A Fire in the Darkness questions (SPOILERS)

[Nifty Newtling]

Hello!

I'm gearing up to run A Fire in the Darkness from the Starter Set soon. I love the adventure, it really brings the texture and conflicts of Sartar to life.

I have a few questions and things I'm trying to sort out before play. Heavily spoiler-ific so I'll put them behind tags.

Spoiler

First, a specific rules-ish question, regarding the effects of the phases of the moon. A sidebar in the adventure says that during Dying Moon and Black Moon, the wyter "cannot manifest physically". What exactly does this mean? Does it mean it can't use its madness or MP absorption abilities? RPG says to initiate spirit combat vs. someone in the Middle World the spirit must take a round to "make itself visible" - is that the same as manifesting physically? 

(I know my Maximum Game Fun sense tells me that the wyter should not be completely helpless during these phases. But having have some kind of disadvantage makes sense, and I'm wondering what the intent is here)

My other concerns have to do with the background series of events that happen before the adventure starts, and trying to understand what the cultists were trying to do exactly and what their agenda is during the adventure. The high-level story is that the cultists have accidentally set the wyter free, and in its madness, it has been stalking Jonstown at night and attacking residents. The cultists want to stop it, and discovered that it fears fire, so have been using fire to try to drive it back into the ruined temple. There is also a suggestion that they were seeking to destroy it with fire, but this seems like it won't work (it can't be destroyed while the banner is intact). They've accidentally burned three houses with these efforts with flames engulfing the fourth as we start the adventure.

Okay, this makes sense at a high level. But...

1. The first house that was burned belonged to one of the Seven Mothers cultists, Andralor the Potter. Why would the wyter have been attacking there? Quite a coincidence that it chose one of the handful of cultists in town! (Honestly it looks to me like this scene is just meant to drop the clue of his and his sister's identity, plus the fact that he created the lamps found at other scenes, and introduce the bad blood around the burning of the Seven Mothers temple. But it doesn't make sense.)
2. Why is the background action starting with houses being burned, anyway? How would the cultists manage to know that the wyter was rampaging and needed to be stopped before it actually managed to, you know, attack someone and drive them mad or something? Isn't that a more likely starting point? (I can think of other starting points. Just not the arson, because that has to be reactive.)
3. It's stated that Ferene (the priestess) accidentally discovered its fear of fire while encountering it with a torch in Under the Hill. So there's no arson before that discovery. But again, unless the wyter had already caused some sort of trouble, why would she be in Under the Hill looking for it?
4. Putting that aside, once things get rolling, the cultists want to cover things up so they use fire to try to contain the wyter, and accidental arson happens to house 1. They try to cover up another wyter attack, maybe now adding the intent to destroy with fire, and accidental arson happens to house 2. They try to coverup another wyter attack, maybe still trying to destroy it, and accidental arson happens to house 3. But maybe the fourth time they finally have enough oil to keep things quiet? I get that they are desperate and don't have a lot of options, but this is like the worst coverup attempt of all time. After 2 or at least 3 fires they wouldn't try something else?
5. Why would they try to destroy it with fire anyway? They know it's the wyter, they know it's in the banner and it can't be destroyed or controlled unless they get the banner. So even less reason to keep trying to burn it. And what's their plan to get to the banner? Okay, the guards at the temple are keeping them away. So what's their plan to deal with that? What are they waiting for?

Maybe it seems like I'm being too nitpicky here. It's quite possible that my players will not actually think of or learn enough to ask these questions. But I feel like this could be tightened up with a few changes and additions - and I am cooking up some ideas, but anyone else out there have any thoughts or suggestions?

Let me take a step back for a moment. I think that there's a sort of implicit head fake in the scenario, where the authors want the players to conclude that the cultists are simple cartoon villains trying to burn the town for the sake of vengeance, and then figure out the true story and change their perspective to see the shades of grey. Trying to create an epiphany. It's not explicit - maybe I'm reading too much into it? But while I love the ambiguity in this story and how the heroes may face some difficult moral choices, I don't think you need to force an epiphany with this kind of head fake. My instincts tell me the players are likely to assume "bad Lunars" on their own (the high Hate (Lunar Empire) scores on their sheets will help). And if you try to sell it too hard, they might just kill 'em all and jump right past those interesting choices. I mean, if that happens, it happens! And it could still be a great story that's given moral weight when they find the full truth after the fact. But I don't feel like I need to put my thumb on that scale... so it might be a double win to have a little less arson...

