Glorantha In FATE Core?

[alakoring]

Again I never ran it, but the idea was that he could simply use his Fire rune to attack (assuming he’s an initiate). No need for special stunts. (The rune descriptions in HeroQuest can suggest uses.) If it’s a one-shot you could probably just keep the skill pyramid and allow up to two runes. I didn’t want them to crowd out other skills which is why I added another at each level.

[ZedAlpha]

Yeah absolutely. I think that definitely tracks.

Edited September 4, 2023 by ZedAlpha

[Mameluco]

On 9/1/2023 at 1:09 PM, EpicureanDM said:

I've got a similar project underway, but I chose Cortex rather than Fate as the system. 

Cortex provides the same general feel at the table as Fate, but has a lot more systemic granularity thanks to its intentions as a toolkit system. The whole point of Cortex is to build the game using its components, which is the project you've undertaken. For someone who is familiar with RuneQuest and wants to capture, as you say, Glorantha's famed granularity, Cortex's depth and modularity work to your advantage. For example, I've settled on using Attributes and Runes as the primary components of dice pools. I thought about using Cortex's Skills element since that would mirror RQ's Attributes + Skills design, but figured that Runes were a better thematic fit for Glorantha. The biggest advantage of using Cortex has been using different components to define different sorts of magic. So Rune Magic, Spirit Magic, and Sorcery will all use slightly different rules just like they do in RQ. 

I'm trying to match the rules granularity of RQ with the better sensibility that for Glorantha that Heroquest provides. I usually start by asking myself whether I can translate a piece of RQ design into Cortex's terms, but filtered through the ways that Heroquest's designers did this first. The most important thing has been deferring to Heroquest ideas and principles when I've struggled in the RQ -> Cortex conversion. That's why I chose Attributes + Runes rather than Attributes + Skills, for example. The design spirit animating Heroquest's approach to Glorantha is a better natural fit for Cortex. My approach is a little unique in that I'm trying to use as much of Cortex's rules as I can, so I'm getting a bit exotic. You could easily make your life much simpler by using fewer Cortex components in your design, as the game's own designers encourage you to do when building in Cortex.

I thought of a Cortex Prime converstion of RQ too! At the end decided to wait till I finish my current Fate Glorantha campaign. (Probably around 2075.)

Can you share your drafts?

[EpicureanDM]

On 9/4/2023 at 3:19 AM, Mameluco said:

I thought of a Cortex Prime converstion of RQ too! At the end decided to wait till I finish my current Fate Glorantha campaign. (Probably around 2075.)

Can you share your drafts?

It's not quite in a shareable spot yet, but I'd be happy to answer some questions about the choices I've made so far. 😉

 

[ZedAlpha]

On a different note, what are the thoughts on representing weapons and armor with Extras, or just narratively folding them into the Fight skill and/or stunts?

Like, say, a stunt called Panoply or something, that gives a Boost (at least) towards defending with Fight so long as the character's wearing heavy armor?

[ZedAlpha]

On 9/5/2023 at 7:53 AM, EpicureanDM said:

It's not quite in a shareable spot yet, but I'd be happy to answer some questions about the choices I've made so far. 😉

I forgot the exact Cortex terms for it, but how hard was it to come up with applicable character creation...adjectives? Templates? Package deals? The Cortex system character building thingy. Those.

[AndreasDavour]

When it comes to weapons and armour I'd suggest you keep them narrative only, unless they have a significant story impact. Then you can use the fractal to stat them out. I've found people often try to model things in Fate, which is not how Fate is intended to work. Fate models narratives, not stuff.

That's also a reason I would suggest you stay away from the runes. Making rules front and center feels like dressing RQ up in a new coat of paint, and not playing Fate. YMMV.

[ZedAlpha]

Yeah, I think keeping it to stunts would definitely work best especially for novice players.

[John Biles]

11 hours ago, ZedAlpha said:

I forgot the exact Cortex terms for it, but how hard was it to come up with applicable character creation...adjectives? Templates? Package deals? The Cortex system character building thingy. Those.

Templates, I think.

It's easy to do in Firefly, anyway.

 

[Mameluco]

13 hours ago, ZedAlpha said:

On a different note, what are the thoughts on representing weapons and armor with Extras, or just narratively folding them into the Fight skill and/or stunts?

