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The Death of Warhammer RPG's


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I was utterly shocked to hear that Black Industries is ceasing production of RPG's as of September 2008.

I simply cannot believe it. Especially after the highly successful sale of their new Warhammer 40,000: Dark Heresy RPG.

Is anyone else as distraught as I am about this?

I'm at a loss for words. The past couple weeks have really sucked for me, and now this. I didn't even know that the first book was out, I thought that it was coming out at the beginning of March. I was planning on buying each book for the game as they came out. That's something I just don't do anymore.

I've sunk more money than I care to think about into stuff from Games Workshop over the past 20 years or so. Shoot, to make it on topic, the first item I bought of theirs was Call of Cthulhu 3rd Ed. I've been a huge 40k fan since the 1st Ed. book. A couple years ago I even spent my Sabbatical building and painting a Tau Army (and dealing with a newborn). Like I said, I've spent more on their miniatures than I want to think about over the years, yet besides Warhammer 40k they've either basically, or totally dropped support for my favorite wargames.

This is enough to make me seriously consider dropping my White Dwarf subscription (not sure why I'm wasting money on it as all it is anymore is a catalog), and selling off my Games Workshop wargaming stuff. I don't currently have time to play, but put everything safely in storage to wait till the kids get old enough to play if they want, or I once again have the time (not the first time I've taken a few years off from 40k). If I was to sell all of it off, I'd have regain a lot of storage space, and should be able to raise the money for some gear I want for another hobby. Last I checked, I have a lot of stuff that goes for decent prices on eBay, including most, if not all of the miniatures for their first aborted attempt at a WH40K RPG from around '92.

The only thing that might keep me from going out and selling off everything is the fear that in a few years I'll jump back in. I'd hate to jump back in and have to start from scratch again. Still I've been bitten a few too many times by GW, and their prices are now worse than outrageous. Less than 20 years ago you could buy a box or two of plastic mini's for $30 a box and play, now you're looking at several hundred for a playable army.

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What three are those?

Im not too interested in the adventures (other then the Lure of the Lich Lord and Barony of the Damned).

Ah... the three I don't want are: Renegade Crowns, Lure of the Liche Lord, and Karak Azgal.

I'm just not that interested... I mean, if I had more money I would buy them, but I am not, by any means, rich. So those three didn't make the cut.

"Men of broader intellect know that there is no sharp distinction betwixt the real and the unreal..."

- H.P. Lovecraft

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Ah... the three I don't want are: Renegade Crowns, Lure of the Liche Lord, and Karak Azgal.

I'm just not that interested... I mean, if I had more money I would buy them, but I am not, by any means, rich. So those three didn't make the cut.

I personally think Renegade Crowns is one of the better books. Havent got Karak Azgal yet, and have so far enjoyed reading LotLL

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I know this the not a WHRP or 40KRP forum, but it was brought up here by someone else.

So I would like to ask any of those of you who are fans of this game (games) to register on the forums of Black Industries and state your displeasure in this action.

Furthermore I invite you all to join the Green Ronin forum to encourage them to attempt to pick up the license for these settings.

Thank you.

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Ah... the three I don't want are: Renegade Crowns, Lure of the Liche Lord, and Karak Azgal.

I'm just not that interested... I mean, if I had more money I would buy them, but I am not, by any means, rich. So those three didn't make the cut.

I've done similar but left out Paths of the Damned trilogy, Talabhein, horned rat.

Can you believe that Forges of Nuln is sold out in UK. The other two are readily available, so the print run must have been smaller to account for its rarity.

Likes to sneak around

115/420

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I got Paths of the Damned mostly to help me get out of the D&Dist idea of gaming and to help me get a grip on the setting in play.

I don't regret it. Not because the adventure is great... it's actually kind of average... if I want great I have a beautiful copy of Masks of Nyarlathotep :D

No... I don't regret it because my players are amazing. My wife is playing a halfling thief and she is probably the best player I've ever gotten to game with. It could be because we have no compunctions against acting like complete dorks, which is very, very helpful in a gaming setting.

I actually encourage my players to invent menial NPC's to interact with and I completely play along. It usually ends up not being so menial, as my wife's character's rant on the existence of flying squirrels (which included the presentation of etchings) at The Scholars ended up with her and her comrades being sponsored and quartered to further educate an interested, erudite noble.

Yay for free housing.

It took us a whole night to get through three pages of the adventure. Which is fantastic, considering it wasn't because of players cracking wise or wasting time with ridiculous plans. It was because they were really playing their characters. I've never been happier as a GM.

"Men of broader intellect know that there is no sharp distinction betwixt the real and the unreal..."

- H.P. Lovecraft

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I've done similar but left out Paths of the Damned trilogy, Talabhein, horned rat.

I would highly recommend Children of the Horned Rat. Its a shame they didnt do similar source books for teh Greenskins and Elves. I was also hoping to finally see a Lands of Men book that would finally add some real info on Estalia, Tilea and Araby. At least we got Kislev, the Border Princes and Bretonia.

An Orc book would have been so grand though. But at least there is the bestiary which covers enough of the races from the table top game to give you that variety in play. I only hope that they decide to expand up on the Disciples of the Dark Gods for 40KRP and add Eldar, Tau, Orks, The Millionaire and His Wife.

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I would highly recommend Children of the Horned Rat. Its a shame they didnt do similar source books for teh Greenskins and Elves. I was also hoping to finally see a Lands of Men book that would finally add some real info on Estalia, Tilea and Araby. At least we got Kislev, the Border Princes and Bretonia.

An Orc book would have been so grand though. But at least there is the bestiary which covers enough of the races from the table top game to give you that variety in play. I only hope that they decide to expand up on the Disciples of the Dark Gods for 40KRP and add Eldar, Tau, Orks, The Millionaire and His Wife.

