Back to Prax (from Nochet) ?

[g33k]

Got a couple of White Bull Praxians (1 PC, 1 NPC) who've been doing the fish-out-of-water thing in Nochet, but it's time to go home.

Both Praxians are Uroxi, so their 1st destination will likely be The Block.  There's another PC -- a CA White Lady - who is tagging along because she has been advised it would be Politically Expedient if she were (far) away for at least a year or two; she figures she can mitigate the bloodshed of a couple of SB's, and they can offer her physical protection against whatever might not honor her white robes, so it's a match made in... well... practicality, not heaven.  😉

They've decided not to hire onto a caravan, they're going to travel independently (overland, not across the Mirrorsea).

The "obvious" route -- I think -- is along the edge of the water, passing south of the Shadow Plateau & through southern Heortland, south of the Stormwalk, then turning northward & passing near Monkey Ruins.  But maybe I'm forgetting a problem with that...? Should/would they be going upriver from Nochet, and passing north of the plateau, going through Beast Valley & Sartar &c?  Or am I overlooking some other, better route that would occur to them?

(eta:  both players are new to playing in Glorantha, so it's tempting to throw them into  All. That. Sartar.   But in-character, they have no real reasons to linger & explore; they want to go back home, reconnect with their clans & tribes, and with the White Bull Society.)

Any advice as to route?  And, for any route recommended, and in-character "must-see" places (or GM-perspective "must-adventure" locations /  modules, whether Chaosium or JC)?

Thanks!

Edited January 30 by g33k

[Shiningbrow]

I think it depends on what you want them to do/see. And what the priority is. It also depends on what year, and how popular they're going to be in certain regions.

I disagree with your 'obvious' route... too much 'overland'. Although there's going to be obvious trade routes, they're less well defended, meaning more chance of combat.

But, it also depends on whether they want to spend money or not (ie, tolls and/or passage).

 

According to the Guide, the Tangle is virtually impassable, so that's really not an option (although you could get through the marsh, if you can convince the Newtlings to help out somehow). So, at best, you're either taking the boat across Mirrorsea to Karse, and then the roads. One advantage to this - they get to see the Block!!!

 

If I was doing it - I'd go north up the Creek-Stream, and then onto the King's Roads from Duck Point eastwards to Boldhome.. then decide to keep going further east to Swenstown, or since you're already that far north, via Herongreen, and back onto another major road. This route would be the safest - but most costly (other than the boat to Karse). Roads also mean greater speed! And nicer overnight stops. And less midges. The CA is going to prefer this route - and is more likely to be given various honours on the way, making their trip somewhat more pleasant than the SBs 😜

Of course, you could instead cut back south from, say, Blackwell, and then around the Stormwalks....

[Joerg]

The route south of the Shadow Plateau will involve at least very wet feet even at lowest tide. The marsh around Frog Island reaches all the way to the slopes of the Plateau.

There might be some passage mountaineering in a few hundred feet above Sea Level, possibly meeting balkonies with access from inside the Plateau. Not exactly a Praxian speciality, though (unless these Storm Bulls have experience climbing the Block).

The Fish Road from Nochet to Backford might still be operable.

Following the Lyksos, Runnel and New River upriver to the old Creak-Stream River bed is not as dry a route as a Praxian might prefer, and it ends in the Dammed Marsh just south of Beast Valley.

The least problematic overland route south of Sartar would be through the Grazelands, past Smoking Ruin and Wild Temple towards the Whitewall road south. The Southern Wilds are detailed in Chaosium's The Smoking Ruins, with encounters to choose from.

[jajagappa]

5 hours ago, g33k said:

The "obvious" route -- I think -- is along the edge of the water, passing south of the Shadow Plateau & through southern Heortland, south of the Stormwalk, then turning northward & passing near Monkey Ruins.  But maybe I'm forgetting a problem with that...? Should/would they be going upriver from Nochet, and passing north of the plateau, going through Beast Valley & Sartar &c?  Or am I overlooking some other, better route that would occur to them?

