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[Not canonical but derived from studying illustrations in RQ2, the Guide to Glorantha, etc.]

A great variety of helmets are worn in central Genertela; the selection below is not definitive. Whilst certain designs are historically associated with particular regions, this does not denote the territory within which a particular helmet is found.

A: Pelandan

1 is knowns as a pseudo-mostali, claimed to be based on the helmets acquired by Daxdarius, and now worn only by gladiators. 2-6 are hoplite helmets, and may be worn by phalanx soldiers across Peloria, Dragon Pass and Prax.

B: Dara Happan

1 is a simple bronze cap; 2 adds a cranial ridge; 3-7 a nose-guard and various levels of added protection.

C: Pelorian

Some are clearly developed from the Pelandan helmets, though others, such as 5 are virtually identical to those worn by some Orlanthi. 10 is decorated with an embossed or incised moustache and beard.

D: Saird

Related to the Pelorian but 1-5 have a high and forward inclined lobate apex; in 1-2 stylized as a horse’s head. 6-7 are Yelmalion ‘hawk helms’.

E ‘Barbarian Belt’

1-3 are simple ‘pot’ helmets; 4 is more complex; 5 is imposing and the helm of a king or champion; 6 is fashioned from boars’ tusks; 7 is an example of a Grazelander helmet.

F: Helmet Furniture

A variety of forms of decoration are added to helmets, though usually only heroes, champions and officers so advertise their presence on the battlefield. Such furniture adds to the weight of the helmets and poses the risk of an enemy grasping it, so may be made to be easily detachable.

The helmets shown are only examples; such decoration can be added to almost all helmet designs at the whim of the wearer.

1-3 add horse hair crests; 4 has a plume; 5 a feather; 6 horns and is typical of an Uroxi helmet; 7, the Grazelander helmet includes a horse figurine with a tail made of hair. Nose-guards are often styled as Death or Truth Runes.

helms.png

Edited by M Helsdon
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There's intended to be two additional aspects: an evolutionary 'line' from left to right on most rows (with obvious exceptions) and an indication of how designs and features are copied from one region to another.

The Pelorian row was initially intended to split and merge between Solar and Storm, but I couldn't find any tidy way to show this.

The Saird row was intended to show how a 'Phrygian' style helmet could appear in Glorantha, with the peak evolving from a stylized horse head.

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18 hours ago, M Helsdon said:

[Not canonical but derived from studying illustrations in RQ2, the Guide to Glorantha, etc.]

A great variety of helmets are worn in central Genertela; the selection below is not definitive. Whilst certain designs are historically associated with particular regions, this does not denote the territory within which a particular helmet is found.

Personally, I'd also really like to see these in a face-on (or 3/4) view.  They appear to be modeled/rendered in some sort of CAD, which (theoretically) would allow arbitrary angles of display...?

 

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2 hours ago, g33k said:

Personally, I'd also really like to see these in a face-on (or 3/4) view. 

That would take several days...

 

2 hours ago, g33k said:

They appear to be modeled/rendered in some sort of CAD, which (theoretically) would allow arbitrary angles of display...?

I'd very much like to do that but... this was drawn using MS Paint.

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I like this thread a lot. My campaign has a less bronze age feel, so the harness tends more toward dark ages and medieval. I have Sartarites and others who share their technology in Vendel, Anglo-Saxon and Viking style stuff. One of the Brightwaters, a Grazelander woman named Sayyid, recently acquired this one:

Hunnic Cavalry Helmet.jpg

Edited by Baelor
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15 minutes ago, Baelor said:

I like this thread a lot. My campaign has a less bronze age feel, so the harness tends more toward dark ages and medieval. I have Sartarites and others who share their technology in Vendel, Anglo-Saxon and Viking style stuff. One of the Brightwaters, a Grazelander woman named Sayyid, recently acquired this one:

Hunnic Cavalry Helmet.jpg

A reconstruction of a lamellar Avar-style helmet based on one excavated at Niederstotzingen.