Like, say, a stunt called Panoply or something, that gives a Boost (at least) towards defending with Fight so long as the character's wearing heavy armor?

In my fate game, weapons and other tools are part of the fiction. We allow retroactive uses of Create an Advantage (because my players can spend hours on decision paralysis during planning) and, now, my players just say "of course I brought my best weapons and armour, don't be silly!", and roll Resources (or Contacts if they borrowed the equipment, or whatever...) to create the advantage "Properly equipped".

OTOH, one of my players' characters has THEIR sword. That's modelled as a stunt.

13 hours ago, ZedAlpha said:

I forgot the exact Cortex terms for it, but how hard was it to come up with applicable character creation...adjectives? Templates? Package deals? The Cortex system character building thingy. Those.

in Cortex Prime are called Prime Sets. They are Distintions + 2 others.

For Gloranthat, I thought of using Distintions + Runes (skills with other name) + Passions (Virtues with another name). With Specializations and Assets as secundary sets.

[EpicureanDM]

19 hours ago, ZedAlpha said:

I forgot the exact Cortex terms for it, but how hard was it to come up with applicable character creation...adjectives? Templates? Package deals? The Cortex system character building thingy. Those.

It was harder settling on them that it will be to list them. 😉

Remember that I'm trying to get close to an RQ-type experience. So I settled on Attributes, Runes (instead of Skills), and Distinctions (required by the Cortex rules). The Attributes are Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, Power, and Charisma. Runes use the die distribution of Skills, the 6-die pyramid provided in the book. If a Rune's at d10 or d12, it can be used to Hinder a PC. (That's meant to model how powerful Runes in RQG can cause problems for a character.) As for Distinctions, characters must have one to represent their cult, one to represent their homeland and profession combined, e.g. Sartarite Thane, and one for a strong belief or personality trait. 

I also avoid using Cortex's rules to model mundane weapons or armor. If someone picks up an important, legendary weapon or set of armor, then that can be modeled as something special. Otherwise, they're narrative details that can be made temporarily significant in the scene via a Stunt or PP or some other expenditure. (Where I do use the Asset/Signature Asset rules is with animism and bound spirits.) I'm also using a Life Point system rather than the more standard, Fate-like conflict resolution, but I'm using the Life Point system from Terraverse, a mini-setting that Kickstarter backers received. As I've said, I'm going for a more RQ feel, so Life Points makes sense for me. But that's entirely optional and I'd still not bother accounting for mundane weapons and armor if I were using the base conflict rules. If this were a more D&D-inspired game, that might make sense. A Gloranthan game's supposed to be a little more heroic.

Edited September 7, 2023 by EpicureanDM

[EpicureanDM]

17 hours ago, Mameluco said:

For Gloranthat, I thought of using Distintions + Runes (skills with other name) + Passions (Virtues with another name). With Specializations and Assets as secundary sets.

Passions are one of the few Prime Sets I haven't shoehorned into my hack. They feel redundant with Runes. RQG's current implementation of Runes takes its inspiration from Pendragon's Passions, so why include Passions on top of Passions?

[ZedAlpha]

Okay, after talking with the other potential players and looking at all the wonderful advice here, I'm definitely (and I'm sorry if I'm rehashing something I've already said before in this thread) doing this for character creation:

• Each character has 6 aspects to start, a High Concept, a Trouble and a Cult. High Concept must include reference to your highest Rune skill.
• The Runes will be represented by Skills, each PC must have at least one at +3 in character creation.
• The PCs will get one extra Refresh, and one Stunt must relate to their highest Rune.
• The clan will be represented by a Fractal (thanks, @alakoring!), with its own Aspects and Skills determined during a sort of...clan history questionnaire a la Six Ages/King of Dragon Pass (which I've discussed in another thread). The Clan Skills will just be Health, Wealth, War, and Magic to keep it simple. Companion animals and summoned elementals could be another Fractal gained through Stunts or magical Skills.
• As @Mameluco, @Akhôrahil, and @AndreasDavour suggested, I should probably keep things simple when it comes to equipment and magic and just leave them as applicable Stunts/Aspects and/or skill rolls, so I think I will. I'll plunder the RuneQuest books (particularly the Cult Guides) for ideas on magical Stunts.