South of the Shadow Plateau is largely very difficult swamp (Bottomland Marsh) and dense, overgrown woods (The Tangle). As the Guide notes: The Tangle is an area so overgrown that it is difficult for anyone to pass through. It lies between the Shadow Plateau and the bay and drifts off imperceptibly into the Bottomland Marsh.

If you're avoiding the obvious sea passage from Nochet to Karse, then your better choice is north of the Shadow Plateau. Go up the Lyksos to the New River into Beast Valley. Find guides to take you to Vorda Hill and Volsaxiland and then to Whitewall. The shorter path then is along the Sartar Royal Roads. However, if you've got Storm Bulls, take the Heortland Road south to Durengard, then the trails up the Bullflood and immediately south of Stormwalk Mountain so that you can honor Storm Bull at his Low Temple and cut through to Prax.  

[Erol of Backford]

On 1/30/2024 at 7:19 AM, jajagappa said:

then the trails up the Bullflood and immediately south of Stormwalk Mountain so that you can honor Storm Bull at his Low Temple and cut through to Prax

“Queendom of Jab” is there and trails up in the hills will be perilous, fraught with danger will they not? Are the trails somewhat where the red dashed line is?

Also where is this Low Temple on the map?

Thanks!

[jajagappa]

1 hour ago, Erol of Backford said:

“Queendom of Jab” is there and trails up in the hills will be perilous, fraught with danger will they not? Are the trails somewhat where the red dashed line is?

Remember that the Queendom of Jab doesn't occur until Gagix becomes Scorpion Queen and overruns that area after 1616. Belintar would have kept such largely in check (as would plenty of Storm Bull worshipers). The center of scorpionmen queendoms before then is within the confines of the Footprint - largely trapped by the high cliff walls (some 1000+ feet) and the Stone Wood. But Chaos being Chaos, they would find ways to climb up (or perhaps fly depending on the Chaos type) or follow the burrows of krarshtkids. That's how I think Gagix eventually erupted into the Jab Hills - combination of krarshtkid tunnels and limestone caverns. The Jab Hills before 1616 were dotted with isolated clans and their villages. Free-roaming sky bulls and titanotheres used to graze there, but have now moved south of the Bullflood.

As for the trail, from Bullflood it largely follows the course of the Bullflood River (vs. inland), but once in the mountains, yes, the trail goes through the vale between Stormwalk Mountain and the mountain immediately to the south (which I've named Founders' Peak - i.e. where the Storm Bull's sons, the Founders of the tribes, were born). The Low Temple (aka the Hoof Shrine) is at the western end of that vale. You can either continue on to Prax from there, or begin the ascent of Stormwalk (which as the spiral indicates is a winding trail that wraps seven times around the mountain to reach the top). One of the great wind child aeries is near the top of Founders' Peak.

[Joerg]

10 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Free-roaming sky bulls and titanotheres used to graze there, but have now moved south of the Bullflood.

While I know that there are heroquesting ways to bond with a sky bull, "free roaming titanotheres" makes me wonder whether there are clans who have semi-domesticated these meat mountains?

[jajagappa]

2 hours ago, Joerg said:

"free roaming titanotheres" makes me wonder whether there are clans who have semi-domesticated these meat mountains?

I suspect not. They're likely considered sacred storm beasts, close to the gods.

[Squaredeal Sten]

On 1/30/2024 at 1:28 AM, g33k said:

Got a couple of White Bull Praxians (1 PC, 1 NPC) who've been doing the fish-out-of-water thing in Nochet, but it's time to go home.

Both Praxians are Uroxi, so their 1st destination will likely be The Block.  There's another PC -- a CA White Lady - who is tagging along because she has been advised it would be Politically Expedient if she were (far) away for at least a year or two; she figures she can mitigate the bloodshed of a couple of SB's, and they can offer her physical protection against whatever might not honor her white robes, so it's a match made in... well... practicality, not heaven.  😉

They've decided not to hire onto a caravan, they're going to travel independently (overland, not across the Mirrorsea).

The "obvious" route -- I think -- is along the edge of the water, passing south of the Shadow Plateau & through southern Heortland, south of the Stormwalk, then turning northward & passing near Monkey Ruins.  But maybe I'm forgetting a problem with that...? Should/would they be going upriver from Nochet, and passing north of the plateau, going through Beast Valley & Sartar &c?  Or am I overlooking some other, better route that would occur to them?

