Cult distribution charts

[Jape_Vicho]

The main thing I was expecting from the Mythology book was the cult distribution charts. I thought that those would be more extensive (instead of intensive), grouping the Lunar Heartlands, or Maniria, all in one table, instead of making one for each satrapy/tribe/whatever, but covering further homelands. The way it's presented, though, gives a richer detail, which is pretty good too. 

Some questions have popped in my head while studying them, and I wonder if they could find an answer here. 

About the Invisible God(s?):

We are presented 3 homelands of strong Malkioni presence or influence: God Forgot, Wenelia and the West Reaches; and some others with some minor influence: inland Maniria, Heortland, and the Pelandan Satrapies. Within those homelands, we can see sort of three "schools" or trends of malkionism, seeing how they're represented by different "cults". First is the classic "Invisible God", which seems to group the Brithini-like God-Forgetters and the heterodox Manirian Malkioni. The second grup are the Aeolians, which, as expected, covers the Esvulari of south-western Kethaela. The third group, the Carmanians, is the most complex one, as their Invisible God tradition seems to be divided between Idovanus (closest to the classic Invisible God, and yet a different cult to that one, main cult of the 4, cult of the Carmanian Wizards), Malakinus (mysterious figure, pretty close in popularity to Idovanus), Invisible Orlanth (just another orlanthi psyop), and Ganesatarus (sort of shadow of the Inv. God, probably main cult of the Spolites, or even only worshipped by them). Enough with the exposition, on with the questions:

1) What does the "Invisible God" label cover exactly? Does it cover all the orthodox (ie. not henotheist) malkioni sects: Rokari, Hrestoli, New Idealistas, Sedalpists...? What about the Brithini and Vadeli?

2) Does the "Invisible God" label cover ALL orthodox malkionists? Because in Wenelia and God Forgot, where I expected a huge Malkioni majority, we se the Invisible God initiates are only around 1/4 of the population. Do the many initiates of Orlanth and Ernalda in God Forgot and the ones of the Grain Godesses in Wenelia cover also "cultural malkioni" who are initiates of said deities too? What about the great Daka Fal numbers in Wenelia, do those represent ancestor cults of the local talars? 

3) How is Idovanus different from the mainstream Inv. God?

4) Who the hell is Malakinus, and who worships them? He doesn't even show up in the Prosoapedia. EDIT: Maybe the better question is not WHO is Malakinus but (or maybe also), how is he different from Ganesatarus?

These questions seek both to understand the homelands better (as it's not the same that only around 30% of the population of God Forgot are malkioni than that that 30% are those who are only initiated to him, while the vast majority is still malkioni), and also to be able to create tables for other homelands. 

I have more questions about the tables, mostly about the relationship between Ernalda and the Grain Godesses, but I am not going to write them rn as to not overcrowd the post. I'll may post them later depending how these ones are received. 

 

Edited October 14, 2023 by Jape_Vicho

[Akhôrahil]

25 minutes ago, Jape_Vicho said:

4) Who the hell is Malakinus, and who worships them? He doesn't even show up in the Prosoapedia. 

Another name for Ganesatarus. As a god of evil, probably more feared than worshipped in most cases.

Edited October 14, 2023 by Akhôrahil

[Jape_Vicho]

2 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

Another name for Ganasaterus. As a god of evil, probably more feared than worshipped in most cases.

That's what the Wiki says too, apparently supported by Revealed Mythologies, a book I haven't read, but also not exactly canonical for RQG (I think). But the thing is, those charts are pure godlearnerism, exemplified by the fact that only Lodril appears in them, and not Ladaral, Vesthraken, Turos, etc. Given that the chart seems to group different regional variants and subcults whenever possible, why would the same god have 2 entries in the same homeland? I'm not dismissing the possibility, but to me it's unlikely because then the tables would concur in a weird inconsistency.

[Akhôrahil]

The relevant section:

[Nick Brooke]

Hi, I have no special insight here but I wrote a lot of the foundational stuff for modern Carmania. This is my own interpretation, not canonical.

”Idovanus” = rightly-guided Carmanian religion, overseen by the Magi. Since Aronius Jaranthir’s time, this has included the gods and goddesses of the Lunar Way.

“Malakinus” = impersonal godless sorcery, the sort of thing Viziers get up to (and NB that some Viziers are of course Wicked). Practitioners are generally assumed to be “bad” by non-sorcerous types, with some Manichaean echoes (the mundane, material world is essentially fallen, kinda thing), but it’s really about measure, observable reality, repeatable experiments, etc.