 

 

[Scornado]

I am currently running this scenario but set a year after the liberation of Jonstown.  It's a great scenario but you have to do some work.  See here for my write-up - it may give some ideas https://www.scorn.me.uk/RQ website/Stories/1626-3 Earth Season C2.html

[Nick Brooke]

Regarding your last concerns, I recently shared this “generic RuneQuest scenario” outline on Facebook, and think you should recognise this is a universal issue.

1. It’s [Element] Season, so our heroes have gone to [holy place] to take part in [ritual], like we do every year…
2. But something’s gone wrong, and this year it’s all started going sideways.
3. Unreflective jerks assume traditional enemies have screwed with our myths, but (whisper it) maybe our leaders or ancestors screwed up as well?
4. So now we’re all trying to complete a botched ritual and deal with political complications, while learning secrets about our traditional enemies and respected leaders/ancestors, while dealing with the fallout from the first botched attempt, which is probably huge and dangerous…
5. And then the players come up with their own solution (usually: “let’s marry or worship the huge dangerous monster, cover up our leaders’ and ancestors’ crimes, and lead a pogrom against our completely innocent traditional enemies.”)

Voila! That’s RuneQuest.

The thing is, some RuneQuest players will always prefer to blame the people they think are baddies (even if it means they have to frame them while teaming up with the real baddies), rather than accept what’s actually happening. It can be frustrating! But once you accept that it’s what always happens, you can get more relaxed about it, and maybe even start poking fun at those knuckle-draggers who can’t move past their entry-level preconceptions. That’s what Greg always did.

[Scotty]

On 12/21/2023 at 8:19 AM, Nifty Newtling said:

Hello!

I'm gearing up to run A Fire in the Darkness from the Starter Set soon. I love the adventure, it really brings the texture and conflicts of Sartar to life.

I have a few questions and things I'm trying to sort out before play. Heavily spoiler-ific so I'll put them behind tags.

I ran this earlier this year, and didn't make any changes, my players loved it.

Spoiler

 

On 12/21/2023 at 8:19 AM, Nifty Newtling said:

First, a specific rules-ish question, regarding the effects of the phases of the moon. A sidebar in the adventure says that during Dying Moon and Black Moon, the wyter "cannot manifest physically". What exactly does this mean? Does it mean it can't use its madness or MP absorption abilities? RPG says to initiate spirit combat vs. someone in the Middle World the spirit must take a round to "make itself visible" - is that the same as manifesting physically?

As it's an elemental, to do anything it must manifest in the Middle World. If it can't, it just stays a spirit in the spirit world.

On 12/21/2023 at 8:19 AM, Nifty Newtling said:

(I know my Maximum Game Fun sense tells me that the wyter should not be completely helpless during these phases. But having have some kind of disadvantage makes sense, and I'm wondering what the intent is here)

It's just a facet of the Lunar Way. It's not helpless, it just can't do anything. Anyone who want's to find it will have to discorporate, cast some kind of spell that makes spirits visible.

On 12/21/2023 at 8:19 AM, Nifty Newtling said:

My other concerns have to do with the background series of events that happen before the adventure starts, and trying to understand what the cultists were trying to do exactly and what their agenda is during the adventure. The high-level story is that the cultists have accidentally set the wyter free, and in its madness, it has been stalking Jonstown at night and attacking residents. The cultists want to stop it, and discovered that it fears fire, so have been using fire to try to drive it back into the ruined temple. There is also a suggestion that they were seeking to destroy it with fire, but this seems like it won't work (it can't be destroyed while the banner is intact). They've accidentally burned three houses with these efforts with flames engulfing the fourth as we start the adventure.

Okay, this makes sense at a high level. But...

1. The first house that was burned belonged to one of the Seven Mothers cultists, Andralor the Potter. Why would the wyter have been attacking there? Quite a coincidence that it chose one of the handful of cultists in town! (Honestly it looks to me like this scene is just meant to drop the clue of his and his sister's identity, plus the fact that he created the lamps found at other scenes, and introduce the bad blood around the burning of the Seven Mothers temple. But it doesn't make sense.)

It's a coincidence that allows the adventure to start. My players just thought that they'd cornered it in one of their houses.