See: http://www.doiserbia.nb.rs/img/doi/0350-0241/2005/0350-02410555161B.pdf

In Glorantha: possibly Carmanian?

Edited by M Helsdon
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This one is often attributed to the Avars, Huns, Gepids and Lombards in our world. Realistically, it could have been available to just about any of them. And there are definite Lombard brow/ nasal plaques like this (see below for one attributed to King Agilulf of the Lombards).

In my game I let it be something known to Sartarite/Orlanthi Culture. I have slightly different styles in Sartar (Vendel/ Valsgard) , the Holy Country (Gepid/ Avar/ Lombard), Pavis territory (poorer overall, so more Viking style), etc.

Ultimately, for this one, I was thinking that it was an Orlanthi helm, but that the style was acquired from the Grazelanders in the time just after resettlement began again after the Dragonkill War. So Northern Nomads.

I don't know much about the canon Carmanians, but I based a lot of Imperial armor and tech on Sassinid Persian. Carmania was a portion of the Persian Empire, and the were all nomads originally too.

So, long answer - to get to YES. I think Carmanian works.

Question for you, if you don't mind - Were the Carmanians orginally followers of the Yu-Kargzant pantheon like the Grazelanders?

helmet_plaque_of_king_agilulf_gilt_bronze_plaque_from_helmet_of_lombard_leader_(today_in_florence)__c_600_-150443AFE90689E80E6.png

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9 minutes ago, Baelor said:

Carmania was a portion of the Persian Empire, and the were all nomads originally too.

Most of Kerman Province is sandy desert; it's part of the very hostile desert Alexander marched his army through returning from India. You can find Peloria nearby on some maps of the ancient Persian Empire.

 

19 minutes ago, Baelor said:

 

Question for you, if you don't mind - Were the Carmanians orginally followers of the Yu-Kargzant pantheon like the Grazelanders?

No, the Carmanians are Westerners, but with a dualistic religion. They are not related to the Horse Peoples.

 

 

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Thanks. I have some homework to catch up on.

I have, with no actual info, you understand) been describing Carmanian and Pelorian culture and tech as Sassanid in style and Northern Nomadic in origin, when the subject come up among my players. Since we are centered around the Weis Cut, this is mostly when they encounter Lunar merchants and soldiery. I will probably maintain the same line with them for consistency, but I like to know canon too when I can.

 

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6 minutes ago, Baelor said:

I have, with no actual info, you understand) been describing Carmanian and Pelorian culture and tech as Sassanid in style and Northern Nomadic in origin, when the subject come up among my players. Since we are centered around the Weis Cut, this is mostly when they encounter Lunar merchants and soldiery. I will probably maintain the same line with them for consistency, but I like to know canon too when I can.

In very approximate terms: Carmania is roughly Sassanid but not nomadic; Dara Happa is roughly Mesopotamian (Assyrian/Babylonian) but with Hellenistic hoplites; Lunar is not quite like any terrestrial template - perhaps a mixture of Mesopotamia and Hellenistic, but with significant differences.

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8 hours ago, M Helsdon said:

That would take several days...

I'd very much like to do that but... this was drawn using MS Paint.

Ahh.  OK, forget I asked!  The request was based on the belief that they were renders, so you could just set the POV and re-render...

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6 hours ago, g33k said:

Ahh.  OK, forget I asked!  The request was based on the belief that they were renders, so you could just set the POV and re-render...

I intend doing four or five front images, but it will take a while. I'd like to be able to produce more complex images but am limited by the tools I have. Needs must...

Edited by M Helsdon
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A little bit about the origin of E6: “Meriones gave Odysseus a bow, a quiver and a sword, and put a cleverly made leather helmet on his head. On the inside there was a strong lining on interwoven straps, onto which a felt cap had been sewn in. The outside was cleverly adorned all around with rows of white tusks from a shiny-toothed boar, the tusks running in alternate directions in each row” (Homer, Iliad 10.260–5).

A boar's tusk helmet appears in an illustration in the Sartar Companion.