(eta:  both players are new to playing in Glorantha, so it's tempting to throw them into  All. That. Sartar.   But in-character, they have no real reasons to linger & explore; they want to go back home, reconnect with their clans & tribes, and with the White Bull Society.)

Any advice as to route?  And, for any route recommended, and in-character "must-see" places (or GM-perspective "must-adventure" locations /  modules, whether Chaosium or JC)?

Thanks!

The river route to Crystal City and Beast Valley or the Grazelands is very circuitous.  Not necessarily safe either, the Grazelanders are not on good terms with Praxians and the Beastfolk don't like humans traipsing through their land all the time.  And after Grazelands or Beast Valley it still goes through southern Sartar.  I don't know why they are avoiding Sartar but that's on them.  It is going to be a long land route rather than a simple boat trip up the Creek-Stream system  because the river gorge next to Crystsl City is probably not going to be passable going upstream.  Lots of occasions for adventure, but a crazy route if they are going to Prax. it's like going from Texas to Florida via Oregon.

 

[Erol of Backford]

Sorry for the tardy post but, slightly related there were several routes from Sartar to Prax - the Block, in RQA 03, 1993-94 if you have it handy.

One runs from Jansholm, through Backford and south of the Footprint over Stormwalk.

Seems like a boat from Nochet to Backford, run with the Syphon's current upriver to Backford would be the fastest route into the Plateau. From Backford to Bullflood, then up the mountain to the Stormbull Shrine and on the Barbarian Town... easy enough.

[jajagappa]

1 hour ago, Erol of Backford said:

One runs from Jansholm, through Backford and south of the Footprint over Stormwalk.

I suspect that's the only place you'll find a map suggesting that as feasible.

1 hour ago, Erol of Backford said:

Seems like a boat from Nochet to Backford, run with the Syphon's current upriver to Backford would be the fastest route into the Plateau.

Fastest routes up onto the Heortland Plateau are:

1) boat to Karse, the road to Smithstone, and then onto the Heortland Road running south through Jansholm, Backford, and Durengard.

2) boat to Leskos, then either shallow draft boat to Durengard or the merchant's road to Durengard, and again you're at the Heortland Road.

Generally, I don't consider the Syphon to Backford as navigable for boats of any draft due to rocky inlet and dangerous undercurrents. Might make it in a small fishing boat (if using the Fish Road), or perhaps you'll be carried past and into the Footprint.

1 hour ago, Erol of Backford said:

From Backford to Bullflood, then up the mountain to the Stormbull Shrine and on the Barbarian Town... easy enough.

Durengard to Bullflood is much simpler as it's just the one river, and craft with minimal draft can navigate to Durengard. It's why Durengard is the main city of Heortland. 

[Erol of Backford]

10 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

Durengard to Bullflood

Agreed.

[g33k]

Thanks, all!

.... aaaaand my players have done the unexpected (of course) and are setting sail (Bison & Llama aboard!).  Crossing the Mirrorsea, at least.  Ludoch, likely.  Maybe Wolf Pirates.

Possibly to the God Forgot region (debarking at Refuge?  Though I think it swampy there, and may not accept the keel of most boats)
Maybe Durengard?  But honestly, that leaves several deep-cut rivers in the plateau, that it looks like they'll have to find a way across.
Duchamp?  It's at least 1 fewer river to cross... 

Or maybe on out of the Mirrorsea.
Is there anything of note on the coastline by Orani's Mistake?  That looks to be the shortest/fastest route to the Block, but they may have to pay extra for such an otherwise-pointless stop...

All the way to Corflu would mean cutting back, if they're to hit the Block.

[jajagappa]

43 minutes ago, g33k said:

Possibly to the God Forgot region (debarking at Refuge?  Though I think it swampy there, and may not accept the keel of most boats)
Maybe Durengard?  But honestly, that leaves several deep-cut rivers in the plateau, that it looks like they'll have to find a way across.

If their goal is Prax (e.g. Barbarian Town), take the boat to Refuge, then find a caravan heading north up the Bandori Valley and into Prax. 