”Ganesetarus” = worship of evil gods, Spolite necromancy and the like. More overt muah-ha-ha’ing than “proper” Malakinus practices: this began as a self-conscious exercise in using the Dark Side vs. Dara Happan gods of Light, but was defeated ages ago when Carmanos and his heirs liberated Pelanda from the Spolite Gloom. Mostly underground, both figuratively and literally, but perhaps the Lunar Way’s acceptance of cyclical descent and return has made it more overt?

 

 

[metcalph]

4 hours ago, Jape_Vicho said:

1) What does the "Invisible God" label cover exactly? Does it cover all the orthodox (ie. not henotheist) malkioni sects: Rokari, Hrestoli, New Idealistas, Sedalpists...? What about the Brithini and Vadeli?

My guess is that it covers one who practices rightness and caste magic (based on wot Jeff has said elsewhere).  The known population figures are too large for them to be wizards alone.  

 

4 hours ago, Jape_Vicho said:

2) Does the "Invisible God" label cover ALL orthodox malkionists? Because in Wenelia and God Forgot, where I expected a huge Malkioni majority, we se the Invisible God initiates are only around 1/4 of the population. Do the many initiates of Orlanth and Ernalda in God Forgot and the ones of the Grain Godesses in Wenelia cover also "cultural malkioni" who are initiates of said deities too? What about the great Daka Fal numbers in Wenelia, do those represent ancestor cults of the local talars? 

The Trader Princes are not described as a majority in the Guide and Cults of Runequest: the Lightbringers p37 indicates the Trader Princes functioned in the place of Orlanth Rex in other countries.

God Forgot is perhaps explainable by counting the people under the authority of the Talar of God Forgot as of 1625 (ie Bandori and Marcher County 30K), the long term inhabitants of Casino Town (another 5k) and so on.  The worshippers of Choralinthur are probably native Rightarmers/Diroti/Pelaskites rather than God Forgotten/Brithini.  As such they would occupy a sizable chunk of the rural population.  

 

4 hours ago, Jape_Vicho said:

3) How is Idovanus different from the mainstream Inv. God?

The Carmanians are heretics (or rather innovative to use a less loaded term) in that they believe the Material World does not proceed from their Invisible God but was rather a separate Creation.  The Aeolians are likewise divergent due to their conception of the Invisible God judging by what the Prosopedia says.  The worship of other gods alongside the Invisible God is not in itself a divergence from orthodox Malkioni practice.  Greg used to muse about some Carmanians being licensed to worship Ganesatarus but they could just be ethnic Spolites willing to play along the Magi in return for not having their heads kicked in on a regular basis.

4 hours ago, Jape_Vicho said:

4) Who the hell is Malakinus, and who worships them? He doesn't even show up in the Prosoapedia. EDIT: Maybe the better question is not WHO is Malakinus but (or maybe also), how is he different from Ganesatarus?

I don't think he's the God of Bad Sorcery as that's the long lost Fronalako (ie "Fronelan Malkion") who does show up in the Prosopedia p43 as an emanation of Ganesatarus.  My guess is that while Idovanus is the God of Light and Ganesatarus is the God of Darkness, Malakinus is a lunarized version of the Invisible God ("The Seven Phases of the Red Moon show how Fuel can become Fire and Matter can become Energy... etc. etc.")

Another way of looking at it might be that Idovanus is wholly Thought and equivalent to the Full Moon while Ganesatarus is wholly Gross Matter and equivalent to the Black Moon.  The worshippers of Malakinus would then be divided into five groups - two halves, two crescents and one dying - who are either spiritually purifying themselves or embarking on an increasingly degenerate exploration of various vices to become worthy of Idovanus or Ganesatarus.  Some just be be middling along neither rising nor falling.  

One thing I should stress is that Malkionism is centered on the conduct of the Wizards (or Vizers if Carmanian).  Everybody else is largely an afterthought.  The local community will do whatever their Vizier says is legitimate.  It is not a faith that places much stress on personal salvation.  So if a village worships Ganesatarus, they're not necessarily bad people but that their vizier is dutifully following the Dark Path that was taught to him.

 

 

[Mark Mohrfield]

I am disappointed that the charts are not broken down by gender, which surely must play a major factor in which cult one belongs to.

[Orlanthatemyhamster]

On 10/16/2023 at 6:38 PM, Mark Mohrfield said:

I am disappointed that the charts are not broken down by gender, which surely must play a major factor in which cult one belongs to.

To be honest, I'm not surprised.

 

[Soccercalle]

I would love to have the Cult Distribution chart broken down by tribe in the upcoming Sartar book. And maybe even by clan for the Colymar (as the default PC tribe).