Runequest 6- not using hit locations

[tgcb]

Anyone have any experience using the "total hit points" method as opposed to the default "hit locations" method with Runequest 6?

Can you give your opinion of how it played vs the default?

thanks!

[tzunder]

Works fine. OpenQuest/Renaissance/Stormbringer/CoC/AoS and (I think) Magic World all use it.

[fmitchell]

Ward Location (free combat action) and Choose Location (combat special effect) go away. Otherwise the combat rules don't change, as far as I can tell.

[lawrence.whitaker]

Choose Location as a Special Effect becomes a bit pointless, and you'll need to restructure the wound thresholds, descriptions and effects.

In reality, you'd need to do a lot more work than first appears.

[Mankcam]

It ain't RuneQuest without Hit Locations !!!

[soltakss]

It ain't RuneQuest without Hit Locations !!!

I agree!

But, if you do go along the no hit locations route then the game plays a lot like the old Stormbinger/Elric games, which would suits Magic World, so I'd use Magic World rather than RQ6.

[jp42]

Anyone have any experience using the "total hit points" method as opposed to the default "hit locations" method with Runequest 6?

Just for my own edification - can I ask why you'd do this?

[tgcb]

Just for my own edification - can I ask why you'd do this?

Well, say I like Runequest 6 except for the "hit locations"....I might want to play Runequest 6 without the "hit locations", unless it breaks a bunch of other things in the game to not make it worth it.

In any case, I own both Runequest 6 and Magic World ...so I wouldn't be "saving money" by picking one over the other. And I like what I'm reading in Magic World a lot so perhaps this discussion is not needed anyway.

[Mankcam]

I think in many ways RQ6 has Hit Locations as a defining aspect of its mechanics, and personally I'ld advise against tinkering with it. Much more than the BRP/RQ3 build. It'ld be too much hassle every time to calculate the foes HP considering that Total HP are not included in the stat block. The old split for mechanics like this was RQ3 vs Elric/Stormbringer, so I guess the current versions are RQ6 vs Magic World. Both are excellent in my opinion, although I am partial to the RQ6 combat options and the tactile feel of Hit Locations. Magic World, on the other hand, has a very clean character creation system, and probably plays combat slightly quicker using Total HP (although I think the variable AP may balance that out...). Both systems are BRP, and thus worlds above most rpgs on the market

So perhaps you'll be more in the MagicWorld camp rather than the RuneQuest camp by the sounds of things

Edited July 2, 2013 by Mankcam
grammar

[Nakana]

Both systems are BRP, and thus worlds above most rpgs on the market

Ain't that the truth!

[deleriad]

Well, say I like Runequest 6 except for the "hit locations"....I might want to play Runequest 6 without the "hit locations", unless it breaks a bunch of other things in the game to not make it worth it.

In any case, I own both Runequest 6 and Magic World ...so I wouldn't be "saving money" by picking one over the other. And I like what I'm reading in Magic World a lot so perhaps this discussion is not needed anyway.

You can do a simple hack job which works passably well if you're prepared to wing it. Doing a more detailed conversion is possible.

How many Hit Points does a creature have?

Look at its location with the largest number of HP and that's its total HPs. So an average human has 7 HPs in the chest which means it has 7 total HPs.

How many Armour Points does a creature have?

Look at its most armoured location and that's its Armour Points.

When does a character suffer a serious wound?

A character suffers a serious wound when it reaches negative its normal HPs (e.g. -7 HPs) and every time it takes damage afterwards OR it takes at least its normal HPs in a single go. (e.g. a human taking 7 points of damage after armour in a single attack.)

When does a character suffer a major wound?

A character suffers a major wound when it reaches double negative its normal HPs (e.g. -14 HPs for an average human) or any time it takes at least twice its normal HPs in a single blow (14 HPs of damage at once, after armour, for an average human).

You probably then want a serious and major wounds table but that could be a simple as rolling d20 to determine which location just took the wound.

Choose location can then be used to pick a location for the serious/major wound and used to represent finding a weaker spot in the armour: rather than deducting armour points from the blow you roll a die based on the armour points to see how many APs were in the location you struck.

E.g 1AP = 1 AP

2-3 = 1d2 APs

4-5 = 1d4 APs

6-7 = 1d6

8-9 = 1d8

9-10 = 1d10

for each AP over 10, add 1 to the roll. E.g. 15 APs = 1D10+5

Some NPCs might have such good armour that this effect can't be chosen.

Statistically this will play out in a manner which is not a million miles from RQ6. It will often take 2-3 blows to put someone at risk of a serious injury however a major injury is more likely through accumulation of blows than in RQ6.

This is a very different approach to trying to use the Magic World concept of total HPs in RQ6 but it does mean that basically you don't need to convert anything and you have outcomes which are reasonably close to RQ6 without actually needing to track hit locations. (The HP mechanic is essentially a beefed up version of rabble and underlings for everyone.)

