Mankcam Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 Query query regarding DEX Order - I may be missing something, so I'll just put this out there. Does wearing heavy armour or holding heavier weapons etc slow down your reaction time (DEX order) in BRP combat? I do like how RQ6 portrays this with their Strike Rank system and want to know if BRP does something similar in the BGB rules that I may be overlooking, otherwise I'll have to port some variation of the RQ6 Strike Rank system into BRP to keep my players happy. My players dont want to change systems, they are used to BRP, but there are a number of concepts from RQ6 that would benefit our fantasy gameplay, this being among them. Any directions on where to find this in the BGB would be appreciated, or suggestions on how others have houseruled this for BRP? Quote " Sure it's fun, but it is also well known that a D20 roll and an AC is no match against a hefty swing of a D100% and a D20 Hit Location Table!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
threedeesix Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 Nope, its a Legend/RQ6 thing. I like it as well and pretty much use it from Legend verbatim. That's what I LOVE about BRP and its D100 spin offs, lots of optional rules to choose from. Its pretty easy to come up the the system that's the best fit for your group. Rod Query query regarding DEX Order - I may be missing something, so I'll just put this out there. Does wearing heavy armour or holding heavier weapons etc slow down your reaction time (DEX order) in BRP combat? I do like how RQ6 portrays this with their Strike Rank system and want to know if BRP does something similar in the BGB rules that I may be overlooking, otherwise I'll have to port some variation of the RQ6 Strike Rank system into BRP to keep my players happy. My players dont want to change systems, they are used to BRP, but there are a number of concepts from RQ6 that would benefit our fantasy gameplay, this being among them. Any directions on where to find this in the BGB would be appreciated, or suggestions on how others have houseruled this for BRP? Quote Join my Mythras/RuneQuest 6: Classic Fantasy Yahoo Group at https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/RQCF/info "D100 - Exactly 5 times better than D20" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mankcam Posted September 28, 2013 Author Share Posted September 28, 2013 (edited) Does it work verbatim, you do you need to rejigger it somewhat? Ahh, answering my own query now - I don't have the RQ6 book in front of me at present but I'm remembering now that RQ6 does initiative with SR +d10, which is similar to how I run DEX order in BRP, using DEX+d10. In RQ6, SR = (DEX+INT)/2, so yes the score is calculated differently (more realistic actually), but it still ends up on a similar scale so I guess it will work as written. So using this with BRP, the DEX Order Penalty = Limb AP/5. Should port over as written, I'll give it a go. Another good innovation from RQ6! Edited September 28, 2013 by Mankcam grammar Quote " Sure it's fun, but it is also well known that a D20 roll and an AC is no match against a hefty swing of a D100% and a D20 Hit Location Table!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
threedeesix Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 (edited) Do it work verbatim, you do you need to rejigger it somewhat? Pretty much verbatim. Figure, in RQ6/Legend Initiative is rolled with 1D10 plus your DEX. In BRP rolling 1D10 and adding DEX is an option. As long as you use this option it can work exactly. Total all Armor Points worn on all locations and divide by 5, and use it as a negative modifier applied to your DEX. Then roll the D10 for your actual initiative. Just make a place on your character sheet to mark the Initiative Armor Modifier so its handy. Rod Edited September 28, 2013 by threedeesix Forgot to divide by 5!!! Quote Join my Mythras/RuneQuest 6: Classic Fantasy Yahoo Group at https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/RQCF/info "D100 - Exactly 5 times better than D20" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mankcam Posted September 28, 2013 Author Share Posted September 28, 2013 (edited) Actually I would probably rather go with ENC as opposed to AP, it just seems more logical to me. Some finely made armour, for instance, could have a higher AP value than their standard counterparts, yet not suffer the same initiative penalty in doing so. I'll probably house rule it along the lines of: DEX Order Penalty = Total ENC/2. (Any DEX SR reduced to '0' just means you go last in the DEX Order rather than not have an action at all) It won't work out on the exact scale as RQ6, but it does follow the concept of weight affecting your reaction ability in combat. In RQ3 we could clearly see the difference with wearing armour, as a character with no armour would often attack quicker (and occasionally more than once in a Melee Round) over a heavily armoured character just tankin' along. It kinda gave game balance if someone wanted to play a thief-cutpurse over an armoured warrior. This rule will practically do the same thing, and it'll suffice for my troupe I think. Here's hoping Edited September 28, 2013 by Mankcam Grammar, yet again. Must be a bad day for me :-) Quote " Sure it's fun, but it is also well known that a D20 roll and an AC is no match against a hefty swing of a D100% and a D20 Hit Location Table!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
threedeesix Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 Should work nicely. Quote Join my Mythras/RuneQuest 6: Classic Fantasy Yahoo Group at https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/RQCF/info "D100 - Exactly 5 times better than D20" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mankcam Posted September 28, 2013 Author Share Posted September 28, 2013 Feel free to plunder it if it sounds workable! Quote " Sure it's fun, but it is also well known that a D20 roll and an AC is no match against a hefty swing of a D100% and a D20 Hit Location Table!