Will Roll

[LivingTriskele]

I know this is probably a newbie question (it's been a long time since I've actually run a BRP game...). Is there a roll akin to a Will roll? Something to determine a PC's ability to resist temptation for example. I could have sworn there was, but after a quick look at the Big Golden Book, did not see it...

[seneschal]

I'd say it'd be a POW (or Luck) roll, since that is the closest to a willpower stat BRP has. You might also use an INT (Idea) roll.

[Atgxtg]

Yeah, the Luck roll. Yes, I know that isn't what you think of with the Luck roll, but Will is part of the POW attribute.

But, for what you want, you might be more interested in the personality traits (page 294).

[LivingTriskele]

Thanks, I was originally thinking POW x5 as well.

Now I'm thinking the PC's POW vs the POW of the temptation on the Resistance Table. I was considering power points vs the POW of the temptation on the Resistance Table (because power points fluctuate, just as a PC's resolve might), but it doesn't really make sense to me that a spell-caster's willpower would suffer from casting spells...

[Agentorange]

Triskele,

I know this is completely off topic.....but whatever happened to The Merchants Scale ? I was rather looking forward to it....

Back on topic, I'd agree with the other suggestions, either a POW or INT roll or maybe a trait roll if you use them .

[LivingTriskele]

Hey Agentorange,

I know it's been a while. Dustin gave me the go-ahead to complete another monograph first-- the campaign setting in which the drama of The Merchant's Scale takes place. But just an FYI, a short adventure from The Merchant's Scale was recently published in the adventure compilation A Nation Ransomed. The adventure is called The Skull of the Sleepers.

Chaosium has given me the permission to post the character generation chapter for my setting for free on BRP Central. The working title for the setting is called The Last Echoes of Paradise. I haven't mentioned it, because I'm somewhat ashamed of how much time writing my monographs is taking me. It's the price I pay for being a single father with two young children and a demanding job...

[LivingTriskele]

I forgot to thank you for asking, though! I appreciate it more than I can say. It helps me to justify finishing it.

[seneschal]

Hey Agentorange,

Chaosium has given me the permission to post the character generation chapter for my setting for free on BRP Central. The working title for the setting is called The Last Echoes of Paradise. I haven't mentioned it, because I'm somewhat ashamed of how much time writing my monographs is taking me. It's the price I pay for being a single father with two young children and a demanding job...

Don't be ashamed. Caring for a family is very demanding. You have to squeeze in writing time whenever you can.

[LivingTriskele]

It's so true. I spend most of my lunch breaks in my car, tapping away at my laptop. I see a light the the end of the tunnel though.

[soltakss]

I know this is probably a newbie question (it's been a long time since I've actually run a BRP game...). Is there a roll akin to a Will roll? Something to determine a PC's ability to resist temptation for example. I could have sworn there was, but after a quick look at the Big Golden Book, did not see it...

Merrie England can use the Piety skill for exactly that - to resist temptation and other evils. However, that wouldn't suit a lot of other settings.

BRP does not have such a roll in its core rules. I'd have a Willpower skill, perhaps increased by experience or training, perhaps fixed. It wouldn't be a normal skill, as the player should decide whether the PC is weak-willed or strong-willed.

[Layec]

I never liked that POW was a catchall for willpower and magical aptitude, not to mention luck, connection to divinity, etc. When I adopted BRP and decided to GM for it, I made Will a stat, with Will x 5 = Courage.

[Gollum]

I never liked that POW was a catchall for willpower and magical aptitude, not to mention luck, connection to divinity, etc. When I adopted BRP and decided to GM for it, I made Will a stat, with Will x 5 = Courage.

It's quite funny to see how we can have different points of view about will. I don't really disagree with you, here, because I perfectly understand what you mean... But I still like how BRP handle that.

In my humble opinion, there is not only what kind of will, but several ones.

One of them could be named "Reason". The character succeeds to reason with himself, finding good arguments to avoid giving in to temptation. "No, I must absolutely not following this very appealing appealing woman... She is a foe... She certainly wants to lead me right in a trap..." In this case, I would use Intelligence as will.

The other one is not reason but pure mind power. There is no argument anmore, just a psychic effort to avoid giving in. "No, I won't eat this delicious piece of cake. I won't. I am able to not doing it..." In this other case, I use Power.

This is exactly how I understand Power. The mental strength which gives the ability to control yourself and to do what you really want to do, no matter what happens, no matter temptation, no matter arguments. And this is why Power also determine Luck. More you can control yourself (your emotions and your actions), more you can control your destiny. Good luck and bad luck are just name, things that occurs to people who are not determined enough to make up one's mind and, so, who let the chance take the decision for them... When you really want something, it happens!

Powerful wizards are those who control themselves and their emotions so much than they can impose their will to the world and modify it with magic.

But, as I said it above, it is just a point of view. Certainly poetic and a bit fantastic too... It just does correspond to what a lot of very different stories say.