I think if/when this game gets off the ground I'll blog about it.

[g33k]

3 hours ago, EpicureanDM said:

Passions are one of the few Prime Sets I haven't shoehorned into my hack. They feel redundant with Runes. RQG's current implementation of Runes takes its inspiration from Pendragon's Passions, so why include Passions on top of Passions?

RQG Passions usually link the PC's to other *people*...  Love (This Person), Hate (That Person), Fear (Entire Race of People), etc.

Narratively, I think the link to characters is often going to work better (or at least differently, for you as a GM (i.e. you aren't likely to need to rescue the Air Rune from some Tusk Riders)) than links to abstract & impersonal Runes.

As always:  YGWV.

[EpicureanDM]

7 hours ago, g33k said:

RQG Passions usually link the PC's to other *people*...  Love (This Person), Hate (That Person), Fear (Entire Race of People), etc.

Narratively, I think the link to characters is often going to work better (or at least differently, for you as a GM (i.e. you aren't likely to need to rescue the Air Rune from some Tusk Riders)) than links to abstract & impersonal Runes.

As always:  YGWV.

Oh, I realize that I used some imprecise terminology. I haven't played Pendragon in a long time and was referring to Pendragon's Traits, e.g. Chaste/Lustful, when explaining why I think Runes and "Passions" would be redundant in my Cortex game. Maybe the Chaste/Lustful pairings were called passions in an earlier edition? Anyway, I consider Runes and Pendragon-style Traits (what Cortex would probably call Values) to be redundant. 

[g33k]

1 hour ago, EpicureanDM said:

Oh, I realize that I used some imprecise terminology. I haven't played Pendragon in a long time and was referring to Pendragon's Traits, e.g. Chaste/Lustful, when explaining why I think Runes and "Passions" would be redundant in my Cortex game. Maybe the Chaste/Lustful pairings were called passions in an earlier edition? Anyway, I consider Runes and Pendragon-style Traits (what Cortex would probably call Values) to be redundant. 

I was comparing RGQ "Passions" vs RQG "Runes," without reference to Pendragon.

Game-mechanically, they are IMHO similar -- both can be used to "Augment" in RQG (Runes also represent magical aptitudes (Rune Magic), minor bumps to a couple of characteristics, and some personality-trait-ish stuff; but those elements are likely irrelevant when translating to other systems like Fate/Cortex).

I agree that Runes' & Passions' mechanical impact largely duplicate one another.  It's their narrative impact that I think distinguish them

Barring other mechanics (from the new-to-Glorantha system) that tie the character to their culture, their clan, their family, and their family-history, inspire and motivate characters those ways, it's those sorts of elements I'd find un-duplicated by Runes & worth preserving in the translation-effort.

 

I think RQG's Runes and Pendragon's Traits are indeed largely "identical" in function within their respective gamesystems, and wouldn't look to separately-import each of them into a new Gloranthan RPG.  I'm pretty sure Traits explicitly inspired the Chaosium crew in creating the new Rune mechanics.

[EpicureanDM]

1 hour ago, g33k said:

Barring other mechanics (from the new-to-Glorantha system) that tie the character to their culture, their clan, their family, and their family-history, inspire and motivate characters those ways, it's those sorts of elements I'd find un-duplicated by Runes & worth preserving in the translation-effort.

 

I think RQG's Runes and Pendragon's Traits are indeed largely "identical" in function within their respective gamesystems, and wouldn't look to separately-import each of them into a new Gloranthan RPG.  I'm pretty sure Traits explicitly inspired the Chaosium crew in creating the new Rune mechanics.

Agreed. My interest lies in running in the RQ2/3 mode rather than the Red Cow mode, so I'm less interested in putting mechanical weight behind the cultural stuff.

[AndreasDavour]

On 9/8/2023 at 4:28 AM, ZedAlpha said:

I think if/when this game gets off the ground I'll blog about it.

Cool! I'd love to hear about it.