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When you think about it, a helmet made of boars' tusks represents a phenomenal amount of wealth.  How many tusks does it take to make such a helmet?  500? 1000?  Then divide by 2 and multiply by the price of a boar...  Given the thickness of a boar's tusk and the weight of it, a helmet like that would also be worth a lot of AP, and might well have an intrinsic enchantment.  Anyone want to write them up for the Plunder thread?

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7 hours ago, Darius West said:

When you think about it, a helmet made of boars' tusks represents a phenomenal amount of wealth.  How many tusks does it take to make such a helmet?  500? 1000?  Then divide by 2 and multiply by the price of a boar...  Given the thickness of a boar's tusk and the weight of it, a helmet like that would also be worth a lot of AP, and might well have an intrinsic enchantment.  Anyone want to write them up for the Plunder thread?

Despite a boar's tusk helmet being described in the Iliad as 'unique' representations of them on Mycenaean pottery are common and a number (fragments included) have been excavated. Each helmet required tusks from around forty to fifty boars (or large domesticated pigs).

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On 10/28/2016 at 1:18 AM, M Helsdon said:

A little bit about the origin of E6: “Meriones gave Odysseus a bow, a quiver and a sword, and put a cleverly made leather helmet on his head. On the inside there was a strong lining on interwoven straps, onto which a felt cap had been sewn in. The outside was cleverly adorned all around with rows of white tusks from a shiny-toothed boar, the tusks running in alternate directions in each row” (Homer, Iliad 10.260–5).

A boar's tusk helmet appears in an illustration in the Sartar Companion.

DAMN.  You mean it wasn't from the Lando Calrissian disguise!???!

Star-Wars-countdown--Landos-hat_article_

:D :D :D

 

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4 hours ago, M Helsdon said:

Despite a boar's tusk helmet being described in the Iliad as 'unique' representations of them on Mycenaean pottery are common and a number (fragments included) have been excavated. Each helmet required tusks from around forty to fifty boars (or large domesticated pigs).

Only 40 or 50 pigs huh?  Well if the tusks are too small you can't use them, so that would mean either keeping a boar alive for long enough to produce good tusks or buying the tusks from a hunter.  RQ6 says that a regular pig costs 50 silver and a superior pig costs 150 silver.  So pricing tusks, even at half the value of a "reasonable pig" still makes the price of the helmet 1250 silvers, but lets face facts, it is probably more expensive.  This at least makes  a tusk helmet around the price of a standard plated helmet costs (1400), and probably a lot more.  It would probably weigh around the same amount too at a guess.

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Tusks are essentially a throwaway by-product of raising pigs. What other uses are there for them? As long as farmers raise pigs, there is a ready-made supply of tusks. this is especially true amongst Tusk-Riders.

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1 hour ago, Darius West said:

Only 40 or 50 pigs huh?  Well if the tusks are too small you can't use them, so that would mean either keeping a boar alive for long enough to produce good tusks or buying the tusks from a hunter.  

In ancient Europe, and probably various areas of central Genertela, wild boar would not have been uncommon, and were hunted because they were common, and both good eating and a pest to agriculture. It would not take long for the hunters in a region to collect enough for a helmet. Though such a helmet offers more protection than leather, it would not survive many serious blows because the teeth would shatter. A bronze helmet would be superior in every way.

At one excavation at Ialysos 195 boar's tusks were found in one deposit, and so it seems that helmets made from them were prestige items - not especially useful in combat.

1 hour ago, Darius West said:

It would probably weigh around the same amount too at a guess.

A boar's tusk helmet weighs about 2 pounds/1 kilogram. Ancient bronze helmets range in weight between 1 - 5 kilograms, with 2.2 kilograms a likely average. If Gloranthan bronze is roughly equivalent to ancient terrestrial bronze then a similar distribution is likely.

Edited by M Helsdon
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On ‎10‎/‎26‎/‎2016 at 1:07 PM, M Helsdon said:

In very approximate terms: Carmania is roughly Sassanid but not nomadic; Dara Happa is roughly Mesopotamian (Assyrian/Babylonian) but with Hellenistic hoplites; Lunar is not quite like any terrestrial template - perhaps a mixture of Mesopotamia and Hellenistic, but with significant differences.

