Any adventures/reasons where/why the characters can be exiled?

[Joerg]

6 minutes ago, dracopticon said:

All true, but is Swenstown an important town or can it be that it is not so central in importance to Sartar as one of the more famous clans? And there is absolutely no map of Oakton anywhere. But, I could change the map into a smaller one and stay with the basic version of the Varmandi.

Swenstown is the tribal federation city of four tribes on the Praxian border - the Aranwyth, Keldon, Dundealos and Balkoth, with its walls and city rex instituted by Sartar himself. It is (or was) the interface with the Pol Joni in the Good Place and the Better Place, and the terminus of a royal highway. Caravans through Prax start from there, except for the northernmost ones which use the "Pavis Road" from the Torkani lands just south of the Indigo Mountains that connects with the Far Place.

Economically, Swenstown might be weaker than Jonstown or Wilmskirk as much of the produce of Killard Vale (the valley along the royal highway connecting Swenstown with Boldhome) gets leached off to Boldhome.

Still, it is the center for four tribes of Sartar, with about as many tribesfolk (altogether) than the Colymar. The Colymar already have two tribal "cities", Runegate (with three contributing clans) and Clearwine (nominally held by the Ernaldori, but also home to the temple which gets contribution from all the old Colymar clans except the Zethnorings who were forced to join the Locaem and associate with the Three Emeralds temple instead).

The Varmandi are (canonically) one of the smallest and least well-off clans of the Colymar. Giving them such a city would put them more than on par with Clearwine which houses the tribal king, the well-off Ernaldori plus a major Earth temple. They get a quite informative boxed text in the GM Screen adventure book in connection with the second of the three full scenarios in that set. They were also the sample clan in the RQ3 What My Father Told Me text (in the Genertela box) on the Orlanthi that was re-published in the HeroQuest Voices pdf, but that (once free) pdf is no longer (legally) available because it contains the HeroQuest trademark that Chaosium sold to the publishers of the board game.

Oakton is supposed to be this defensible but out of shape clan fortress with rather few fields around it, and with its herds mostly off in the high pastures.

[jajagappa]

4 hours ago, dracopticon said:

Thank you for the more obscure info. Had read about the feud between Kangharl and Leika, but not that Varmandi were involved, thought Kangharl came from the Taraling.

Both Kangharl and Leika are from the Taraling. The Varmandi are long-time troublemakers in the tribe. 

[dracopticon]

7 hours ago, Joerg said:

Swenstown is the tribal federation city of four tribes on the Praxian border - the Aranwyth, Keldon, Dundealos and Balkoth, with its walls and city rex instituted by Sartar himself. It is (or was) the interface with the Pol Joni in the Good Place and the Better Place, and the terminus of a royal highway. Caravans through Prax start from there, except for the northernmost ones which use the "Pavis Road" from the Torkani lands just south of the Indigo Mountains that connects with the Far Place.

Economically, Swenstown might be weaker than Jonstown or Wilmskirk as much of the produce of Killard Vale (the valley along the royal highway connecting Swenstown with Boldhome) gets leached off to Boldhome.

Still, it is the center for four tribes of Sartar, with about as many tribesfolk (altogether) than the Colymar. The Colymar already have two tribal "cities", Runegate (with three contributing clans) and Clearwine (nominally held by the Ernaldori, but also home to the temple which gets contribution from all the old Colymar clans except the Zethnorings who were forced to join the Locaem and associate with the Three Emeralds temple instead).

The Varmandi are (canonically) one of the smallest and least well-off clans of the Colymar. Giving them such a city would put them more than on par with Clearwine which houses the tribal king, the well-off Ernaldori plus a major Earth temple. They get a quite informative boxed text in the GM Screen adventure book in connection with the second of the three full scenarios in that set. They were also the sample clan in the RQ3 What My Father Told Me text (in the Genertela box) on the Orlanthi that was re-published in the HeroQuest Voices pdf, but that (once free) pdf is no longer (legally) available because it contains the HeroQuest trademark that Chaosium sold to the publishers of the board game.