[LordNigel]

Any news on this?
I usually GM GURPS, CoC, but also like Savage Worlds and FATE. For a bunch of reasons I've been preparing to migrate into FATE for a while (mostly for its practicality, the fact that I wanted to test it out more, and also because I'm really into Mythic GME as a GMing tool and think FATE will blend in magically with that). I've been thinking a lot about how to port my RPG plans into FATE, and one of them is finally getting some Glorantha to the table. I've had all RQG and HQG books (in a mix of print and digital forms) for some years now but never manage to make it happen. RQG attracts me a lot because of the grittiness and simulation side, which appeals to my GURPS side, but I really don't have time to deal with the fiddliness right now. HQG attracts me a lot because it scratches my narrative itch, but it's a specific game to learn and since I'm already going to use FATE for other games/campaigns I might as well stick to FATE for that (and steal a lot of ideas from HQG). 

I really liked this discussion here and think that mostly I'd follow what @ZedAlpha ended up deciding on, but I also made a copy of @Mameluco's document for extra inspiration. Lots of cool ideas in there (You're not a Portuguese speaker by any chance? If you are let's talk more about this).

Anyway, this is a very recent and fresh discussion (which is great honestly), but I'd like to know if @ZedAlpha has put any of this into practice already. I'd really appreciate following your experience and learn from it. I probably won't GM a Glorantha game until sometime next year, so I'd like to plan carefully.

 

[Mameluco]

I'm glad there are more peole trying to port Glorantha into Fate. I want to see what you create and your design goals and preferencies, @LordNigel.

Sadly, my own game is on hold due to schedule issues. And now, I want to port Gloranthat to Cortex Prime. In fact, I want to port everything to Cortex. 😄

Ps. I found funny you realised my mother language was in the Latin family. I knew it was clear I wasn't an English speaker, but I didn't think it was that clear. I'm Spanish, BTW.

Edited October 11, 2023 by Mameluco

[LordNigel]

5 hours ago, Mameluco said:

Ps. I found funny you realised my mother language was in the Latin family. I knew it was clear I wasn't an English speaker, but I didn't think it was that clear. I'm Spanish, BTW.

No, no, no! By no means! hahah
It's because you mentioned that English was not your mother language and through your user name the highest possibility was either Spanish or Portuguese! I'm Brazilian, so it wouldn't hurt to check, haha! I also speak Spanish btw.
But nevertheless, your English is great, there was nothing in there specifically that made me think otherwise, don't worry! (and I can say that being a professional English teacher and translator! 😉 )
 

[LordNigel]

5 hours ago, Mameluco said:

I'm glad there are more peole trying to port Glorantha into Fate. I want to see what you create and your design goals and preferencies, @LordNigel.

Sadly, my own game is on hold due to schedule issues. And now, I want to port Gloranthat to Cortex Prime. In fact, I want to port everything to Cortex. 😄

Going back to the game discussion, I hope the OP has had success running his FATE game. I'm really eager to hear more experiences. 

Since I really like Generic systems, I checked Cortex Prime out some time ago and really liked the idea. However, I mostly play online through Foundry and so far the other systems I use have better support there. There is a recent package for Cortex on Foundry, but it's unofficial and not as complete as others that I've used. When it comes to systems that we need to customize to our needs, the more tools and resources available the better. Nevertheless I do consider trying it in the future. Feel free to share your experiences using it at the table.

[g33k]

BRP is a pretty good generic system, too.
I understand why folks might want to move to Fate or Cortex or what-have-you... 

I'm actually moving all my games onto BRP!  😉

Just at the moment, I'm being very intrigued by Helmgast's game The Troubleshooters.  It appears to be a BRP/d100 base-system with a very "Fate-like" overlay of Apsects-and-Fate-points (the language is different, but the mechanics look very similar).

Edited October 11, 2023 by g33k

[Zac]

2 hours ago, g33k said:

BRP is a pretty good generic system, too.

It is more similar to Runequest though. Crunchy as opposed to the story focused systems like Fate and HeroQuestWorlds. 

[g33k]

51 minutes ago, Zac said:

It is more similar to Runequest though. Crunchy as opposed to the story focused systems like Fate and HeroQuestWorlds. 

Yes; BRP is the direct descendant of RQ.  And I did say I could see "why folks might want to move to Fate or Cortex or what-have-you..."  😉

But then again, "Fate" is a narrative-system overlay on the pretty crunchy "Fudge" game-engine; which is what makes me so intrigued by The Troubleshooters, which seems to be doing the same sort of thing with BRP (that Fate did with Fudge).