On 12/21/2023 at 8:19 AM, Nifty Newtling said:

1. Why is the background action starting with houses being burned, anyway?

It gives the adventurers a trail to investigate and discover the true story.

On 12/21/2023 at 8:19 AM, Nifty Newtling said:

1. How would the cultists manage to know that the wyter was rampaging and needed to be stopped before it actually managed to, you know, attack someone and drive them mad or something? Isn't that a more likely starting point? (I can think of other starting points. Just not the arson, because that has to be reactive.)

They know they released it by accident and they have understand the wyter and it's abilities. After a few encounters spread as rumours, they realised what it was doing and they realised they should try and stop it. None of my players questioned this.

On 12/21/2023 at 8:19 AM, Nifty Newtling said:

1. It's stated that Ferene (the priestess) accidentally discovered its fear of fire while encountering it with a torch in Under the Hill. So there's no arson before that discovery. But again, unless the wyter had already caused some sort of trouble, why would she be in Under the Hill looking for it?

My players reasoned that wants to know the fate of her priest and the wyter must be able to tell her(I didn't say otherwise).

On 12/21/2023 at 8:19 AM, Nifty Newtling said:

1. Putting that aside, once things get rolling, the cultists want to cover things up so they use fire to try to contain the wyter, and accidental arson happens to house 1. They try to cover up another wyter attack, maybe now adding the intent to destroy with fire, and accidental arson happens to house 2. They try to coverup another wyter attack, maybe still trying to destroy it, and accidental arson happens to house 3. But maybe the fourth time they finally have enough oil to keep things quiet? I get that they are desperate and don't have a lot of options, but this is like the worst coverup attempt of all time. After 2 or at least 3 fires they wouldn't try something else?

They are out of options, and pretty much worried about backlash. They've gone to far already.

On 12/21/2023 at 8:19 AM, Nifty Newtling said:

1. Why would they try to destroy it with fire anyway? They know it's the wyter, they know it's in the banner and it can't be destroyed or controlled unless they get the banner.

The protagonists in stories don't have to follow rational plans. My players just thought it was a Lunar guardian spirit of the temple. No one mentioned wyter. Ferene likely know somethings about the banner, but she's only an assistant priestess, so only an initiate. She doesn't know everything the priest did. The players believed as it was just a spirit, they could drive it off. It was only later they realised it was wyter.

On 12/21/2023 at 8:19 AM, Nifty Newtling said:

1. So even less reason to keep trying to burn it. And what's their plan to get to the banner?

There is no plan. The adventurers need to do it.

On 12/21/2023 at 8:19 AM, Nifty Newtling said:

1. Okay, the guards at the temple are keeping them away. So what's their plan to deal with that? What are they waiting for?

There is no plan. They are out of options and out of the city. Everyone knows who they are.

On 12/21/2023 at 8:19 AM, Nifty Newtling said:

Maybe it seems like I'm being too nitpicky here. It's quite possible that my players will not actually think of or learn enough to ask these questions. But I feel like this could be tightened up with a few changes and additions - and I am cooking up some ideas, but anyone else out there have any thoughts or suggestions?

My players realised what was going on with no problems (I had only 2 of 5 who had played RQ before)

On 12/21/2023 at 8:19 AM, Nifty Newtling said:

Let me take a step back for a moment. I think that there's a sort of implicit head fake in the scenario, where the authors want the players to conclude that the cultists are simple cartoon villains trying to burn the town for the sake of vengeance, and then figure out the true story and change their perspective to see the shades of grey. Trying to create an epiphany. It's not explicit - maybe I'm reading too much into it?

Due to reputation rolls, one of my players knew Dorasa. Another who had done the Cattle Raid scenario in the GM Screen Pack, was recognised by Andralor who is from the malini tribe. None of my players had lunar baggage from previous games (especially the two who previously played sable riders from a Lunarised clan - there was a super moment when one of the players said "I think we [the clan] might be the baddies...")

On 12/21/2023 at 8:19 AM, Nifty Newtling said:

But while I love the ambiguity in this story and how the heroes may face some difficult moral choices, I don't think you need to force an epiphany with this kind of head fake. My instincts tell me the players are likely to assume "bad Lunars" on their own (the high Hate (Lunar Empire) scores on their sheets will help). And if you try to sell it too hard, they might just kill 'em all and jump right past those interesting choices.