Oakton is supposed to be this defensible but out of shape clan fortress with rather few fields around it, and with its herds mostly off in the high pastures.

A huge thank you Joerg for this write up! The picture totally clears on Swenstown now. I will, though, take the great tree part and maybe some more of Swenstown and 'cut and glue' (it's the words we use in Swedish when putting something together ad-hoc), to remake those parts into Oakton, if that is doable. 🙂

[Jose-san]

In my campaign the origin story of a Varmandi Babeester Gor initiate is that she was exiled from her clan because she killed her sister, but she doesn't remember the particulars, her memories are blocked somehow. This is generating a very interesting character arc about guilt and vengeance.

[EricW]

How about Lunar damage to the mythic landscape? The PC participants in a minor quest, to bring blessings to the tribe, and everything goes horribly wrong - the PC is unfairly blamed for failing a critical part of the quest, bringing bad luck to the tribe. They are exiled in the hope of expiating the bad luck. 

 

[Soccercalle]

A lot of good answers.

One reason that can lead to good stories is that the PCs were strongly anti-Lunar but the leaders of their clan wanted peace. The PCs disobeyed orders and had a fight with Lunars. The leaders decided that they had to go into exile (both as a punishment but also to save the clan from repercussions).

[soltakss]

On 8/19/2024 at 11:41 AM, dracopticon said:

I am starting to get frustrated here. My overall plan as a GM is that I want to run an adventure that can get the player characters exiled/ousted from their own settlement and clan, and therefore are forced to relocate. My idea is that one of them (and their family) have relatives living i Riskland/Dorastor, so they start their long travel to that place and hopefully a "better future".

My question is, is there an adventure existing where the PCs can be subjected to this, or could one devise reasons for it to happen?

I am in favour of exile to Dorastor!

What I did in Holiday Dorastor: Risklands was to give the choice of exile to Dorastor as part of the family history, so instead of dying they were exiled instead. 

However, if you are running RQG before the current timeline, anyone who has been a thorn in the Lunars' side can be exiled to Dorastor, as it gets rid of troublesome bandits and rebels. 

I gave penal servitude as a punishment in my last Gloranthan Campaign, so the Adventurers were exiled to the Big Rubble, then Sun County, for periods of time. That could be used in a scenario very easily. Adventurers could be given the choice of being declared Outlaws or being exiled to a faraway place, maybe to join relatives.

As for scenarios that have this, I can't think of any.

[dracopticon]

On 8/31/2024 at 10:05 PM, soltakss said:

I am in favour of exile to Dorastor!

What I did in Holiday Dorastor: Risklands was to give the choice of exile to Dorastor as part of the family history, so instead of dying they were exiled instead. 

However, if you are running RQG before the current timeline, anyone who has been a thorn in the Lunars' side can be exiled to Dorastor, as it gets rid of troublesome bandits and rebels. 

I gave penal servitude as a punishment in my last Gloranthan Campaign, so the Adventurers were exiled to the Big Rubble, then Sun County, for periods of time. That could be used in a scenario very easily. Adventurers could be given the choice of being declared Outlaws or being exiled to a faraway place, maybe to join relatives.

As for scenarios that have this, I can't think of any.

Thank you Soltakss and sorry for the late reply from me!

Yes these are good ways to get the PCs to the appropriate area. I unfortunately changed the starting adventure at the last minute, and ran with Defending Apple Lane. But if one of the presumably surviving characters gets elected to Thane (in my campaign a "thane-in-learning"), then it will hurt even more to lose that title when botching the Broken Tower ending, and giving away cows to the deity there. 🙂

Edited September 9 by dracopticon

[Alex]

On 8/22/2024 at 10:37 AM, dracopticon said:

I am also thinking of using (only for my group) the french made "Swenville" picture by Thomas Ray, remade for Oakton and the Varmandi clan (it has a huge tree on the right side, perfect for The Oak of Vengeance!).

It's a great map -- thanks, hadn't seen it before -- but as Jörg points out, an order of magnitude larger than Canon suggests.  But!  A great excuse for reusing comically oversized location map is the word "ruinous".  Just decide that the whole thing is a Type C Ruin (some old-school humour there) and is 90%+ uninhabited.  Why?  Maybe from former times of Varmandi glory.  Maybe from long before they came along -- could be an EWF or earlier still.