I always saw Lunar as closer to Roman than Greek, primarily because of how expansionistic the Romans and Lunars have been.  I also tend to associate the color red with the Romans.  They were ruled by an emperor (or the tripartite/bipartite consuls in the case of the Romans) for hundreds of years which, with the possible exceptions of Philip of Macedon and Alexander, isn't the case with the Greeks.

Edited by Yelm's Light
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32 minutes ago, Yelm's Light said:

I always saw Lunar as closer to Roman than Greek, primarily because of how expansionistic the Romans and Lunars have been.  (I also tend to associate the color red with the Romans.)  They were ruled by an emperor for hundreds of years which, with the possible exceptions of Philip of Macedon and Alexander, isn't the case with the Greeks.

There is a resemblance (and at one time it was very strong in the source material), I believe, but there's a stronger one with Mesopotamia, and ancient Syria and Iran, with a few bits of Classical Greece thrown in, plus a degree of Byzantium in costume and politics. Regarding Alexander's empire: several of the Diadochi (specifically Seleucus and Ptolemy) founded relatively long-lived dynasties.

The Lunar military is far less uniform than the Roman military (even allowing for the variation in auxiliary units), and the use of red by the Romans is in large part a modern invention - there's evidence that most ordinary soldiers wore undyed off-white tunics.

This is my opinion - you'd have to ask Jeff or Greg to get the precise terrestrial equivalent(s).

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18 hours ago, M Helsdon said:

Though such a helmet offers more protection than leather, it would not survive many serious blows because the teeth would shatter. A bronze helmet would be superior in every way.

That is true only up to a point.  As far as I am aware, the tusks were on top of a leather helmet, and broken teeth could be replaced. A bronze helmet by comparison could not be so easily repaired as it would require re-casting any broken piece from scratch.  You can't just cold work bronze back into position, or even reforge it the way you do with iron. Bronze is a very unforgiving material.  I am sure re-sewing a few broken tusks is a doddle by comparison.

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25 minutes ago, Darius West said:

As far as I am aware, the tusks were on top of a leather helmet, and broken teeth could be replaced. 

If a blow were sufficient to break the teeth, it would also hurt the wearer. And a helmet cannot be repaired in combat (except by using a Repair spell).

26 minutes ago, Darius West said:

A bronze helmet by comparison could not be so easily repaired as it would require re-casting any broken piece from scratch.  

In Glorantha a Repair spell will mend broken or dented armor, so long as all the pieces are present.

In the real world anyone wearing a broken boar's tusk helmet would at best be stunned or concussed.

29 minutes ago, Darius West said:

You can't just cold work bronze back into position, or even reforge it the way you do with iron. Bronze is a very unforgiving material.  I am sure re-sewing a few broken tusks is a doddle by comparison.

True in our world, but in combat a helmet that fails means the wearer is wounded, or dead. In contrast, a wearer of a bronze helmet would have taken far less damage. In this case, 'superior' means still able to defend themselves.

A boar's tusk helmet in both worlds is a prestige item, but not one you'd want to rely upon in combat unless you had nothing better.

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As requested some front views:

A variety of helmets displaying Runes. Top to bottom:

  • Three Dara Happan helms: first with no decoration; second with a Solar disk; third with a Truth Rune.
  • Pelorian helmets; first with no decoration; second the helmet of a Lunar soldier displaying the Death and Moon Runes; the third, almost identical to the second is the helm of an Orlanthi Wind Lord with the Mobility Rune prominently displayed.
  • Front and side views of Lunar Full Moon Corps helmets, complete with silver masks. The first is a decorative Parade style; the second is a more practical campaign helm.

The Lunar Full Moon Corps masks are derived from Roman Cavalry display helmets, the Sumerian Mask of Warka and the Tales of the Reaching Moon issue 12 cover by Dan Barker.

helmets front.PNG

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