resemblance to each other rather than sharing some clearly defined essence.
• “Here are the rules of creative heroquesting — if your players think of something ‘outside the box’, it doesn’t work and it doesn’t count.”

But those are — of course — just worries, and I wouldn’t dignify them by calling them arguments against HQ rules. I may be wrong on every count.

Most of those points reflect how I run HeroQuests now, and how I will continue to run HeroQuests in the future.

On 4/24/2023 at 10:46 AM, mfbrandi said:

However, it must be said that in general, I hope that each publication will open up readers’ imaginations by making them think of things not on the page, rather than shutting them down by providing yet more detail to be observed. I suspect that that gets harder and harder as publications pile up seemingly trying to define Glorantha. Better to be allusive and/or contradict the last thing said than try to present something consistent and complete?

I hope that the new HeroQuest rules open up people's minds and cause them to think of things differently, in the same way that I hope my HeroQuest rules did the same.

And, again, if I see things I don't like in the new HeroQuesting rules then I'll change it or ignore it. I'll probably produce something that ties the new HeroQuesting rules to Secrets of HeroQuesting, or a least give ideas on how to use one with the other. That will give people more options, which is always good.

On 4/24/2023 at 10:46 AM, mfbrandi said:

Presumably, the notion of a heroquest is contested in-world, so do we want it nailed down at the meta, rules level? I don’t know.

Presumably, you mean in Glorantha when you say in-world. Why not have rules for things? You don't want different rules for each HeroQuest, or I don't, anyway, so I am not sure what you mean by at the meta-level.

On 4/24/2023 at 2:35 PM, radmonger said:

Maybe the premise of needing heroquest rules is wrong. 

A heroquest is just a scenario. The Spirit and God Planes are, when it comes down to it, just different locations for an scenario  to be set in.

Yes, I agree that a HeroQuest is just a scenario and where it is run are just places. However, they are different to normal scenarios.

On 4/24/2023 at 2:35 PM, radmonger said:

So you are not going to a nice complete logical map, like Argan Argar's Atlas. So maybe what is really needed is a series of sourcebooks for aspects of, or perspectives on,  the other side. Like the Spirit Lands, Storm Hills, Yelm's palace, the Underworld, ... 

That would be great for me, although I am not sure if there is a market for that.

On 4/24/2023 at 2:35 PM, radmonger said:

These sourcebooks would naturally include some sample scenarios to show how it is done, and the usual amount of new rules for in the form of skills or spells. But the fundamental goal is, if two people to read that book and independently write heroquests, both should feel like they belong in the same world. 

As with normal scenarios.

 

[Erol of Backford]

17 hours ago, Brian Duguid said:

I'm all for skydiving brians, sounds great!

Its from TotRM 05, those old zines, RQ Adventures, etc. are really good stuff, can't help but go back to them.

Giant green elf brians falling from the sky...

[Erol of Backford]

7 hours ago, soltakss said:

Will doesn't really work for lots of reasons. The idea that you lose Will as you get closer to divinity meant that you became less powerful, which didn't work for me. 

I see it as an interesting backwater.

I assumed you get it all back when you return to Glorantha?! So you use it on the god/hero plane and then get it back like magic points once you are back...

[Erol of Backford]

7 hours ago, soltakss said:

• Not every important thing needs its own set of game mechanics.
• Heroquests should be able to get acid-trip strange, not just by-the-book odd.
• Heroquests should sometimes sneak up on the characters (and their players) — “When did the heroquest start?” “I don’t know, but we must have been in it a while.” — but if there is an obvious mechanical shift that could give the game away.
• If Chaosium makes a conceptual breakthrough and comes up with some genius new mechanic, will it suitable for all and only heroquests?
• Gloranthans speak of heroquests, but I suspect the things they speak of bear a family resemblance to each other rather than sharing some clearly defined essence.
• “Here are the rules of creative heroquesting — if your players think of something ‘outside the box’, it doesn’t work and it doesn’t count.”

This is really good stuff for me, can't wait to get your book in the mail. Thanks!

[Shiningbrow]

On 4/24/2023 at 9:35 PM, radmonger said:

Maybe the premise of needing heroquest rules is wrong. 

A heroquest is just a scenario. The Spirit and God Planes are, when it comes down to it, just different locations for an scenario  to be set in.

 

I disagree with your first statement. Because of its very nature, it isn't just another scenario - it's a complete change of normalcy, and so the RQ rules don't apply,

Without some form of rules, there would be disagreements between players and GMs. Rules make it easier for both sides to know what to expect, and what can be done, and what sort of rewards one can expect.

[radmonger]

Just now, Shiningbrow said:

I disagree with your first statement. Because of its very nature, it isn't just another scenario - it's a complete change of normalcy, and so the RQ rules don't apply,

Not that many of the RQ rules actually describe and model normalcy; there are no sections for 'gravity' or 'causality'. 

when things work differently, you just need text saying 'Vingkot tells you you can fly now'. You don't work out  how many points of extension and multispell there are in the Flight spell he casts, deciding that means he is over the CHA cap for a rune pool, and so concluding 'therefor we need a different game system'.

Which is not to say that there aren't rules or tables that would be useful, just that mostly it is going to be descriptive text.