Or go up the Bullflood to Durengard, take the Heortland Road south to Duchamp (on another largely non-navigable river) and Mount Passant, and then the road to the Bandori Valley.

But unless you're looking for trade opportunities enroute (in which case you want to go to Durengard), going by boat to Refuge will be the fastest. (Just don't get on the bad side of the Brithini ruler there.) If you go to Refuge, you could always stop off at Casino Town for a little gambling too. 

[jajagappa]

49 minutes ago, g33k said:

Is there anything of note on the coastline by Orani's Mistake?  That looks to be the shortest/fastest route to the Block, but they may have to pay extra for such an otherwise-pointless stop...

Mosquito infested swamps, high (nearly impassable) cliffs, and then once atop the cliffs, the barren wastes of Orani's Mistake. There are reasons there are no coastal towns between Refuge and Corflu.

If the Block is your destination, the fastest route is Refuge - Bandori Valley - Barbarian Town - Block.

The Holiest route for your Storm Bulls though would be up the Bullflood (the river is Storm Bull's child, after all) - Durengard (sacred Storm Bull temple on temple hill with great view of Stormwalk Mountain) - continue up the Bullflood to the town of same name (another holy Storm Bull temple) - then continue upriver to the mountain trail and stop at the Low Temple at the base of Stormwalk - and then continue on into Prax to Barbarian Town. It's a trek up-and-over the Storm Mountain range, though, so travel time highly variable depending on the season. 

[g33k]

TYVM @jajagappa!

@anyone:  I'm not finding any really-great maps of this region to show my players.

I've got a decent Choralinthor, but it doesn't even go up the fjords of Hendrikiland & Heortland to reach the major port cities.

"Kethaela-scaled.jpg" aka "Kethaela -or- The Holy Country" (from the WellOfDaliath) is pretty good, but (a) lacks key landmarks (Durengard? Hello!!?!) and really doesn't extend far enough to the East (for my purposes).

 

Ideally, I'd like
 - Durengard to Monkey Ruins along the North side of the map (more is welcome, but at least that much)
 - South far enough for the Troll Straits & God Forgot

[Shiningbrow]

2 hours ago, g33k said:

TYVM @jajagappa!

@anyone:  I'm not finding any really-great maps of this region to show my players.

I've got a decent Choralinthor, but it doesn't even go up the fjords of Hendrikiland & Heortland to reach the major port cities.

"Kethaela-scaled.jpg" aka "Kethaela -or- The Holy Country" (from the WellOfDaliath) is pretty good, but (a) lacks key landmarks (Durengard? Hello!!?!) and really doesn't extend far enough to the East (for my purposes).

 

Ideally, I'd like
 - Durengard to Monkey Ruins along the North side of the map (more is welcome, but at least that much)
 - South far enough for the Troll Straits & God Forgot

Do you mean other than The Guide pp 250+?? Or don't you have that? or do you mean more detailed?

[Joerg]

This overlay of Greg's maps re-discovered a few years ago may be the most detailed treatment of the region we are going to get (although prettier when regional supplements come). There used to be other images of these maps online, but a quick search of the Well did not turn up results within two minutes.

[Scotty]

2 hours ago, Joerg said:

This overlay of Greg's maps re-discovered a few years ago may be the most detailed treatment of the region we are going to get (although prettier when regional supplements come). There used to be other images of these maps online, but a quick search of the Well did not turn up results within two minutes.

These are part of the master maps that Jeff has made (based on Greg's originals) to create the one in the starter set of Northern Sartar. You can find others by searching:

Prax map: https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/?s=prax+map

The South west Prax map is here: https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/sw-prax/

Map pages are tagged map or maps, just add a homeland and the maps should appear if available.

Some may find the Holy Country overview map in the RQ Companion helpful.

[g33k]

@Joerg & @Scotty -- TYVM!

No one map seems to have exactly the view I "want" (on one map); but these have given me everything I need.
 

[g33k]

20 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

Do you mean other than The Guide pp 250+?? Or don't you have that? or do you mean more detailed?

My G2G is up on a top shelf, and I've tweaked my shoulder & don't wanna risk worsening it...
😕