[jp42]

Well, say I like Runequest 6 except for the "hit locations"....I might want to play Runequest 6 without the "hit locations", unless it breaks a bunch of other things in the game to not make it worth it.

In any case, I own both Runequest 6 and Magic World ...so I wouldn't be "saving money" by picking one over the other. And I like what I'm reading in Magic World a lot so perhaps this discussion is not needed anyway.

Can't say as I know anything about Magic World at all, to make comparisons, but I did wonder more than anything else what the benefit was to eliminating hit locations - is it intending to speed up the combat process? To allow you greater flexibility as a GM to determine what a hit actually means? I'm not trying to denigrate, just to understand the motivation.

And if you do, wouldn't it be easier to just average CON and SIZ a la BRP, and have whole body HP?

[tgcb]

Can't say as I know anything about Magic World at all, to make comparisons, but I did wonder more than anything else what the benefit was to eliminating hit locations - is it intending to speed up the combat process? To allow you greater flexibility as a GM to determine what a hit actually means? I'm not trying to denigrate, just to understand the motivation.

And if you do, wouldn't it be easier to just average CON and SIZ a la BRP, and have whole body HP?

Yes...just trying to speed up combat.

[Mankcam]

T

Edited July 2, 2013 by Mankcam

[Mankcam]

Then in that case I would use the Rabble/Underling rules for most foes, and keep the Hit Locations for PCs and Major Villains. If this isn't quick enough you could always just use BRP concept of total HP (SIZ + CON)/2. If half HP lost, make a Persistence or Resilience roll to ignore a -20% mod. Perhaps make another roll when down to 4HP to ignore a -40% mod. This would be fairly quick and save referring to any Major Wound tables like in BRP. May be the kinda thing you're looking for

[tgcb]

Thanks to all for your suggestions!

[Chorpa]

I remember an option being available in Legend/RQII that is very similar to the Major Wound rules from BRP. We used that option in a couple of our first adventures when I didn't have the time to fully stat up all NPCs so used that option for those and see not problem with just plugging that option to RuneQuest 6. But as some have mentioned some Special Effects becomes useless. Not sure how the rules hold up in the long run, but for the characters I didn't have time to stat out the hit points and armours of all locations it worked perfectly. Considering that the Legend book is buyable for just $1 it might be worth getting the book to try that option out with RQ6.

[Mankcam]

That rule that Chorpa is refering to is probably what RQ6 has described as the Rabble/Underlings Rules, I'm not sure. That could definitely work I would think, and it has been tested by the authors so it shouldn't 'break the system' so to speak.

Here's another option that just came to me:

Don't use Limb Hit Points or Total Hit Points. I feel that the term 'Hit Points' is quite dated now, best left with D&D and computer games. It is a game mechanic term which should be replaced with something like Stamina, Toughness, etc. RQ6 actually has an Endurance trait, so I think that should be used instead.

So my big idea is to just use the Endurance %.This certainly makes Endurance a very important skill/trait, and keeps the % roll dynamic consistent.

Whenever a character receives damage, an Endurance Roll is required, with a modifier equal to -10% per 1pt of damage incurred ( thus 4pts of damage requires an Endurance Roll at -40%). Failure indicates that all subsequent actions are made at that same modifier ( -10% per 1pt damage sustained), whereas success indicates that the opponent, although damaged, has 'shaken off' any impairments due to pain etc.

Perhaps PCs and Major Opponents have a modifier equal to -05% per 1pt damage, thus given them a slightly better chance of survivability.

Perhaps make the base chance for Endurance slightly higher to compensate, possibly from CON x 2% increased to SIZ+(CON x 2)%, I'm unsure...

So I guess an opponent would be Incapacitated once they are unable to make any Endurance Rolls due to the % modifier. The result could vary depending upon the weapons being used, it may not always indicate death (fist fights come to mind, where people are knocked out or too exhausted to fight), obviously being bludgeoned with a Mace or Slashed with a sword will have more likely terminal consequences.

This would make it easier in a sense as you don't keep track of how much Hit Points have been lost, the GM is aware of how much damage is dealt in the combat round and makes the rolls according to that. I'm unsure if this will lead to faster combats or if it will slow it, but it will give a sense of escalating impairment due to being injured. It does make it quite important if you land a good hit in early in the combat scene.

I think the main thing I like about this idea is that there is no recording of Hit Points, just impairment %. Also no need to refer to Major Wound tables either, so it should be a quite fluid mechanic. I should add that I haven't tested any of these ideas in actual gameplay myself. I've learnt over the years to direct my efforts in add-on rules or narrative for my sessions, as fiddling with tested core mechanics sometimes brings unforeseen issues to the gaming table. But you might find that some of ideas give you the flavour you want for your sessions, so perhaps try them out in smaller sessions first before launching into campaign mode with them

Edited July 3, 2013 by Mankcam
complete overhaul :-)

[Chorpa]

That rule that Chorpa is refering to is probably what RQ6 has described as the Rabble/Underlings Rules, I'm not sure. That could definitely work I would think, and it has been tested by the authors so it shouldn't 'break the system' so to speak.