For my players, none of the group were the Lunar Empire, and many shared loyalty traits with the NPCs. The dilemma was really about what do you do with people who are from your tribe who worship other gods who are very similar to yours, and not hostile.

See what the players do, have fun.

 

[Geoff R Evil]

You make a lot of good points, and I too found it weird that the lunar kept burning places down, same mistake repeated too many times, and also agree it’s weird it starts in a lunar household. However the use of fire makes sense when you consider they are just trying to coral it back to the banner in the collapsed lunar temple.

However apart from the repeated mistake issue, my players never raised it as an issue.

I played this in Pavis after the lunar were kicked out and their temple destroyed. It transfers easily. In my game the ruined lunar temple had been handed over to Eurmali’s to use as a a temple, a calculated insult by Argrath before he buggered off again to Sartar. In my game the Eurmalis from argraths magical troupe had created a massive yurt illusion over the lunar temple to eradicate its presence, which meant the access to the collapsed rock area was also hidden, and this also contributed to the madness of the lune. The adventurers included an Eurmali initiate, so that added to the fun. Eventually they negotiated with the Eurmalis to pay for a massive party, got them so pissed they saw the adventurers summoning an Earth elemental to dig down as a bit of wild drunken fun. 
Once in the temple underground area, I added a lunar high priest wraith and some other undead, and eventually they forced the Lune back into its banner, and then the Eurmali ripped the silken banner off and Swallowed it…..that gave me pause for thought, what inter dimensional space is it now in? But I allowed the Eurmali to use the opportunity to beat it in spirit combat then bind it by sacrificing power so it now serves as a bound spirit….of course it’s as mad as a lune and continuously whispering stuff in his ear, and he has now developed a aversion to fire in all its forms, and will probably drive the Eurmali mad in the end too. 
all in all, a fun scenario with some great long term impacts.

[Nifty Newtling]

Thanks for the replies! I've been distracted by the holidays and haven't had the chance to check back for a bit.

On 12/21/2023 at 3:22 PM, Scornado said:

I am currently running this scenario but set a year after the liberation of Jonstown.  It's a great scenario but you have to do some work.  See here for my write-up - it may give some ideas https://www.scorn.me.uk/RQ website/Stories/1626-3 Earth Season C2.html

Thank you, I will check it out.

Spoiler

Quote

he Eurmali ripped the silken banner off and Swallowed it…..that gave me pause for thought, what inter dimensional space is it now in? But I allowed the Eurmali to use the opportunity to beat it in spirit combat then bind it by sacrificing power so it now serves as a bound spirit….of course it’s as mad as a lune and continuously whispering stuff in his ear, and he has now developed a aversion to fire in all its forms, and will probably drive the Eurmali mad in the end too. 

This is awesome! Makes me wish there was a Eurmali in our group!

 

On 12/22/2023 at 12:43 PM, Scotty said:

I ran this earlier this year, and didn't make any changes, my players loved it.

See what the players do, have fun.

 

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I'll repeat that I know I'm being kinda picky with my questions, and more likely than not the players will not notice the potential weak points, or if they do, they'll make up their own explanations, which it sounds like happened at your table. That is great!

For my part, I have little concern that just running the scenario as written will run into major problems. But, I've been reading some advice recently about how to structure and run mystery scenarios, and I'm thinking about reworking some things to put that advice into practice, as an exercise. If I manage to get that done before we play, I'll share the results here.

Short of doing that, I have thought up a few answers to my own questions that don't require much in the way of rewrites, which I'll share now. (Definitely won't force these things unless they come up, and if the players have their own ideas that won't throw things completely off the rails, then of course I'll go with those instead!)

Spoiler

Q: Why was the first fire at a cultists' house? How did the cultists know the wyter fears fire?

A: This is actually the event which caused the wyter to get loose. The cultists gathered in the house and attempted to summon the spirit of the dead high priest (to ask for advice? maybe even to try to bind or ally him somehow?). Instead the wyter manifested and attacked. In the confusion, one of those ritual lamps got smashed and started the fire. The cultists observed that the wyter fled from the fire.

(Another way to go is that anti-Lunar citizens actually did set this fire, and that somehow led to the cultists taking whatever action caused the wyter to be freed... <waves hands> Could be interesting actually, but I haven't got it quite nailed down)

Q: How did the cultists initially get involved with trying to stop the wyter - or, how would things seem to start with the (accidental) arsons, which would seem to be reactive in nature?

