Two different groups on the same heroquest

[Puckohue]

If two separate groups go on the same heroquest at the same time, would they meet each other?

[Malin]

I would say whatever is Maximum Game Fun!

However, for me personally, I would say that it is less chance to meet if they are on the same side of the heroquest. Many Yelmalio followers can ascend the Hill of Gold at the same time, there's no reason why they should run into each other. However, A Yelmalio group and an Orlanth group can easily meet if Yelmalio is doing the Hill of Gold, while the Orlanth one is looking for the lightning spear or something similar. That's a mythical connection that might serve to pull them together. Same with a troll group looking for fire related stuff.

On second thought, I would say that if the Yelmalio groups would meet, it would be in the final stage, on top of the hill.

 

Edited August 24, 2023 by Malin

[mfbrandi]

2 hours ago, Malin said:

I would say whatever is Maximum Game Fun …
Many Yelmalio followers can ascend the Hill of Gold at the same time, there's no reason why they should run into each other.

Or … and it is an inclusive or (not a contradiction of the above):

• many heroquesters ascend the Hill of Gold, call them the hoggers
• in as much as the myth has a temporal location, every hogger ascends the Hill at the same time (whenever they individually set out from the mundane world)
• each hogger “is” Yelmalio
• one Yelmalio ascends the Hill, no hogger meets another coming the other way
  (and in a myth where the god meets themself, the quester also meets themself, not another quester)

As for the “identity” of quester and god, you could play it so one of these is true:

• Quester 1 = God A, Quester 2 = God A, but Quester 1 != Quester 2. How this can be so is a Great Religious Mystery™. (Dull. Unsatisfactory.)
• Quester 1 = God A, Quester 2 = God A, so Quester 1 = Quester 2. It all skews Tim Hardin, and we are one, one, all in one. Questers are odd coves and after doing time in the universal mind, is it any wonder that they all go a bit Gbarkysalor? (These people are dangerous hippies. Avoid them.)
• Each quester has the “I am the god” experience and rarely if ever stops to think “I am also a mortal playing the rôle of the god,” but there is always the possibility that each quester comes fully to themself, becomes aware of all the other questers, and then they all become aware that they are jointly steering the deity — suddenly, they are not doing such a good job of it. (Less Tim H and more Wolfbane.)

Edited August 24, 2023 by mfbrandi
slight edit to 4th bullet point

[Squaredeal Sten]

It is my impression that when you quest into the Gods World, you are going into a world before Time or independent of Time.  So there is no simultaneity.

All of the various questers' efforts do have a cumulative effect as I understand it, either strengthening or weakening the myth. But: It is like our both  replaying the same recording of music: the various iterations neither clash nor harmonize with each other.  My turning  off the music half way through in my house will not interfere with your experience in your house. 

But parties on opposed sides of the myth may encounter one another.  This is the efficient way of providing mythical opposition.  It still does not require simultaneity in the Middle World: your quest today may encounter my quest of yesterday or of yesteryear.

Edited August 24, 2023 by Squaredeal Sten
The Opposed sides oaragraph

[Akhôrahil]

4 hours ago, Puckohue said:

If two separate groups go on the same heroquest at the same time, would they meet each other?

If they do it on opposing sides, I would say it's almost mandatory. But they might not recognize each other.

[French Desperate WindChild]

a very good question. here my thoughts, without clear answer, sorry 😛

I use spoiler tag to develop my opinion on each point I think.

when you are heroquesting, are you visiting the "only one" god plan/ hero plan or an echo ? for me it is an echo but that is my own conclusion, I don't have any reference, just I cannot understand how it could work in another way

Spoiler

following the other option: ok heroquestors are in the only one, but they can do something differently, it is called experimental heroquest. so every time heroquestors do something different, the myth should be changed, that is not the case.