Well it is very similar except it is not for less competent foes, but is intended for those combats when you have plenty of foes and want to speed up combat a bit. And does use a Critical Wound table for damage over a certain threshold (just like in BRP). I will do something I normally won't do, but since the rules in Legend are OGL I don't think they will chase me down if I quote that section of the rules:

Optional Combat Rules For Non-Player Characters

One of the most time consuming elements of handling Non-Player Characters (NPCs), such as monsters, enemies and so on is keeping track of locational Hit Points during a fight, especially where several NPCs are involved. This can become confusing and often slows-down a game considerably. Legend offers are several optional ways of dealing with this issue.

General Hit Points

First, reserve locational Hit Points for major villains and enemies. For all other foes, use General Hit Points instead. General Hit Points are calculated on the average of the CON and SIZ Characteristics, rather than on their sum. So, a foe with CON 12 and SIZ 16 would have 14 Hit Points (12+16, divided by 2).

• Every NPC has a ‘Critical Wound’ rating equal to half the General Hit Points (rounded up). Thus, in our example, a foe with 14 HP has a Critical Wound rating of 7.

• Weapon damage is removed directly from the Hit Point total. When Hit Points reach zero, the NPC must make a Resilience test to remain conscious. If the test is successful a Resilience (Endurance in RuneQuest) test must be made every combat round until Hit Points are brought up to 1 or more. If the NPC loses consciousness, death results within a number of Combat Actions (Action Points in RuneQuest) equal to the Critical Wound value, unless Hit Points are brought up to 1 HP or more.

• If General Hit Points are reduced to a negative amount equal to the Critical Wound rating or more death is instantaneous. In our example, if the foe sustains 14 or more points of damage, he dies automatically.

• If the NPC suffers a single wound that exceeds his Critical Wound rating in one blow, the Games Master may make a roll on the Critical Wound table to determine what additional effects are suffered. The armour value being worn is subtracted from the D20 roll.

• If the blow inflicted by the Adventurer is a Critical Hit, add the damage to the 1D20 roll.

• In addition to the effects detailed in the Critical Wound table, the target always receives an impressive-looking scar as a permanent reminder of the experience.

Example: Alaric is battling a broo. The broo has 12 General Hits Points and wears 3 points of armour. On the first blow Alaric hits and inflicts 7 points of damage (after armour has been taken into account), which exceeds the broo’s Critical Wound level of 6. The Games Master rolls 1D20 and

scores 13. This is reduced to 10, taking into account the broo’s armour. The broo is dazed (losing its next Combat Action) and needs to make a Resilience test (which it does) to avoid unconsciousness.

On the next blow Alaric again scores a hit, delivering a further 5 points of damage. The broo is now reduced to zero Hit Points. Since it has been reduced to zero Hit Points it must make another Resilience roll or fall unconscious. This time it fails and Alaric spends his next action to give it a coup-de-grace.

I have omitted the Critical Wound table, but as most people can see it is very similar to the Major Wound system that is used in BRP and Magic World but already adapted to Legend/RuneQuest. Underlings that follows this section is basically the same what is being offered in RuneQuest with the addition of Rabble for the even weaker opponents. But as can be seen it should slot quite nicely into RuneQuest. Only thing needed is the name changes (Resilience -> Endurance and Combat Action -> Action Points for example). Edited July 3, 2013 by Chorpa

[Mankcam]

Well it is very similar except it is not for less competent foes, but is intended for those combats when you have plenty of foes and want to speed up combat a bit. And does use a Critical Wound table for damage over a certain threshold (just like in BRP).

My mistake, I incorrectly assumed that this had been reprinted with the Rabble/Underling Rules for RQ6. That will teach me to actually check the books before replying! But yes, this is what I thought you meant, and it would do the trick

[tgcb]

Problem solved

Body Parts Hit Dice - Game Master Dice

[jp42]

I dunno. Equal odds of a hand hit as a chest hit? That seems less than likely, somehow.

What ever happened to the days of Aftermath's thirty-location hit chart? You were torn between hitting the guy in the 1 (top of the head) for a quick kill and the 12 (right in the goolies) for comic effect.

[Mankcam]

Those Hit Location dice are great for adding colour to other RPGs which don't already have a system of their own. However they don't add much to games like Harn or BRP/RQ where there is already a Hit Location option available

[filbanto]

Body Parts Hit Dice - Game Master Dice

Brilliant! I'm searching the site for something else to buy so I can justify the shipping:)

[tgcb]

I dunno. Equal odds of a hand hit as a chest hit? That seems less than likely, somehow.

Those Hit Location dice are great for adding colour to other RPGs which don't already have a system of their own. However they don't add much to games like Harn or BRP/RQ where there is already a Hit Location option available

Evidently succeeding at a "Perceive Joke" roll is harder than I thought!

Or maybe I fumbled my "Try to be Clever" skill attempt???