A: The simple answer is that Ferene had mystic visions or dreams that gave forewarning that the wyter was going to do bad things. A more complicated answer is that the wyter struck once before they fully understood what was going on and left a victim or two catatonic, but no one has connected this with the subsequent arsons. The players might be able to put it together later (maybe conversations with healers after the Insanity in the Streets episode or finding out about the catatonic Senrik. but they wouldn't need to learn about this to solve the mystery)

Q: Why keep trying to use fire over and over although it's counterproductive?

A: Maybe they used it successfully a time or two, driving the wyter back and preventing an attack without accidentally starting a fire. Again the players don't need to figure this out, but you could add a clue about this happening someplace if you cared to.

Also, although I think it's fine to say the cultists don't know what to do and are just sort of paralyzed between leaving town for good and sticking around vaguely hoping for some kind of miracle, maybe they are buying time for a last ditch plan. They think that they might be able to calm the wyter long enough for Ferene to bind it by performing a ritual in the temple ruins, but only on the night of the full moon. (Of course their plan will not work - the adventurers are the heroes here, and frankly I'd be careful using this idea. We don't want to upstage the heroes. I would keep it in my pocket and only put it into play depending on what the players were doing. At least it's an answer if the players ask the cultists "what were you trying to do anyway besides burning down the city?" You could even fudge the timing if needed - e.g., full moon would be best, but they couldn't get past the guards that night, so they're trying the next night even though they doubt it will work.)

 

 

[Scornado]

My instance (linked above) is PBeM and that means the players have a lot of time to think and find holes in the plot ... oh yes.

 

[Nick Brooke]

Here is some feedback I provided on the draft scenario, I don’t think it was actioned but you might find it useful:

Spoiler

Slightly meta: the root cause of the wyter’s madness is that the Seven Mothers cultists are praying for different, incompatible things, and there’s no High Priestess to tell the wyter which prayers to answer. (I get the feeling it’s like a buffer overflow – too many requests are backing up in a system the High Priestess would usually wipe clean every week at a worship ceremony).

• “Their prayers are being heard by the wyter but are mixed: some are angry at the people of Jonstown and some merely wish to restore things to the way they were. These prayers cannot be passed on to the High Priest, who was killed in the fall of the temple.”; “Their conflicted prayers keep confusing the addled spirit.”

Given that, might it make sense to (a) state explicitly what each cultist has been praying for (perhaps in their stat blocks?), and (b) have their assigned Runes both (1) aligned with their desires and (2) in conflict with one another? Right now their Runes are fairly bland and consistent (lots of Moon + Death), but Runes on the character sheet express personality.

• Vargusin prays for the re-establishment of a publicly-accepted Seven Mothers Temple in Jonstown, with Ferene as its priestess. This is the civilised / conservative / “nothing changes, can’t we all get along?” option, hence my suggested additions.(Runes: Death 75%, Harmony 60%, Man 60%, Moon 80%, Stasis 75%)
• His priestess Ferene prays for the wyter to stop attacking people, as it will expose them. (Runes:Darkness 50%, Fertility 75%, Harmony 75%, Illusion 60%, Moon 80%). The Illusion rating is because she wants to hide; it works well with her Darkness and both Runes conflict nicely with Fostur’s hypothetical Truth and Fire/Sky Rune ratings.
• Andralor prays to be left alone to worship the Seven Mothers in Jonstown in peace. (Runes: change Death 60% to Fertility 60% – he doesn’t want any separation or violence, and this increases the discord in the prayers received by the wyter. His other Rune ratings make sense to me: Earth 70%, Man 75%, Moon 80%, Stasis 60%)
• His sister Ivarni prays to leave Jonstown with Andralor, head for Lunar Tarsh, and get revenge (Runes: Air 60%, Death 75%, Disorder 60%, Moon 80%, Movement 75%). The Air and Disorder Runes are because she’s a violent thug, the Movement Rune is because she wants to hightail it outta town; they clash with other cultists’ desires.
• Dorasa prays that anybody who comes after the cultists will get what’s coming to them. (Runes: Beast 40% feels low for the “interesting” number in an opposed pair: are we saying she’s not a very good hunter? I’d bump this up to Beast 60% and that’s why she’s (a) a wilderness type and (b) conflicting with all those Man Rune prayers. Other Runes are fine: Death 65%, Earth 40%, Moon 60%; consider chucking in Disorder 60% as well?).
• Her husband Fostur prays to avoid direct conflict and continue worshipping in peace. (Runes: suggest Fire/Sky, Harmony, Man & Truth around 60%, as well as Fertility & Moon around 80% as cult Runes: he currently has no statblock, although everyone else gets one)

This information’s already there, I just wonder if it would make sense to be up front about it? Also, maybe laying it out like this will inspire ways to make it even twistier… and giving new players the idea that Runes unlock Personalities can’t be done early enough.