"No, don't try, Luke. Do or do not. There is no try."

'They did it because they didn't know that it was impossible."

"If you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mulberry tree, 'Be uprooted and planted in the sea,' and it will obey you."

And so on...

[MatteoN]

Hi, I'm new to the forum.

It's quite funny to see how we can have different points of view about will.

I agree!

In my humble opinion, there is not only what kind of will, but several ones.

One of them could be named "Reason". The character succeeds to reason with himself, finding good arguments to avoid giving in to temptation. "No, I must absolutely not following this very appealing appealing woman... She is a foe... She certainly wants to lead me right in a trap..." In this case, I would use Intelligence as will.

The other one is not reason but pure mind power. There is no argument anmore, just a psychic effort to avoid giving in. "No, I won't eat this delicious piece of cake. I won't. I am able to not doing it..." In this other case, I use Power.

I don't think I see a difference between the two cases: the second character declines the offer of a piece of cake because he has a reason (maybe he's on a diet, or he's diabetic), just like the first character (his reason is that the woman might be an enemy). In both cases you could distinguish the reason the character has to do or to omit to do something, from the strength of the drive (the desire to lose weight, to preserve his own health etc.) that might enable him to act rationally. So one could either entirely do without a will stat, and state that if the character realizes that doing something is irrational, he automatically avoids doing it, unless the player decides otherwise; or one could always distinguish between the character's ability to reason about his actions (Idea roll) and his ability to actually do what is better for him (Luck/Will roll).

All of the above very much IMHO!

[Gollum]

Hi, I'm new to the forum.

Hi! Welcome on board. You will soon discover - as I did it several months ago - that people are great here. They give very good hints or, when you don't necessarily agree with them, good arguments that open your mind to other points of view...

I don't think I see a difference between the two cases: the second character declines the offer of a piece of cake because he has a reason (maybe he's on a diet, or he's diabetic), just like the first character (his reason is that the woman might be an enemy).

Yes. My examples weren't good enough.

What I wanted to mean is that, sometimes, the character has got strong logical arguments to resist temptation. Some other times he doesn't.

Let's take the example of the piece of cake. A character may avoid eating it because he is diabetic. In this case, knowing what will happen if he gives in the temptation is something that really helps him to resist. And more he is bright, more he will now the possible consequences of eating a cake... Now, he can have to resist just because his mother told him not to eat between lunches... The logical reason is less important than the pure will here. After all, she won't necessarily know...

In both cases you could distinguish the reason the character has to do or to omit to do something, from the strength of the drive (the desire to lose weight, to preserve his own health etc.) that might enable him to act rationally. So one could either entirely do without a will stat, and state that if the character realizes that doing something is irrational, he automatically avoids doing it, unless the player decides otherwise;

In my humble opinion, this is not always as automatic than that... Sometimes, the player character doesn't realize the logical arguments. For the appealing woman, for instance, the player can have missed some logical links which can make him understand that she is a foe... Now, if his character is supposed to be very clever, he probably wouldn't have missed these links. The idea roll is then required...

or one could always distinguish between the character's ability to reason about his actions (Idea roll) and his ability to actually do what is better for him (Luck/Will roll).

This is exactly what I wanted to mean. The difference between reason (I don't do that because it will lead me right into a lot of problems) and pure Will (someone told me not to do it, or it's not a good/honorable behavior, so I won't).

Edited November 18, 2012 by Gollum

[seneschal]

And in noir movies and fiction (and the story of Sampson) the guy often goes after the alluring woman despite the fact that he knows, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that she's a foe. He failed his Will roll and did what he knew to be foolish, wrong, dangerous, etc.

[Gollum]

And in noir movies and fiction (and the story of Sampson) the guy often goes after the alluring woman despite the fact that he knows, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that she's a foe. He failed his Will roll and did what he knew to be foolish, wrong, dangerous, etc.

Perfectly right... And that calls into question what I wrote above...

Actually, it is not really Idea roll or Will roll. It can be missed will roll despite of a successful Idea roll...

So, I thought to this solution:

A good reason to avoid giving in the temptation should be just a bonus to the will roll. And when this good reason is not obvious, an idea roll could be made to determine whether the character gets it.

[MatteoN]

This is exactly what I wanted to mean. The difference between reason (I don't do that because it will lead me right into a lot of problems) and pure Will (someone told me not to do it, or it's not a good/honorable behavior, so I won't).

A good reason to avoid giving in the temptation should be just a bonus to the will roll. And when this good reason is not obvious, an idea roll could be made to determine whether the character gets it.

I believe this would be an excellent solution!

[1d8+DB]

You could also I suppose use a SAN roll. A failed roll means, against all rational arguments, you follow her up to her apartment, eat the cake, have a romantic relationship with your biographer, etc. The psychological argument being you lost a struggle with self-destructive impulses.

[Link6746]

Could make a trait called Willpower with a % equal to (POW+INT/2)*5.

Or just use the Idea Roll, which is much simpler.