Making experience checks

[Russ Massey]

One new dispute came up recently about the correct way to do this.

A player has suggested that on the characyer sheet you write the basic skill, and only add in the skill modifier to it when you are making a roll. So when rolling for skills to go up, you only need to roll above the base skill (adding the skill modifier to that die roll), and not above the total skill (base + mod), which is the way I've always done it.

e.g If you have a broadsword of 80 aand a manipulation bonus of +10, I have always written the skill as 90 on the sheet (means you don't have to make an addition before rolling) and assumed that to pass an experience check I would need to roll 91 after adding +10 for the modifier. If you only have to roll above base skill it would be a roll of 81 needed, which is a significant difference as skills get to higher levels. The rules are not totally clear on this, but it would be contrary to how I've played for 45 years. Have I been doing it wrong? Does everyone write their skills on the character sheet without adding the modifier?

[Richard S.]

"An individual adventurer's skills category modifiers may adjust [base chance], so that even at the beginnings of their careers different adventurers have different skill ratings. Any percentiles of the skill learned through previous experience or training are added to the base chance." RQG page 141

"If the roll, as modified by the appropriate skills category modifier, is higher than the adventurer's current skill ability, the adventurer improves their rating in that skill." RQG page 415.

Current skill ability refers to base chance + experience (inc. occupation, cult, etc.) + category modifier. The value on the sheet should only be modified by situational modifiers like augments or difficulty levels. However, because the category modifier is also added to the experience roll you functionally are rolling against the rating as if it didn't have a category modifier applied.

For example, a Sartarite Orlanthi warrior with a DEX of 16 could have a Broadsword skill of 10 (base chance) + 5 (manipulation bonus) + 15 (Sartar culture) + 25 (warrior unit weapon) + 10 (Orlanth Adventurous) + 25 (personal bonus) = 90%. To improve it by experience, they would have to roll a 91 or above on 1D100 + 5 (manipulation bonus).

[Jens]

1 hour ago, Russ Massey said:

Have I been doing it wrong?

Sorry to say, but you’ve been doing experience rolls wrong- you either subtract the modifier from the skill before rolling, or add the modifier to the result after rolling depending on edition or which math is simpler for you.

As for how to record it on your sheet, I’ve gone both ways; for paper sheets I tend to not include the bonus, since it can change over time (stat training, magic, etc.). Electronic sheets do the math for you, so on those I include it in the final skill. 

[French Desperate WindChild]

I have an issue with one of yout word so I will clarify it (but my english is poor, that's not you 😛 )

1 hour ago, Russ Massey said:

you write the basic skill,

I would prefer the skill without category modifier : basic skill may be understood as the start (ex scan 25; even if at the end of the day the pc has scan 85)

from an experience check perspective I consider easier to compare the roll with the skill without category modifier because you just compare the roll with the number you have.

I mean it is easier to compare skill = 80 versus roll = 78 than skill = 90 versus 78 +10 (1 more operation). And when you know you are at the 100 limit, you don't have to compare with the skill just roll + modifier against 100

Another point would be to "save" the wear of the sheet when category modifier change. That's was really true when category modifier get +1 when a characterstic get +1 in previous edition (when POW changes every month, your paper is quickly a ruin ^^ ) But now, with the bonus by "range" of charactic that less true

 

However the big "issue" of optimization is more during the play when you roll to determine the success of an action because here it is not only roll versus skill but versus 5%, 20% and 100%-(100%-skill)*5% (not sure the exact formula, just for the exemple).

So during the play you optimize your brain time if you have directly the score including the category modifier.

That's why, when I play with excel sheet, I have directy both values, without the category and with the category.

So I think, I would answer your player,

 

Quote

do what you want, both are interesting, the choice is between

1) "slow" the resolution of few experience checks at the end of the scenario

2) "slow" the resolution of every roll during the play,

 

I would prefer  2) because we have then more suspense to know the reward of the game and we keep fluent the pleasure of the game. But if you feel that's you are able to calculate fast enough with 1), that's fine

 

 

[soltakss]

We include the skill modifier on the final skill in the character sheet, as it saves adding it when we roll the skill.

When rolling for experience, we roll 1D100 and add the modifier, if it is over the skill, or over 100 if the skill is over 100, then the roll succeeds and we add 1DE6 to the skill.

[PhilHibbs]

4 hours ago, Russ Massey said:

Have I been doing it wrong? Does everyone write their skills on the character sheet without adding the modifier?

I used to do this, and one of the players in my group does it. But it isn't the default according to the rules, there's no such thing as a "basic skill" value without modifier in the rules. If you find it easier, then go for it, but some people might get confused picking up your sheet.

Edited Sunday at 10:44 AM by PhilHibbs

[jajagappa]

6 hours ago, Russ Massey said:

A player has suggested that on the characyer sheet you write the basic skill, and only add in the skill modifier to it when you are making a roll.

That's the way I've always done it (that's why there's a space on the sheet for the skill modifier!). If the modifier change, you don't have to change all associated skills.

 

[Kloster]

7 hours ago, Russ Massey said:

One new dispute came up recently about the correct way to do this.

A player has suggested that on the characyer sheet you write the basic skill, and only add in the skill modifier to it when you are making a roll. So when rolling for skills to go up, you only need to roll above the base skill (adding the skill modifier to that die roll), and not above the total skill (base + mod), which is the way I've always done it.

e.g If you have a broadsword of 80 aand a manipulation bonus of +10, I have always written the skill as 90 on the sheet (means you don't have to make an addition before rolling) and assumed that to pass an experience check I would need to roll 91 after adding +10 for the modifier. If you only have to roll above base skill it would be a roll of 81 needed, which is a significant difference as skills get to higher levels. The rules are not totally clear on this, but it would be contrary to how I've played for 45 years. Have I been doing it wrong? Does everyone write their skills on the character sheet without adding the modifier?

You can do as you want, but writing the skill roll not counting category modifier and adding it on the fly is what I always did with RQ3. This was done to avoid recalculing every skill in the category every time a characteristic changes. But this has nothing to do with rules. You do as you want. The only rule is that your GM has to be aware of how to read your sheet.

[Akhôrahil]

On 10/13/2024 at 7:58 AM, Russ Massey said:

e.g If you have a broadsword of 80 aand a manipulation bonus of +10, I have always written the skill as 90 on the sheet (means you don't have to make an addition before rolling) and assumed that to pass an experience check I would need to roll 91 after adding +10 for the modifier.

This is the correct way.