 

Edited December 27, 2023 by Nick Brooke
Formatting

[narsilion]

I agree that the actions of the cultists seem far-fetched (let's burn down the city to defend the inhabitants). Moreover, despite the lengthy descriptions of individual fire sites, there is no information, for example, when these fires broke out - you have to make it up yourself, based on the frame with the given moon phases. And yet this is important for the investigation.
The scenario is inventive and contains elements of investigation, but players accustomed to urban adventures and investigations would probably not buy it. A story, no matter how inventive, must be presented convincingly.
My approach is to make cases of insanity the threat that the city fears and that is the cause of the investigation.
However, I would only do two arson attacks. The story would go like this:
• the ghost attacks people, there are cyclic cases of madness and catatonia
• cultists discover that the ghost is afraid of fire
• they try to lure him to the potter's house and surround him with fire, and in the process burn the building
• they fail, but they are convinced that they "almost succeeded"
• they try again (another building, the one from the introduction to the adventure, where players can help) and this time they fail terribly, they run away from the city and don't know what to do
• player characters enter the action
The hints can be easily divided between two, not four fires, as well as several cases of madness (you can even add a rumor that a red spider is wandering around the city and its bite causes madness). And you need to remember to focus cases of madness and arson on days when the influence of the moon is strong

[Stephen L]

I ran this scenario last year, and had a great time with it. Half my group were new to role playing, let alone Glorantha, and as we're still going as a group, I think it that means it was a success.

Funnily enough, I almost never use a scenario as written, they usually need all kind of tweaks/rewrites to fit the narrative of the campaign, but this slotted in really easily, and I ran as is, almost a first for me.

It did take some amount of prep, but that was just very careful reading and making notes (and a dramatis persona list, noting page numbers for reference).

I've re-read your e-mail and personally don't see the inconsistencies in the original, but I might just be misremembering, it was last year, and my memory isn't the best!

Spoiler

On 12/21/2023 at 8:19 AM, Nifty Newtling said:

The first house that was burned belonged to one of the Seven Mothers cultists, Andralor the Potter. Why would the wyter have been attacking there? Quite a coincidence that it chose one of the handful of cultists in town! (Honestly it looks to me like this scene is just meant to drop the clue of his and his sister's identity, plus the fact that he created the lamps found at other scenes, and introduce the bad blood around the burning of the Seven Mothers temple. But it doesn't make sense.)

Makes sense to me - the wyter is loitering around the cultists as it starts to foray from the temple. There could well be a resonance that it feels that makes it not unlikely that's where it manifests early on. Also who says the Wyter is attacking? The cultists are trying to contain it, get it back to the temple, and it's their failed attempt that causes the fire. They hardly want a mad lunar spirit on the loose in Jonstown.

On 12/21/2023 at 8:19 AM, Nifty Newtling said:

Why is the background action starting with houses being burned, anyway? How would the cultists manage to know that the wyter was rampaging and needed to be stopped before it actually managed to, you know, attack someone and drive them mad or something? Isn't that a more likely starting point? (I can think of other starting points. Just not the arson, because that has to be reactive.)

The background action starting point is indeed well indeed before the houses burning - the death of the high priest and burning of the temple. Later, the wyter is disturbed by the cultists who just want to worship their gods again, and regain rune points, and it all flows from there. Perhaps there have been other incidents of madness from attacks from the wyter, but I'd be surprised if anyone made particular note of them- it's after a traumatic event in the history of the town, it's liberation, so you'd expect psychological trauma, so who would make any connection?
The fires are only the start of player involvement, if it weren't for the fires, and were cases of psychological trauma, it would be a case for the Chalana Arroy to deal with, and Jonstown is well stocked with Chalan Arroy, so why involve the players.

