How to gain honour?

[Geoff R Evil]

Specifically as a Sartarite Humakti.

I would like to collate a list of actions that may result in an honour passion check.

Then a list of dishonourable actions.

Thanks

[Squaredeal Sten]

My own thoughts, YGMV:

Perhaps it's best to start with the basics and also check the Humakt geas list.

Humakti honor seems to include demonstrations that you are a formidable individual.

To gain: 

Formal one on one challenges.  

In general any in- game action in which honorable behavior is chosen despite a penalty or risk.  Yes I am begging the question on"honorabke".

To lose: Any deception.  Ambush.  Refusing a challenge.  

[soltakss]

Accepting the surrender of an opponent.

Keeping a prisoner safe and unharmed.

Letting a prisoner walk around freely if they have sworn not to try to escape.

Pursuing, or fulfilling, a vow.

Doing something that is disadvantageous to you because of Honour.

[Scornado]

Some good pointers can be gained from watching (and enjoying) the Chaosium White Bull house campaign on YouTube, where there is a very honourable follower of Humakt.

[Fencingmonkey]

12 hours ago, soltakss said:

Doing something that is disadvantageous to you because of Honour.

I think this is key, not just for Honor but all passions.

If a thane tells you to do something you wanted to do anyway, you can argue that’s Loyalty but it’s not really. When the passion interacts with another course of action — your thane tells you not to take revenge on the warrior who killed your brother — following the passion (refraining from attacking) feels like a check to me.

To that end, refusing to take opportunity of an ambush or joining an outnumbered fight, particularly when you probably need the advantage to win, sounds like honor. I also like the suggestion of taking a prisoner’s word, again especially if the rest of the party calls you a fool for it. 
 

n.b. I come from Pendragon where awarding checks, or even increasing a passion outright, frequently comes from indulging even if no roll is made. YGWV. 

[Akhôrahil]

12 hours ago, soltakss said:

Accepting the surrender of an opponent.

Keeping a prisoner safe and unharmed.

Letting a prisoner walk around freely if they have sworn not to try to escape.

Pursuing, or fulfilling, a vow.

Doing something that is disadvantageous to you because of Honour.

Successfully navigating a difficult hospitality situation.

Gaining revenge.

Participating in a proper duel, even if you lose.

Edited June 17, 2023 by Akhôrahil

[French Desperate WindChild]

On 6/17/2023 at 8:36 AM, Geoff R Evil said:

Specifically as a Sartarite Humakti.

I would like to collate a list of actions that may result in an honour passion check.

Then a list of dishonourable actions.

Thanks

there are different answers levels:

A), the list of actions and people before me give a lot of good ideas

B), how to gain the "check"

there are two ways to get the check :

1) just because you did something. For example "you succeed a quest about honor . I imagine for example a revenge quest, a temple/loyalty quest or any "oath" quest. I would give +10 / +20 honour depending on the quest, for those who want and only if they succeed "with" honor (so it means you must have honor tests during the scenario. However, that is not for an action, or just a scene but a full scenario

2) honor is a passion, if you use honor to augment your skill roll, you may gain a check.

C) and of course you may lose honor (or any passion). What I do there is to tell your player : what you want to do is against your passion, are you sure you want to continue ? If yes, roll the passion

- If you succeed the honor roll, you do what you want and lose 10% (or 20 or ... depending on the action)

- If a special, same thing, but you lose maybe 20% or 30% (and if there is any roll to succeed the decided action , then penalty)

- If a critic, psychologic issue, the player, in addition of previous impacts, should imagine a oath or something the pc should have... Ok the action is done but the pc has to "punish" herself

- If you failed the passion, you don't see any issue with your honor. However there is an impact, as per raw

 

 

 

[Geoff R Evil]

Thx everyone. I just found it perplexing that the RQG rule book defines how to lose honour but not how to gain it, and reversing things like “participate in an ambush” does not give you a positive roll.

what I like is the idea that every species/cult will define its own honour system. 
Most people see Humakti as death cultists, forgetting they represent truth too, in fact as the only son of Umath son not born of violence, I might argue there is scope to run a Humakt dedicated to the truth side of the cult more than death, and to me that creates new options to consider how to play honourably and gain honour.

such as:

exposing or defending the truth even at the cost to oneself or a close friend or family member

Convincing another the truth is a better way

taking an oath

accepting there is more than one truth when someone offers their perspective…then supporting it even to one’s own detriment

etc

 

 

 

[JRE]

My regular game has a Duck Humakti, so we decided beforehand on what is Honor for him, mixing Duck insecurities with the typical Humakti preferences, and the fact that he has sworn to use his life to protect someone else that saved him and his family during the Duck Hunt That way we know when he can use Honor to increase rolls (uphold what he knows is true, protect his charge, challenge duck killers) and what actions he may have to fail honor or decrease his honor (lie, refuse a challenge unless it is a trap or a rigged contest. abandon his charge, spending too long without paying his time and tithe to the cult...).