On 8/22/2024 at 10:37 AM, dracopticon said:

This also demands that I change the Varmandi into a bigger clan, and not quite as 'warmongery' as they are in the original take. What do you think? Can I use it? Ts it OK to change the Varmandi into a bigger clan?

"Bigger" is IMO something of very little wider significance even if there were a detailed surprise inspection from Chaosium HQ during one of your games, but for my tastes "less warmongery" loses something.  They're the poster boys for War Clan.  Or the object lesson in why not to be one, perhaps.  But you're running this game, not me!  Nor indeed Greg or Jeff.  Decisions get made by the people that show up!

[dracopticon]

4 hours ago, Alex said:

It's a great map -- thanks, hadn't seen it before -- but as Jörg points out, an order of magnitude larger than Canon suggests.  But!  A great excuse for reusing comically oversized location map is the word "ruinous".  Just decide that the whole thing is a Type C Ruin (some old-school humour there) and is 90%+ uninhabited.  Why?  Maybe from former times of Varmandi glory.  Maybe from long before they came along -- could be an EWF or earlier still.

"Bigger" is IMO something of very little wider significance even if there were a detailed surprise inspection from Chaosium HQ during one of your games, but for my tastes "less warmongery" loses something.  They're the poster boys for War Clan.  Or the object lesson in why not to be one, perhaps.  But you're running this game, not me!  Nor indeed Greg or Jeff.  Decisions get made by the people that show up!

Thanks for the reply! Yes, I have totally retreated from my earlier plans to change the Varmandi clan in any real way. But I still intend to make a map of Oakton, building on at least a part of Swenville, and most importantly with that fantastic tree. Why should Swenville have that, nope I am putting something else there in my version of Swenville so that I can use the tree and some smaller and changed parts of Swenville for my version of Oakton. We'll see how that goes.

[Alex]

On 8/21/2024 at 2:28 PM, dracopticon said:

Yes, good insights there. But I will start playing in 1625, so is the Lunar Empire really in charge since the Dragonrise and Kallyr's and Argrath's freedom wars, and can send people off on slavery? The player characters will come from the Varmandi clan.

The "default" start is right after the Dragonrise and subsequently battle, so if you're going with that that, then no but technically "in 1625", maybe.  But you're putting quite the tight clock on yourself if your plan is to stick to the official timeline, and get the outlawry done and dusted before Earth Season.  Using the Lunars has the advantage that it's much more plausible that they end up in Dorastor by this method.  Getting exiled from your clan isn't especially hard -- as has been pointed out, many a murderhobo PC would qualify many times over.  It's less like being found guilty of some Class A Felony beyond a reasonable doubt with meticulous standards of evidence, and more like getting into a family argument and losing badly.  It could be pretty rough justice if the clan leadership has reason -- however petty -- to dislike them.

Of course you'd have some recourse to your tribe in the normal course of events, and beyond that to move elsewhere in Sartar, or one of the other DP homelands.  If that's not the case you might need to add some additional lampshading if your players push back on the idea.

G-lore aside, I feel obliged to offer the unsolicited advice to get some sort of buy-in from your players for this sort of plan.  Done wrong, it's possible they might feel like they're being set up to fail and then railroaded.

[dracopticon]

6 hours ago, Alex said:

The "default" start is right after the Dragonrise and subsequently battle, so if you're going with that that, then no but technically "in 1625", maybe.  But you're putting quite the tight clock on yourself if your plan is to stick to the official timeline, and get the outlawry done and dusted before Earth Season.  Using the Lunars has the advantage that it's much more plausible that they end up in Dorastor by this method.  Getting exiled from your clan isn't especially hard -- as has been pointed out, many a murderhobo PC would qualify many times over.  It's less like being found guilty of some Class A Felony beyond a reasonable doubt with meticulous standards of evidence, and more like getting into a family argument and losing badly.  It could be pretty rough justice if the clan leadership has reason -- however petty -- to dislike them.