On 12/21/2023 at 8:19 AM, Nifty Newtling said:

But again, unless the wyter had already caused some sort of trouble, why would she be in Under the Hill looking for it

No, the cultists want to worship again. They have lost connection with their gods, and that matters in Glorantha. After the sack of the temple, a bit of time for things to settle, then they return to attempt to worship. They wake the wyter, which is mad, and from then on it's down hill.  I *really* don't think they would be trying to destroy the wyter, they just want to contain it. They want it all to stop, and have no idea how to.

On 12/21/2023 at 8:19 AM, Nifty Newtling said:

 I get that they are desperate and don't have a lot of options, but this is like the worst coverup attempt of all time. After 2 or at least 3 fires they wouldn't try something else?

No, they don't have *any* options. Look at them, they don't have anyone equipped to deal with this. A bunch of kids/drunks/misfits/bandits/a security guard. And a scribe. They're so far out of their depth...

And they are not trying to cover things up with arson, they are just trying to contain the situation, and don't know how to.

All they want is to worship their gods in peace, and do no-one any harm. Let alone destroy their Wyter!

When the players found them, they were at the point of giving up and leaving Jonstown and the Wyter for good... A bit step, since, unless they leave Sartar, they;re unlikely to find anywhere to worship, and would effectively be godless. Not good in Glorantha.

On 12/21/2023 at 8:19 AM, Nifty Newtling said:

(I know my Maximum Game Fun sense tells me that the wyter should not be completely helpless during these phases. But having have some kind of disadvantage makes sense, and I'm wondering what the intent is here)

When I ran it, things went quiet during these phases... It's just a case of scheduling events, and having time for the player to investigate (or not, if things drive quickly to a climax). It worked. It was full moon by the time the party were exploring the temple... oops. They got a proper fright. Ran away screaming, I seem to recall.

 

[Joerg]

Even post-Dragon Rise, there are bound to be several thousand Seven Mother initiates native to Sartar. The Jonstown temple would have suffered quite a bit of attrition by the battle that destroyed the southernmost portion of the city, with those Lunar officials not invited to the Dragonrise temple dedication likely casualties or captives (possibly deportees, possibly lingering in ransom captivity) from the fighting for Jonstown.

Out in the "stockades" (larger clan or tribal centers across Sartar, like e.g. Red Cow Fort) there may be local shrines if not temples surviving, and initiates should be able to find ways to remain active within their cult semi-clandestinely without leaving (Old) Sartar.

Beyond Dangerford, the tribes are under Lunar Tarshite control - not quite occupation, but allies to local nobles projecting the power of Pharandros and his court. Plenty of places to worship the Seven Mothers right on the caravan route on the royal highways, all it takes is a short stint as a caravan guard or drover around the relevant dates. Initiates from Jonstown are less than three days of road travel from such highway side shrines or even minor temples.

[Scornado]

Because I've set the scenario 1 year after the liberation, the approach of the anniversary causing the wyter to "wake up", I have assumed that over the year any other Seven Mothers cultists have left Jonstown (or died) because it's just not a good place to live any more.  The dwindling congregation must have an effect on the wyter, indeed I assume it has contributed to its madness.  The way things are going, the remaining few Seven Mothers worshippers are going to leave for points north in my campaign.  The departure of the last remaining congregants will probably solve the problem as the wyter will wither and presumably dissipate or return to the spirit world.  The loss of the congregation is a weak point for setting the story a year after the liberation: of course, as the wyter is "mad" it may not behave as a normal wyter would - that's my excuse. 

[Stephen L]

18 hours ago, Joerg said:

Even post-Dragon Rise, there are bound to be several thousand Seven Mother initiates native to Sartar.

Quite likely so.

However, what is important is the perception of the cultists in the scenario, and as far as they're concerned, their temple has been sacked, their high priest killed, and the Wyter driven mad. I don't think it implausible that they don't have high expectation of freedom of worship elsewhere in Sartar, and are probably too scared to leave.

Doubtless there are 7 mothers cultists who've left Jonstown, to lie low with relatives somewhere quieter, or fled northwards.  Noting, though, refugees on a significant scale rarely receive a warm welcome, especially in troubled times, and indeed where the authorities are worried about possible local Orlanthi uprisings...

So we're left with the rational behind those cultists who've remained in Jonstown.