in the opposite way (there are echoes, not the only one), the myth is not altered because one instance is not following the pattern, but if a lot of instances follow an altered pattern, always the same, it may be possible that, as the addition of echos say something new, the source (=the myth)  changes to  fit the majority echo

 

 

If it is an instance, is there, at one mundane moment, only one instance of hero plan or are there as many instances than there are heroquestors taking the same role ?

the white bull campaign shows that people (the pc) are able to enter hell (so it seems to me it is a heroquest) to meet Kalyr working on her heroquest . So we can conclude that people on the same mundane moment are able to meet themselves (if they recognize the mundane people behind the mask of gods) in an instance of hell. That doesnt demonstrate if it must be only one or it can be several but at least we know the possibility that two "teams" can meet.

Spoiler

however I don't remember how / why the pc were able to recognize Kallyr and not believed it was Orlanth, or another deity. And they were conscious of that:  they started their heroquest  with the goal to meet her.

So it means that gloranthan know they don't meet gods but echo of them (echo as heroquestor or echo as automaton, just how the god acted and how it should answer in the best way when facing something new =  heroquestor weird activity).

so let's imagine the different hypothesis:

 

H1) they MUST be in the same echo. So we have two people who want to start to be the same god (let's say Orlanth just because I m more confortable from a knowledge perspective).

several options:

- One takes the role of Orlanth, the other one fails to enter in the god plan (heroquest can fail from the very begining, maybe because the place is "occupied", of course no participant can know that, they just witness the failure)

- One takes the role of Orlanth, the other a related role (a thunder brother, ...). the second one doesn't do what was expected but at least is in the myth

- Both take the role of Orlanth, their souls are both in the same "shell" and at each station, there is a kind of duel to determine who "leads" and decides what to do.

- Both take the role of Orlanth, their souls merge, and a new temporary entity leads. Something like the fusion between Vegeta and Goku in dragon ball (you don't see one or the other, you see something new)

 

they CAN be in the same echo.

following the previous options:

- One takes the role of Orlanth, the other one maybe fails, maybe.... takes the role of Orlanth in another echo, and there are two heroquests at the same mundane time

- One takes the role of Orlanth, the other a a thunder brother. But, at any "time", we know a heroquester can "explore" the myth. So maybe during the station two, the thunder brother does something "weird", and following a new path, becomes Orlanth, creating another echo of the myth (one with the first Orlanth, one with the old thunder brother who is a second Orlanth). And maybe in two or three stations, the echos will merge and again,one will be Orlanth, and the other a thunder brother.

- Both take the role of Orlanth, but there is no merge, and there are two echos of Orlanth in two different heroquests.

 

they CANNOT be in the same echo.

easy, they are in two different heroquests, and that's fine

 

now my conclusion :

from a game perspective, the answer of your question  is not very important (but I like your question !) :

the point is: do the pc start the heroquest, and if yes, are they in the right role (what they wanted). For any reasons, they can fail, or they can start but not in the expected role, or they may change the role during the quest (for any reason).

And maybe they will recognize who is behind Orlanth shell, or maybe not.

What I would manage is (but would like to see the rules to be more accurate) to determine a success or not (Are you in Orlanth shell ?) ? If not, if any player asks why (after hearing the soft sound of the dices - or not) , I would answer: "your characters cannot answer this question.  they may ask themselves, ask some wise people but there are so many reasons. If it is important for your character, roll a devotion test, if you fail, your characters will consider the gods differently, and lose 1d6. if you succeed, your characters will keep their faith, if critical, they will work hard to succeed next time, add +1d6. That s a personal choice, a pc can succeed, another can fail, and a last one doesn't care at all

 

but from a background perspective, we need an answer !!!  😛

 

[soltakss]

8 hours ago, Puckohue said:

If two separate groups go on the same heroquest at the same time, would they meet each other?

It probably depends.

If both groups play the same roles then it is difficult to see how they can meet.

However, if they play different roles then they could be each other's random encounters or even friends/foes.