Of course you'd have some recourse to your tribe in the normal course of events, and beyond that to move elsewhere in Sartar, or one of the other DP homelands.  If that's not the case you might need to add some additional lampshading if your players push back on the idea.

G-lore aside, I feel obliged to offer the unsolicited advice to get some sort of buy-in from your players for this sort of plan.  Done wrong, it's possible they might feel like they're being set up to fail and then railroaded.

Thank you for this extensive advice! I am a Swede, so some of your words I have specifically look up. 🙂 Like "lampshading", I thought I had a reasonable grasp on English expressions, but I am being naive, that's for sure. We've already started IN Earth Season, and the starting date is Waterday, Movement Week, Earth Season 1625. The Apple Lane scenario has a lot of background which I've tied to one of the characters by relation as they came down to Apple Lane looking for wine reserves. But to me RQG feels like an avalanche, lorewise and ruleswise. The rules in the core book is spread out to say the least, so I am going to retreat to having the quickstart rules laying on my table instead. And I am not a speed reader or 'speed understander'. My favorite version of BRP rules is 1st/2nd edition Stormbringer. I have taken away the Hit Location rules, which is a total nightmare in mass combat (been there, done that), and have revised the HP calculation, made visible on my own character sheet, which I have uploaded to this site.

Anyway, I actually like railroading IF it contributes to the situation in a reasonable way, and the players don't seem to mind. And in the next adventure, The Broken Tower, the characters will have to sacrifice *all* the cattle just to get back home alive when the Stone Woman threatens them. This is a disaster and the reason they are ostracized and 'exeunted off stage' to (probably) Dorastor. They actually have relatives in both Dorastor and some living in Prax, so either it's the Dorastor campaign OR the Sandheart campaign. It's up to them. But getting to those places are campaigns all in themselves. So will they become parts of some other clan wherever they go.

 

[Alex]

8 hours ago, dracopticon said:

 I thought I had a reasonable grasp on English expressions, but I am being naive, that's for sure.

Ooops, sorry.  No, I was just unnecessarily "idiomatic" -- OK, obscure.  My bad!

8 hours ago, dracopticon said:

But to me RQG feels like an avalanche, lorewise and ruleswise. The rules in the core book is spread out to say the least, so I am going to retreat to having the quickstart rules laying on my table instead. And I am not a speed reader or 'speed understander'.

Not unique or crazy thoughts.  Or even unusual ones!  The editing in the CB isn't great, and the depth of lore is a notorious issue.  But a nice problem to have if you discipline yourself to use it, not to be used by it.  It's a resource to be dipped into as you desire, not a "this will all be on the test" curriculum you have to wearily study.  And change or ignore at will!

8 hours ago, dracopticon said:

Anyway, I actually like railroading IF it contributes to the situation in a reasonable way, and the players don't seem to mind. And in the next adventure, The Broken Tower, the characters will have to sacrifice *all* the cattle just to get back home alive when the Stone Woman threatens them. This is a disaster and the reason they are ostracized and 'exeunted off stage' to (probably) Dorastor. They actually have relatives in both Dorastor and some living in Prax, so either it's the Dorastor campaign OR the Sandheart campaign. It's up to them. But getting to those places are campaigns all in themselves. So will they become parts of some other clan wherever they go.

It's not railroading if there's player buy-in!  And if it's definitely not railroading if there's a choice.  People can feel better about two bad choices than one perfectly good not-a-choice-at-all.  Or if it's explicitly or implicitly part of the setup and premise.

Edited September 12 by Alex

[dracopticon]

On 9/12/2024 at 6:38 PM, Alex said:

Ooops, sorry.  No, I was just unnecessarily "idiomatic" -- OK, obscure.  My bad!

Not unique or crazy thoughts.  Or even unusual ones!  The editing in the CB isn't great, and the depth of lore is a notorious issue.  But a nice problem to have if you discipline yourself to use it, not to be used by it.  It's a resource to be dipped into as you desire, not a "this will all be on the test" curriculum you have to wearily study.  And change or ignore at will!