5 hours ago, Scornado said:

Because I've set the scenario 1 year after the liberation, the approach of the anniversary causing the wyter to "wake up", I have assumed that over the year any other Seven Mothers cultists have left Jonstown (or died) because it's just not a good place to live any more.

That all makes sense.

Actually it was about a year after the dragon rise in my campaign that I ran the scenario. I was surprised how few changes I felt were needed, it all worked fine... I just have the cultists being rather timid, and taking a long time to make it to the temple to try and worship, which is what (eventually) woke the Wyter.

But the feeling of impermanence in Kallyr's Sartar, which never really feels like a long term solution, helps, since the atmosphere in Jonstown one year on isn't that different from immediately after liberation, the expectation (shared by the players) is that the Lunars are gathering their forces northwards, to shortly sweep away the rebels.

[Nick Brooke]

20 minutes ago, Stephen L said:

the expectation (shared by the players) is that the Lunars are gathering their forces northwards, to shortly sweep away the rebels.

King Pharandros the Tarshite
By the Red Moon he swore
That the great house of Hon-eel
Should suffer wrong no more.
By the Red Moon he swore it,
And named a trysting day,
And bade his messengers ride forth,
East and west and south and north,
To summon his array...

[Nifty Newtling]

Well, we finally had our session to play the adventure. We did not quite finish the scenario due to time constraints, but I think it went pretty well!

Spoiler

I did make a few changes here and there to the structure of the adventure. I reduced the number of fires to three (including the one that starts the scenario), with the third fire having actually been prevented by the cultists, though the leatherworker there did suffer from wyter-inflicted madness (and also spotted one of the cultists carrying a torch just before being afflicted). I added the Chalana Arroy temple as an explicit location where clues could be found (including about the leatherworker), and the party went there first.

Interestingly, they did not really pursue the leads about the specific cultists, maybe because they had enough other things to chase, in part due to my changes. They did end up visiting the temple, and a special success on a search of the above-ground portion revealed the staircase. So they went down (still during daylight), fought the rubble runners, and searched the inner sanctum. Somehow they all managed to fail search checks in the sanctum! So they did not spot the piece of the priest's robe under the altar, and thus completely missed the bronze banner.

But something else pretty interesting happened. They did spot the collection box (it's in plain sight, after all). But rather than looting it, one of the PCs picked up one of the coins scattered around and put it into the box! This took me completely off guard - excellent! The wyter was watching them from the Spirit World this whole time without taking action (they didn't do anything hostile or disrespectful), so I had it react to the "donation" by manifesting above the altar, staring at the character who put the coin in, and appearing confused. (Sort of mirroring my reaction as the GM. 😁) Then after a moment it faded out back to the Spirit World.

That is where we stopped the session. The players are fairly baffled about what is going on, but definitely had a good time. I think they plan on trying to hunt down the cultists next. Depending on timing (mainly where they are when night falls), I may have the cultists appear at the temple on their last-ditch mission to bind the wyter. Or they still might be able to find them at the campground. I'm excited to see what happens!

 

[Scornado]

Another question has just come up.

Spoiler

Arimaxilus' Madness power reads "Madness: When it partially envelops a victim, it matches its POW against the victim’s. It can attack like this once per melee
round against one target. If successful, consult the quality of the success on the Madness table (see below) to determine the effect."  I assume that's a Resistance Table roll - which means either success or failure.  However the Madness Table provided has results for Critical, Special, Success, Failure, and Fumble.  How does one get, for example, a Critical result?

 

[David Scott]

9 minutes ago, Scornado said:

Another question has just come up.

  Hide contents

Arimaxilus' Madness power reads "Madness: When it partially envelops a victim, it matches its POW against the victim’s. It can attack like this once per melee
round against one target. If successful, consult the quality of the success on the Madness table (see below) to determine the effect."  I assume that's a Resistance Table roll - which means either success or failure.  However the Madness Table provided has results for Critical, Special, Success, Failure, and Fumble.  How does one get, for example, a Critical result?

When rolling POW vs POW use the  result threshold with the Ability Results Table, eg 15 POW vs 18 POW has a 35% chance of success so using the Ability Results Table (RQSS 8 or RQG 143):

Ability   Critical Special Success      Failure        Fumble

33–37      1–2        1–7   Per ability  Per ability     98–00

[Scornado]

Thanks David.