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SDLeary

BRP Magic

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I'm inclined to agree with Agentorange. If there's an 'optional' rule in the core rule book, then by definition the rule it replaces is also 'optional'.

Not to belabor the point, but that's not the way I see it. There are 'core' rules, and 'optional' rules. The core rules are the 'lingua franca' of the system. The stuff that at a bare minimum is expected to be the baseline of commonality for all players. Optional rules are just that: options to tweak the system in various thematic directions.

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I've only read the introductory section, but it closes with a discussion of DEX ranks that is quite different from how I interpret them and how my group plays them.

You are correct. This looks like an error in translation between DEX and Strike Ranks; I thought I'd caught this originally, but apparently not. I'll create updated text for this section, post it here, and send it to Charlie for errata.

Simply, the intent was that a spell is cast on DEX-(power point cost of spell). If the PP cost happens to be more than the caster has DEX ranks, it would wrap around to the following turn. This mostly is only a problem with Wizardry spells, in which fiddling with the various category types can make a spell that costs a ton of Power Points.

Thanks for pointing that out.

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Simply, the intent was that a spell is cast on DEX-(power point cost of spell). If the PP cost happens to be more than the caster has DEX ranks, it would wrap around to the following turn. This mostly is only a problem with Wizardry spells, in which fiddling with the various category types can make a spell that costs a ton of Power Points.

Well, it looks very much like DEX Ranks rules for powers in the cole rulebook, doesn't it?

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Not to belabor the point, but that's not the way I see it. There are 'core' rules, and 'optional' rules. The core rules are the 'lingua franca' of the system. The stuff that at a bare minimum is expected to be the baseline of commonality for all players. Optional rules are just that: options to tweak the system in various thematic directions.

Quite simply - core rules are the default. Optional rules replace the core rules.

Ian

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I have to say that I am very disappointed. The BRP rules for DEX rank and the rules for strike rank got all mixed up. The rules on casting time are particularly problematic. Spells like Mobility are now worded so that they don't really work the way BRP works. I find that the original Basic Magic is more useful that this new translation. I understand that the project went through a few too many changes in personnel, and I understand that it was a bit rushed, but the final product should not have seen print. My group was ready to buy five copies, and now that has dropped to just the copy that I picked up. Very very disappointing.

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I have to say that I am very disappointed. The BRP rules for DEX rank and the rules for strike rank got all mixed up. The rules on casting time are particularly problematic. Spells like Mobility are now worded so that they don't really work the way BRP works. I find that the original Basic Magic is more useful that this new translation. I understand that the project went through a few too many changes in personnel, and I understand that it was a bit rushed, but the final product should not have seen print. My group was ready to buy five copies, and now that has dropped to just the copy that I picked up. Very very disappointing.

Your right about Mobility. Totally missed that one. It should probably read:

"Each point of this spell adds one to your MOV attribute for the duration of the spell." I'll confirm this and get back to the forum.

As to other issues, please be specific. They can't be addressed by writers or the community unless we see them.

SDLeary

Edited by SDLeary

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Your right about Mobility. Totally missed that one. It should probably read:

"Each point of this spell adds one to your MOV attribute for the duration of the spell." I'll confirm this and get back to the forum.

This is what the writer intended.

Any other questions, please post!

Thanks

SDLeary

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These were from a quick review:

1. On page 10 stike rank is mentioned under instant duration. Also the DEX rank delay seems odd given the powers rules in BRP and the nature of DEX ranks.

2. The magic skill bonus is mentioned but it is never defined. The references to other old RQ3 books show up throughout the book.

3. under aborting a spell on page 11 it mentions waiting 3 DEX ranks. This is one of many places where DEX rank and strike rank were not sorted out and fixed.

4. The spell casting during melee rules on page 11 are all kinds of wrong ... adding spell costs to DEX rank, permisable actions in a round, DEX rank less than 10?, spell casting spilling over to a second round?

5. I know what "pennies" were meant to be, but it is never defined in the book.

6. The new knowledge skills don't sync with BRP. It would have been nice to have them defined and define which careers in BRP have access to them.