And now I have the song in my head. Thanks for that. :P

"Men of broader intellect know that there is no sharp distinction betwixt the real and the unreal..."

- H.P. Lovecraft

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I'm a huge dork and spent a truck-ton of cash.

Now I am the owner of every Warhammer FRP book in print.

Oddly, this makes me hope beyond hope that they really are dead... I will feel very cheated that I dropped this wad of cash if it isn't.

"Men of broader intellect know that there is no sharp distinction betwixt the real and the unreal..."

- H.P. Lovecraft

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I'm a huge dork and spent a truck-ton of cash.

Now I am the owner of every Warhammer FRP book in print.

Oddly, this makes me hope beyond hope that they really are dead... I will feel very cheated that I dropped this wad of cash if it isn't.

Did you preorder A Thousand Thrones?

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I broke down and bought a copy off Amazon for half price... I figure it will make something of a reference for converting stuff into BRP terms at some point... and I've been waiting for such a book since the old Rogue Trader days.

Mostly hoping for more idea on Imperial life that doesn't revolve around enormous battles...

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To answer the OPs question: This doesn't affect me one whit. I never liked GW's stuff and stopped getting White Dwarf the moment it became a house organ. My condolences to those that feel this more keenly than I.

What this does do is remind me of how often I have been affected by Chaosium cancelling projects or not supporting games. Ringworld, Elfquest, Questworld and Superworld all got published and then languished with very little support. Eventually the licensed material got tied up or ended. This raises the question for me as to what Chaosium has learned about making a line profitable enough to keep. Anyone have any thoughts on what it takes either in general or specifically for Chaosium?

Chaosium has a line of fiction that they were making money on. Anybody know if that is going to affect how it devotes itself to supporting our RPG hobby?

And yes I thought it germane to connect the Dark Heresy travesty to Chaosium’s track record because this is after all BRPCentral even if this is the Gamers Cavern Forum. If that is too wildly inappropriate we can move the question elsewhere.

__________________

Joseph Paul

"Nothing partys like a rental" explains the enduring popularity of prostitution.:eek:

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Not inappropriate at all.

I think it's especially a good connection to make considering how lucrative making and selling RPG's is at this point. A lot of time and effort goes into development, where either you're paying people to focus on the game, you're spending a lot of time just developing the system without a paycheck coming in, or you're working at another job and developing when you have a moment to spare. Regardless, at the end, the margin of profit is small.

The more books you put out, the more profit you can make, but the more time you have to dedicate to it. Hiring a team minimizes the time between releases of support material, but increases the cost. Doing it yourself kills interest in the game due to the time it takes to finish something (whether you're working or not) and the payoff drops off with every release.

It's an ugly market, but only when one looks at it as a market. Some people just love the game. They develop products because it's what they love to do. This is why the so-called "indie" RPG market is receiving a lot of attention these days. By and large, independently developed and published RPG's are made by people who love the hobby.

Big games like Dungeons & Dragons make all their profit on the integrated peripheral merchandise. Miniatures usable as their own game and usable in the RPG were a brilliant marketing stroke. Development of a system that allows you to manipulate effects in multiple ways was also brilliant from a marketing angle. But when everything's said and done, you end up with a creature that is not an RPG, but a tactical wargame with overtures at being an RPG. If Games Workshop had integrated their miniatures game into the RPG more directly to supplement their main line rather than contend with it, the RPG would have probably flourished... but at what cost?

I suppose I can be happy with what I have of Black Industries (which at this point is every book thus far). It's still sad to see something wrought with the passion characteristic of games of old disappear.

"Men of broader intellect know that there is no sharp distinction betwixt the real and the unreal..."

- H.P. Lovecraft

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Ok, some help here:

What are the RPG titles for 40K currently?

1. Dark Heresy (Core book)

2. GM Pack (GM screen and mini-booklet supplement)

Anything else currently?

I know there is stuff slated to come out in March. Something like another 2-3 titles? And then that's it- nothing else for the RPG side of 40K.

BRP Ze 32/420

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Ok, some help here:

What are the RPG titles for 40K currently?

1. Dark Heresy (Core book)

2. GM Pack (GM screen and mini-booklet supplement)

Anything else currently?

I know there is stuff slated to come out in March. Something like another 2-3 titles? And then that's it- nothing else for the RPG side of 40K.

2 adventures online at blackindustries that are free. A free PDF on vehicles and mounts at the same site as well as a bunch of entries on the Calixis Sector of space.

I think march is the Inquisitors handbook, then the armoury in the summer and September is the Disciples of the Dark Gods book.

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Well, I was trying to be cute. I guess it didn't come off that well. :ohwell:

Congratulations on getting your copy. I hear that some people that pre-ordered with Amazon were have difficulties.

Let us know your impressions once you get a chance to thumb through it. :)

BRP Ze 32/420

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(Just got 40KRP today, and just found out I got all night guard duty).

Do they mind if you read on duty? I was lucky when I was in the Navy and typically was able to read while on watch. On one watch I stood, I was even able to have my laptop(s) with me.

My copy has shipped. I had to go with Barnes & Noble as oddly enough Amazon listed it as being out (they now say they have copies). It looks like I'll have it on Thursday. I had a chance to look through a copy over the weekend, and am very impressed with what I saw.

I'm still seriously mad at Games Workshop over canceling the game, but I'm another person that has been waiting for this book since the Rogue Trader days. So I bought it, even though I'm threatening to sell of all my Warhammer and Warhammer 40k stuff.

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Guarding the combat camera and motorpool barracks in Germany doesnt seem to be all the crucial. They provide us with a TV/DVD player and the message of "stay awake, answer the phone and check the buildings every few hours, See you in the morining" so yeah, we can read.

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