It's not railroading if there's player buy-in!  And if it's definitely not railroading if there's a choice.  People can feel better about two bad choices than one perfectly good not-a-choice-at-all.  Or if it's explicitly or implicitly part of the setup and premise.

Thank you for the reply, and sorry for the late answer. I have been preparing for a friends 60th birthday, mine was in february this year. "Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana", like Groucho said. No, not something bad you did at all, I like obscure expressions. I just feel the need to understand them. 

I love the depth of lore and have been diving into Greg's fantasies since the mid-eighties. I also bought his two huge tomes "The Guide to Glorantha 1 and 2". Absolutely  fantastic books with that kind of immersive fantasy, especially the small things like having a city called Qaphqa where they have strangely recognizable customs to say the least. 🙂

Haha! Yes it's really like that, you have to have small repetitive tests about the background, and especially what the players remember about the lore from last session. It is the same old problem with all games you run as a GM, you always know more than the players and they are almost never that much into the myth. At least not here. It's a shame that most people, even here in Scandinavia where a lot of good RPGs are made, doesn't know a great deal about Glorantha. The bright exception to this is Finland, where quite a few gamers have been very supportive of his RPG and world. It is also in the pipes with a Swedish version of RQG, which is nice - if it gets finished. *fingers crossed* I am an avid collector of all things Chaosium and have been since the eighties.

Yes! Choice is paramount. I am really divided though, just HOW they are going to get there without dying on the way. I mean to the east we have Telmori lands and in the west, Dorastor in itself is killing ground de luxe. But the Riskland area is certainly interesting. I have not bought more than Phipp's "Secrets of Dorastor" and own the old books on the area made by AH. We'll see how it goes and what choices they make. 

 

Edited September 14 by dracopticon

[soltakss]

15 minutes ago, dracopticon said:

Yes! Choice is paramount. I am really divided though, just HOW they are going to get there without dying on the way. I mean to the east we have Telmori lands and in the west, Dorastor in itself is killing ground de luxe. But the Riskland area is certainly interesting. I have not bought more than Phipp's "Secrets of Dorastor" and own the old books on the area made by AH. We'll see how it goes and what choices they make. 

Have a look at Holiday Dorastor: Risklands, as that is an introductory area for Dorastor with some suggestions as how Adventurers can be exiled to Dorastor.

[dracopticon]

10 hours ago, soltakss said:

Have a look at Holiday Dorastor: Risklands, as that is an introductory area for Dorastor with some suggestions as how Adventurers can be exiled to Dorastor.

Yep that is an interesting campaign. And thanks for the tip. But there are such a lot of further supplements made for that campaign, that it feels overwhelming both money wise and the amount of material. 

[soltakss]

1 hour ago, dracopticon said:

Yep that is an interesting campaign. And thanks for the tip. But there are such a lot of further supplements made for that campaign, that it feels overwhelming both money wise and the amount of material. 

The beauty of the Holiday Dorastor series is that you can start small and then expand. With Risklands and Secrets of Dorastor you can run a reasonable campaign. As the Adventurers get more experienced they can open up one section at a time, supplement by supplement. 

There is no need to get everything at once.

[Alex]

12 hours ago, dracopticon said:

Thank you for the reply, and sorry for the late answer. I have been preparing for a friends 60th birthday, mine was in february this year. "Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana", like Groucho said. No, not something bad you did at all, I like obscure expressions. I just feel the need to understand them. 

We're not on the clock here, no problems, just as long as we're able to communicate successfully eventually!

12 hours ago, dracopticon said:

Yes! Choice is paramount.

Or at least everyone being on the same page when it comes to which part are the premise/flashback/this is all part of the setup, gang, bit.

12 hours ago, dracopticon said:

I am really divided though, just HOW they are going to get there without dying on the way. I mean to the east we have Telmori lands and in the west, Dorastor in itself is killing ground de luxe.