7. On page 15 there is a mention of the Spirit Plane Encounter Table but it is not in the book. I know that it's in the old GMs book, but that doesn't help new BRP players. Furthermore there are no stats for the different types of spirits. That make being a shaman kinda difficult.

8. Darkwall: the movement mechanic doesn't seem to fit BRP. Is it a non-combat action? Light wall has a typo that mentions the distance but not the "per DEX rank" part.

9. Silence: uses the old sneak skill rather than stealth.

10. Slow: includes the mention of fatigue which has mostly been removed from the book.

11. On page 31 the concentration rules mention a move of a half meter per DEX rank. Again this is a place where SR seems to have been replaced with a reference to DEX ranks without considering the way movement is handled in BRP.

12. ENC is mentioned throughout the book but it is an optional rule. Seems to me that any effect on optional rules should have been called out in a sidebar just like optional rules in the main rule book.

13. In the religions section there are a number of references to old RQ3 skills. Also several gods have their headers wrong. The "Divine Magic" heading is not on a new line (or in bold) for the Earth, Trickster, Under World, and War gods.

14. Berserk: There is a big section regarding damage to hit locations. Since this is an optional rule it seems out of place.

15. Heal Body and Heal Wound under BRP seem redundant since there are no hit locations. They both would effect hit points. These two spells need work. Then there is Regrow Limb - again, without the use of hit locations, this seems out of place.

There is more, but the ones I have here are a symptom of the overall problem. The Magic Book is not integrated with BRP. Frankly the older Basic Magic book works just as well.

I was expecting a true BRP adaptation of the old RQ magic systems, with due consideration given to all of the optional rules, but this book is not working for me.

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Great! Chaosium showed that they can compete with Mongoose on their own terrain. I'm going to use these rules in conjunction with "Cults of Glorantha 2" for MRQ1: combined they will make perfect sense! Those who have that book know what I mean.

Sarcasm apart, this is SO sad and I feel so stupid having ordered this unusable "adaptation" in the latest sale. They are really taking advanage of the stupid loyalty of a bunch of fans like me and finishing dilapidating what remains of the goodwill capital attached to their brand since a long gone age when they put forth quality products.

I am sorry but there is a difference between a small company with scarce means and a company that just does not give a damn about what their throwing out. Chaosium seems more the second than the first. When was the last time they did anything half decent in-house?

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Crosswiredmind,

I've passed you points up to the writer/editor. Not sure the timeframe for a response, but I'll post them as soon as I can after receiving them.

Thanks Much! :)

SDLeary

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Great! Chaosium showed that they can compete with Mongoose on their own terrain.

Hello Andrea,

I can understand why you are so disappointed. But do you think that this kind of comment can really help to improve the quality of future products?

The list of "Stuff that had better been checked before printing" is on its way to the writers. Let us hope that everything can be fixed with a small errata sheet.

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I can understand why you are so disappointed. But do you think that this kind of comment can really help to improve the quality of future products?

Do you think it will hurt? It probably won't make much difference to the quality of Chaosium's future products because don't seem to pay much attention to this forum. The proper place for such comments and lists of deficiencies, however, is in a proper review of the book - a review that people will read. If word gets back to Chaosium that people are disappointed with their products, and sales also drop off, then maybe - just maybe - they'll pay attention and make a change for future products. That's market forces at work.

The list of "Stuff that had better been checked before printing" is on its way to the writers.
Shouldn't this list have been sent to the writers before printing? Edited by Thalaba

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Even considering all those problems, BRP's Big Gold Book is good. The faults are totally forgiveable, given the monumental task of drawing-together all the different variations into a unified "BRP". And surely that was it's main objective? The major benefit for us is that we now have a system that is in print.

While we're moaning, though, I will say that "In Search of the Trollslayer" (the only official Chaosium BRP straight fantasy scenario, right?) does suffer from dreadful production errors. Paragraphs out of place, map-scale different from textual descriptions. That made it difficult to use.