[mfbrandi]

If the essence of heroquesting is I touched eternity, and I hit it with a stick, perhaps IFWW is instructive:

• [W]hen everything was dead or dying, the last individual being confronted … Chaos and fought it … That individual then taught others, who remembered doing this themselves … How a single entity, alone, was simultaneously every other living being as well, each of which was alone, is the mystery which is resolved by participating in their initiation. — Prosopaedia (CHA4042), p. 61
   
• I Fought … Was the Last Person one person? Who can tell? Many have seen the vision and many have participated in it. Each participant, now or in myth, knows this as a crisis which they must face alone, regardless of opposition. With no other hope than themselves, each must face the deepest monsters of the Pit and overcome his own foes. Each one fights alone.
  
  We Won … There is a meeting between what Was and what Might Be in the now of Time. The world of Was is called Godtime. The what Might Be is the future. The Godtime houses the immortal deities who sit and wait in a timeless stasis. The future belongs to mortals, in the realm where change and death and hope all break the stasis of myth. — Uz Lore, Trollpak (4016-X), p. 8

[Look, Ma, no smartarse commentary.]

[Malin]

4 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

  Hide contents

however I don't remember how / why the pc were able to recognize Kallyr and not believed it was Orlanth, or another deity. And they were conscious of that:  they started their heroquest  with the goal to meet her.

So it means that gloranthan know they don't meet gods but echo of them (echo as heroquestor or echo as automaton, just how the god acted and how it should answer in the best way when facing something new =  heroquestor weird activity).

 

If I remember correctly they were doing one of the shorter, ritual lightbringers quests where they don't leave the mundane world but travels between ritually prepared areas. I suspect that has something to do with it, it's still the real world, you are not wholly immersed in myth when you walk the streets of Boldhome. That's why it's also safer.

Edited August 24, 2023 by Malin

[Joerg]

There might be a chance for the two questing parties get mixed up when they depart from a station. 

[JRE]

If they are doing the same quest from opposing sides, then MGF requires they become the opponents. Both Arkati and Lunars are experts in this oppositional questing to sabotage other people questing. 

IMG most opposition are Godtime echoes, but if you can arrange to be cast in an opposition role in a close point in time and space, you can become the opposition, and depending on your power levels, wreck the other people quest. See Jar-Eel and Kallyr’s LBQ. 
 

If you are cast in similar roles, you cannot act directly, but you could reinforce each other, so if others succeed they may soften the impact of any failure, or they may make some stages easier. That is what happens in the Sacred Time, you have so many groups carrying out the same myths that it is easy to succeed, and even if you fail, you might continue. You may have been unable to steal the cloud sheep, but your kinswoman did and she brings you some so you can continue with the shearing. Conversely, that may weaken your success a bit as you may need to share it with the other questers…

If both fail in the same station, and it feels right, you may have both groups join and become a single group, and try again, if the test would allow a new attempt, even if they lost some critical roles, by replacing them. 

[mfbrandi]

5 hours ago, JRE said:

in the Sacred Time, you have so many groups carrying out the same myths that it is easy to succeed

Or you roll the dice enough times and the middling results seem emphasized — even without one die affecting another — and the middling results are those we know from Every Child’s Book of Myth, Condensed God Learner Edition?

[Harry the Dirty Dog]

On 8/25/2023 at 7:12 AM, Joerg said:

There might be a chance for the two questing parties get mixed up when they depart from a station. 

But being heroformed, they don't notice until they finish the quest.

"Who the hell are you and where did Keith go?!?"

[ZedAlpha]

Could also be a good way to introduce a (possibly friendly?) rivalry within the quest as the two groups meet up, maybe there's a bit of banter as they compete to complete a station of the quest first, and then both groups find each other on the others' storypath, which is definitely different than they were expecting due to slight but understandable cultural differences in each group's myths.

That approach could definitely work with quests belonging to entities worshiped or just remembered by very disparate cultures.