[French Desperate WindChild]

On 6/20/2023 at 5:27 PM, Geoff R Evil said:

what I like is the idea that every species/cult will define its own honour system. 

Most people see Humakti as death cultists, forgetting they represent truth too, in fact as the only son of Umath son not born of violence, I might argue there is scope to run a Humakt dedicated to the truth side of the cult more than death, and to me that creates new options to consider how to play honourably and gain honour.

that was my idea too

However, the "canon" is that honor is the shared system of warriors values at least in the dragon pass.

So that's not a question of race ( few trolls are maybe "honorable", however that's not the main value in troll society so we don't care)

Not a question of cult : same honor between Orlanth and Humakt, but more important for Humakt cult than for Orlanth cult (that is important, but having just the minimum is not an issue)

 

so the key word "Honor" is clear in the rule book (of course you may decide to change it for your game, just keep in mind that is not the official rule 🙂 )

 

but, writting this post I imagine something else, beside the honor passion :

"(sub)cult XXX values " passion

"homeland XXX values" passion

then you  can have what you want. That may answer my issue that a honor is not only, in my modern irl definition, just a question of warrior. A scribe may have a honor system where fighting means nothing (always tell the truth, never make mistake, pay attention to the script quality - graph, grammar, content, material -, etc...)

 

in another hand, some would use "loyalty homeland", "devotion god" to express that. After all the god can be seen as what you should do to be "better"

 

in another other hand (not chaotic feature, don't burn me, Orlanth has more than three 😛 ) you can too use the rune :

your example about the truth is clear :

On 6/20/2023 at 5:27 PM, Geoff R Evil said:

exposing or defending the truth even at the cost to oneself or a close friend or family member

Convincing another the truth is a better way

taking an oath

accepting there is more than one truth when someone offers their perspective…then supporting it even to one’s own detriment

etc

that could be seen as your % in truth rune.

 

so you/we have a large range of options after all

creating more passions

considering (remembering ?) the runes are like passion too

using other "classic passion" like devotion

and then your pcs would be compatible with other games, as you don't change the honor's meaning (but of course i don't see any issue to do what you propose, I'm just sharing another perspective 🙂 )

 

[Rodney Dangerduck]

2 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

that was my idea too

However, the "canon" is that honor is the shared system of warriors values

Your initial idea is correct.  Honor varies, slightly, by culture and individual.
Ignore "canon" on Honor.  (... minor rant deleted... )

[French Desperate WindChild]

7 hours ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

Your initial idea is correct.  Honor varies, slightly, by culture and individual.
Ignore "canon" on Honor.  (... minor rant deleted... )

bah, for me the word is not so important

what i understand is there is "One way of the warrior" shared everywhere in dragon pass. that's the important point.

Of course I can build sect or any community following other values or even individuals, (ambush is fine for sect X, not accept a duel with a clearly weaker opponent for community Z), but the majority shares the same definition (list of values / good actions / wrong actions)

 

by the way it seems to me that an humakti has no issue to fight against a weak opponent, if this opponent wants to fight. I would not call it honor (in my referential)

[Geoff R Evil]

I agree and accept Honour as a passion is largely a warrior code, mostly applied and accepted by Humakt strongly, Orlanth when convenient.

But a warrior is tied to many runes and these can affect the way they honourably interpret the warriors code. To me the warriors code is not solely a combat thing, it’s how a warrior comports themselves both in combat and as a person in society, how they seek to avoid combat when appropriate (there is always another way), how they support their followers or community, how the treat with even the worst of enemies.

my central question remains - what actions are seen to potentially increase one’s honour?
 

[hipsterinspace]

29 minutes ago, Geoff R Evil said:

my central question remains - what actions are seen to potentially increase one’s honour?

My ruling would be from following the code when it becomes inconvenient, especially at significant personal cost, be it health, wealth, status, or progress towards the character’s goal. Upholding honor through hardship is the true test, and I’d say it demonstrates enough of commitment to warrant it.

[Geoff R Evil]

OK after discussion with my group, here is the list of honourable objectives I have set for my truth first Humakti.

1. never lie

2. Defend the truth no matter the cost to wealth or reputation

3. lead others to recant lies or face up to an unacknowledged truth

4. Courtesy to all house and clan guests

5. Never break an oath or force another’s honourable oath to be broken

6. Defend the weak who need justice

7. bring oath breakers to justice

8. justice before vengeance

this is my characters idea of acting honourably and helping to sustain or improve his clan society. Your Honour May Vary YHMV

 

[Rodney Dangerduck]

I strongly agree with the idea of letting the player, in conjunction with the GM and group, decide what is their PC's concept of Honor.

[Baron Wulfraed]

On 6/30/2023 at 10:42 AM, Geoff R Evil said:

OK after discussion with my group, here is the list of honourable objectives I have set for my truth first Humakti.

1. never lie

Geas die roll 61