Edited by frogspawner

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I've got to apologize and eat a heaping helping of crow for the errors in this book. I swear I thought I'd caught all this stuff; maybe it didn't make it into final layout, or maybe I just missed it.

In any case, I've got a list of the errors, and I'll quickly go through and make an errata list to send to Charlie, and try and post it here.

Please don't take this as indicative of the quality of CHaosium's work in general. We all know they make great books, and we all love their games. I take responsibility for the errors in this manuscript, and it has given me the impetus to go back and do even more reviews on the other books for them on which I'm currently working (including a much more rigorous peer-review phase).

Mea culpa. If you ever meet me at a con, show me your copy of Magic Book, and I'll buy you a beer.

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Sarcasm apart, this is SO sad and I feel so stupid having ordered this unusable "adaptation" in the latest sale. They are really taking advanage of the stupid loyalty of a bunch of fans like me and finishing dilapidating what remains of the goodwill capital attached to their brand since a long gone age when they put forth quality products.

Yes, I definitely felt stupid in my loyalty after buying this book.

I am sorry but there is a difference between a small company with scarce means and a company that just does not give a damn about what their throwing out. Chaosium seems more the second than the first. When was the last time they did anything half decent in-house?

I doubt anyone at Chaosium actually plays BRP. How could they possibly produce something decent in house?

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While we're moaning, though, I will say that "In Search of the Trollslayer" (the only official Chaosium BRP straight fantasy scenario, right?) does suffer from dreadful production errors.

Plus an incorrect implementation of the magic system in the sample wizard character.

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Hello Andrea,

I can understand why you are so disappointed. But do you think that this kind of comment can really help to improve the quality of future products?

The list of "Stuff that had better been checked before printing" is on its way to the writers. Let us hope that everything can be fixed with a small errata sheet.

Hi Paolo,

You are right. This was not a constructive contribution. It was a rant and a very bitter one at that. Having calmed down I can say I went a bit overboard.

I just wanted to lash out verbally at Chaosium and vent my frustration and disappointment. As a fan I am deeply invested with Chaosium not only in terms of books bought but also emotionally. It sounds silly - and probably is - but I'm sure many people here are like me.

Chaosium did not oblige me at gunpoint to buy the magic booklet for the third time (RQ3 box, tape bound photocopied monograph pre-BGB, and this latest Magic Book). So, I should probably be angry mostly with myself. That said I hoped that after reprinting that same stuff several times without updates they would do a proper adaptation work.

Chaosium are still putting out good stuff. And the BGB is admittedly good. I do think, however, that even with their limited resources they could have done better with BRP. Most of what happens in this micro-renaissance of d100 is fan-driven and freelance based - the freelancers (and third party publishers) being mostly themselves fans. That's fine, but Chaosium could have put a bit more added value into that process. But that would be a long discussion...

Andrea

Edited by smiorgan

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I've got to apologize and eat a heaping helping of crow for the errors in this book. I swear I thought I'd caught all this stuff; maybe it didn't make it into final layout, or maybe I just missed it.

[...]

Mea culpa. If you ever meet me at a con, show me your copy of Magic Book, and I'll buy you a beer.

Zomben,

You are gentleman.

Bear in mind that I cannot possibly be angry with the man who wrote (at a very young age, I gather) the crazy demon summoning rules of Stormbringer 4th.

Man, we had hilarious and epic moments playing with your rules!

If we ever meet I'd gladly accept the beer, though.

Smiorgan

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I appreciate the effort it takes. My brother wrote the 5-Eyes portion of Borderlands way back when, and he poured over that manuscript for months. I am glad the work is underway to get this fixed. It is my hope that the corrections can be incorporated into the PDF version as I am more likely to use that at the game table then I am to use a hard copy. Don't worry about what happened, just focus on making the next project even better.

Cheers,

David

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I appreciate the effort it takes. My brother wrote the 5-Eyes portion of Borderlands way back when, and he poured over that manuscript for months.

I really liked that adventure. Tell him thanks.

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