I'd suggest not sweating that more than seems fun and engaging for all concerned.  Prax is certainly a rich, fertile and traditional source of wandering mayhem, so add as much of that as you like!  Dying on the way is all part of the "fun" potentially.  But if they go north per the central forecast -- the fools! -- you could justifiably yadda-yadda that quite a bit.  You're more likely to get 'civilised' encounters, clustering around the recurrent themes of 'making sure they're not murderhobos' and 'making sure they're not open Orlanth worshippers and proselytes", what's worse.  There's likely not a huge payoff in repeating those a huge amount -- unless they really are brigands and missionaries, and can't shut up about it.  The Lunars' and the PCs' interests fundamentally actually align here -- get the hillfolk heretics will as little muss and fuss to the chaos-infested wilderness -- and you're not duty-bound to make it harder than it need be.

In fact you could go some ways to make that explicit up front.  "if you go to the Risklands, you can get letters of safe passage from Tarsh all the way -- until you get to Dorastor.  Or there's Pavis, where you've already missed most of the fun, and en route the Telmori, your ancient bloodsworn enemies, who're frighteningly good wilderness trackers, will murder you in your sleep en route.  Totally free choice, of course!"

[dracopticon]

9 hours ago, Alex said:

We're not on the clock here, no problems, just as long as we're able to communicate successfully eventually!

Or at least everyone being on the same page when it comes to which part are the premise/flashback/this is all part of the setup, gang, bit.

I'd suggest not sweating that more than seems fun and engaging for all concerned.  Prax is certainly a rich, fertile and traditional source of wandering mayhem, so add as much of that as you like!  Dying on the way is all part of the "fun" potentially.  But if they go north per the central forecast -- the fools! -- you could justifiably yadda-yadda that quite a bit.  You're more likely to get 'civilised' encounters, clustering around the recurrent themes of 'making sure they're not murderhobos' and 'making sure they're not open Orlanth worshippers and proselytes", what's worse.  There's likely not a huge payoff in repeating those a huge amount -- unless they really are brigands and missionaries, and can't shut up about it.  The Lunars' and the PCs' interests fundamentally actually align here -- get the hillfolk heretics will as little muss and fuss to the chaos-infested wilderness -- and you're not duty-bound to make it harder than it need be.

In fact you could go some ways to make that explicit up front.  "if you go to the Risklands, you can get letters of safe passage from Tarsh all the way -- until you get to Dorastor.  Or there's Pavis, where you've already missed most of the fun, and en route the Telmori, your ancient bloodsworn enemies, who're frighteningly good wilderness trackers, will murder you in your sleep en route.  Totally free choice, of course!"

Good advice as usual. Thank you!
I should tell my very first idea, though. Usually, I do not at all like crossovers, but there is one type I was very keen on trying for an idea that was really out there. I was thinking that the characters should be from our modern world, and somehow, somewhere they have gotten wind of the fact that there's a real and actual gate to another world, found in the home of some modern, and immensely wealthy sorceror here on Earth.

This gate leads, of course to, Glorantha with the added benefit that the sorceror had been using modern technology to map out most of the Genertela continent with either a high tech satellite or some kind of powerful drone. Therefore, when crossing over into Glorantha, they had their hands on some of the maps from the Argan Argar atlas, and they could use a portable, smaller and easily disguisable drone powered by sunlight to continue to take pictures of the landscape and other kinds of places. I had thought of beginning the campaign with them coming to the Borderlands and venturing on from there. But, in the end I realized it would probably take a lot of job to make this happen, so decided against it. Maybe someday. I have also, already tried this approach with another group in the Planescape setting for AD&D 2nd ed, and we had a blast with it, but without the satellite/drone idea. They ended up in Baator, the Nine Hells, but managed to get out, exiting on the inside of the Temple of Elemental Evil. 🙂

Edited Sunday at 08:40 AM by dracopticon

[dracopticon]

10 hours ago, soltakss said:

The beauty of the Holiday Dorastor series is that you can start small and then expand. With Risklands and Secrets of Dorastor you can run a reasonable campaign. As the Adventurers get more experienced they can open up one section at a time, supplement by supplement. 

There is no need to get everything at once.

That is true, but I think I have enough with the original two Dorastor campaign supplements by AH and the Phipp extra material.