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDLeary Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 Actually I would probably rather go with ENC as opposed to AP, it just seems more logical to me. Some finely made armour, for instance, could have a higher AP value than their standard counterparts, yet not suffer the same initiative penalty in doing so. I'll probably house rule it along the lines of: DEX Order Penalty = Total ENC/2. (Any DEX SR reduced to '0' just means you go last in the DEX Order rather than not have an action at all) It won't work out on the exact scale as RQ6, but it does follow the concept of weight affecting your reaction ability in combat. In RQ3 we could clearly see the difference with wearing armour, as a character with no armour would often attack quicker (and occasionally more than once in a Melee Round) over a heavily armoured character just tankin' along. It kinda gave game balance if someone wanted to play a thief-cutpurse over an armoured warrior. This rule will practically do the same thing, and it'll suffice for my troupe I think. Here's hoping I like it. A nice and simple option! SDLeary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzunder Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 When I ran Legend I noticed how much this really affected dwarfs, especially since I had a mixed dwarf-elf player group and combined with move penalties, the dwarfs kept arriving in their plate after the elfs had killed all the orcs.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Questbird Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 (edited) When I ran Legend I noticed how much this really affected dwarfs, especially since I had a mixed dwarf-elf player group and combined with move penalties, the dwarfs kept arriving in their plate after the elfs had killed all the orcs.. Although in Classic Fantasy, dwarfs can cope with more ENC -- so using Mankcam's formula might work better here. You could also use the Encumbrance category from Classic fantasy (p.12): DEX Order Penalty = 1 per encumbrance level above Unloaded [TABLE] [TR][TD]Encumbrance category[/TD][TD]ENC[/TD][TD]DEX order penalty[/TD][/TR] [TR][TD]Unloaded[/TD][TD]0.5xSTR[/TD][TD]0[/TD][/TR] [TR][TD]Light[/TD][TD]1xSTR[/TD][TD]1[/TD][/TR] [TR][TD]Moderate[/TD][TD]1.5xSTR[/TD][TD]2[/TD][/TR] [TR][TD]Heavy[/TD][TD]2xSTR[/TD][TD]3[/TD][/TR] [TR][TD]Extreme[/TD][TD]2.5xSTR[/TD][TD]4[/TD][/TR] [TR][TD]Maximum[/TD][TD]3xSTR[/TD][TD]5[/TD][/TR] [/TABLE] Edited September 30, 2013 by Questbird Make table more readable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mankcam Posted September 30, 2013 Author Share Posted September 30, 2013 (edited) Yeah that is another good way to do it, and it works in well with those Encumbrance Levels from Classic Fantasy (which I have recently adopted into all my BRP games). Although I don't think the scale is steep enough. For instance, I think carrying more than three times your Strength value should be a more hefty impairment than -5 SR, you should expect to almost always be going last in combat order if you are carrying that kind of weight. In keeping with the idea of using the Encumbrance Load Levels from BRP Classicv Fantasy, how would it go if you had -1 SR at Light Load, -2 SR at Moderate Load, then for subsequent Fatigue Levels have a -SR value equal to double the MOV Penalty for that Load Level. The scale would look something like this: Unloaded (Below half STR ENC) = No penalty Light (STR ENC) = -1 SR Moderate (STR x 1.5 ENC) = - 2 SR Heavy (STR x 2 ENC) = - 4 SR Extreme (STR x 1.5 ENC) = - 8 SR Maximum (STR x 3 ENC) = - 16 SR Not sure if the values are too high, but you cannot be reduced to any value less than '0 SR', that will just mean that you go last in DEX Order for that combat round. It should work okay... Edited September 30, 2013 by Mankcam Quote " Sure it's fun, but it is also well known that a D20 roll and an AC is no match against a hefty swing of a D100% and a D20 Hit Location Table!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickMiddleton Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 Not convinced ENC should DIRECTLY impose an SR / DEX penalty, actually. When I was steel weapon re enacting, varying levels of armour / burden had little direct impact on my reaction times. Fighting for 30 minutes solid in full harness in hot weather, or after having marched for several miles on the other hand... Basically, if I were to impose SR / DEX rank penalties, it would for be for Level of Fatigue, NOT Level of Encumbrance. Cheers, Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mankcam Posted September 30, 2013 Author Share Posted September 30, 2013 ...hmmm, well, that idea does have merit actually. I assumed weight would slow down reaction time, but you're right that it is only a contributing factor, and by itself it may not always be an indicator. Considering the Fatigue rules in Classic Fantasy were your creation Nick, how would you expand on that system if you wanted to include modifiers to DEX Order? Would it be -2 SR per every Fatigue Level perhaps, or equal to the MOV penalty, or something along those lines? Quote " Sure it's fun, but it is also well known that a D20 roll and an AC is no match against a hefty swing of a D100% and a D20 Hit Location Table!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickMiddleton Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 ...hmmm, well, that idea does have merit actually. I assumed weight would slow down reaction time, but you're right that it is only a contributing factor, and by itself it may not always be an indicator. Considering the Fatigue rules in Classic Fantasy were your creation Nick, how would you expand on that system if you wanted to include modifiers to DEX Order? Would it be -2 SR per every Fatigue Level perhaps, or equal to the MOV penalty, or something along those lines? Off the cuff: Tired imposes a -1 Dex penalty. Weary imposes a -2 Dex penalty. Exhausted imposes a -4 or 1/4 Dex (whichever is larger) penalty. Collapsed imposes a -8 or 1/2 Dex penalty. The GM should take account of load and circumstances to assess the characters initial state at the start of a combat, and how frequently they ask for further fatigue rolls. Fresh / unladen characters can probably go for TURNS without a roll - Winded characters, or characters with light or heavier loads can probably only manage (STR+CON-total ENC) rounds before they have to roll. And things like suffering a successful knock back / trip / major wound might well trigger another. Cheers, Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atgxtg Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 I have to agree with Nick, when I've worn armor it didn't slow me down directly, I just tired out faster, when eventually slowed me down. What the armor DID mess with was my center of balance. I had to be careful when I leaned over or to one side, since the mail shirt I was wearing made me top heavy. While I never topped over, I did have to steady myself a couple of times, and would have been an easier target. I suspect it was more due to the fact that all the weight was on my back that due to the amount of weight. Quote Chaos stalks my world, but she's a big girl and can take of herself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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