RQG: how much RQ3 still in it?

[Unferth]

3 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

And on the subject of "which Rune gets the most spells", I suspect the "winners" are going to be Earth, Air, and Fertility, with the losers being Water, Fire, Moon, and Stasis. Hm, that's a thought, I don't think there are any stasis spells. Poor old Lhankor Mhy, has a rune with no spells.

Are you talking about rune magic or sorcery? For sorcery, Water and Fire have many spells. Stasis has Castback, Neutralize Armor, Preserve Item, and Stop Vessel. Of which Neutralize Armor is notable strong, though I imagine most sorcerers who know it will know it through insight from Movement expertise instead.

I did the per-rune/technique sorcery breakdown, mostly just to make sure that I wasn't overlooking hidden gems for Moon or something. Water came out less dominant among the elements than it seemed given all the nautical spells, I think Darkness may be a bit underrepresented but the rest all have a good spread. The Form runes are spotty especially given that they don't provide any secondary insights, although Spirit has obvious uses. Of the power pairs, I think harmony/disharmony is least covered but that's from memory.

[Jeff]

19 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

Now, it's only my opinion and I could most certainly be mistaken, but I think that the direction taken isn't going to even do as well as the BGB did.  

Keep in mind all the activity so far is just from the PDF pre-release of the core rules, and yet it has already done far better than BGB did in its ENTIRE RUN and the physical book isn't available yet. And we have the Bestiary and the GM pack closely following. Given that you have made it clear that you are not interested in buying RQG (and yet are one of the most prolific posters on RQG threads), it could just be that you are not the market.

[Gene M.]

35 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

Well, I think you should worry. I suspect that Most of those $50+ computer games fizzle out.

I mean, they keep porting Skyrim to new platforms and people pay a full $60 to buy it all over again, so I'm not sure about the force of this objection.

[Jeff]

Just now, Gene M. said:

I mean, they keep porting Skyrim to new platforms and people pay a full $60 to buy it all over again, so I'm not sure about the force of this objection.

I bought it all over again!

[Gene M.]

Just now, Jeff said:

I bought it all over again!

...me too. I was just playing it on Switch last night!

Anyway, the prices seem on par to me. Plus, RQG is the best looking RPG book I have ever seen.

[creativehum]

All of this is personal and subjective (of course)...

But I don't want a "pared down" Runequest Glorantha version of any kind.

The point of Glorantha is that it is Glorantha. The point of Runequest (now, at least) is that it is a game fully integrated into the setting of Glorantha. 

If I want Glorantha I want the whole deal. I want the rules that reflect the setting completely, and I want enough setting material (ranging from cultures to hero quests) to let me play the game. If it takes three volumes and a $150, so be it. The buy-in for Runequest: Roleplaying in Glorantha is going to be a lot more than $150. It will be the time and energy devoted to reading up on the setting, investing in the ideas of the setting, and digging into all that in play. Either one wants a "deep-end setting" -- or one does not. If one does, it sound like the three volumes of RQG will deliver that. If not, one shouldn't be picking up the game.

If I want lighter version of Glorantha (or Runequest, for that matter), there are a half-dozen easy to acquire options of this nature. But that isn' t what RQG is about. It's been clear since 1999 that the push from Team: Glorantha has been to make game lines and setting products that bring GLORANTHA to the gaming table -- as big and unwieldy as that might be.

[PhilHibbs]

Runes by Rune Spell: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1wxSvlDR_FnEuboJ4Mso57ULC6WDTMFNAQU8gHrsUyOE

The winner is indeed Air. Like I said, Dragon Pass Orlanthi setting bias showing through there. I left the Magic Rune spells blank, but filled in all the element Runes for elemental spells.

Air	29
Earth	21
Fertility	21
Harmony	18
Illusion	17
Death	15
Beast	13
Man	12
Disorder	10
Movement	10
Truth	10
Fire	9
Darkness	9
Moon	8
Water	7
Stasis	0

I also categorized the spells as Offensive, Defensive, and Utility just out of interest, of course the categories are subjective and some I flagged as more than one type.

Edited June 14, 2018 by PhilHibbs

[simonh]

2 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

Now, it's only my opinion and I could most certainly be mistaken, but I think that the direction taken isn't going to even do as well as the BGB did.  

Well it was the number one seller on Drivethru for over a week and is still in the number 2 slot a fortnight after launch. I don’t remember the BGB making that kind of impact (much as I love it Jason!).

The brutal economics of cut down versions is that too many people who would pay for the full version, if it was the only option, end up buying the lite version instead. Too many companies have crippled or killed themselves making this mistake. The most popular way to mitigate this risk is to make the lite version too lite to be truly useful, at which point it starts looking like a scam.

Edited June 14, 2018 by simonh

[Atgxtg]

2 hours ago, Gene M. said:

.

Anyway, the prices seem on par to me. Plus, RQG is the best looking RPG book I have ever seen.

That is probably the one thing about RQG that everyone seems to say. I haven't seen it, but apparently it's gorgeous. But does anybody play an RPG because of it's looks? Do they run a campaign because of it? If they do, great.

[Gene M.]

1 minute ago, Atgxtg said:

That is probably the one thing about RQG that everyone seems to say. I haven't seen it, but apparently it's gorgeous. But does anybody play an RPG because of it's looks? Do they run a campaign because of it? If they do, great.

The art can draw people into a setting, and RQG is as much about its setting as a game like Numenera is, to name something else as art-heavy. My wife became interested in Glorantha because the recent art is so good (she's a painter with a BFA in Studio Art).

[Atgxtg]

41 minutes ago, simonh said:

Well it was the number one seller on Drivethru for over a week and is still in the number 2 slot a fortnight after launch. I don’t remember the BGB making that kind of impact (much as I love it Jason!).

Yes, and that's encouraging. But I wonder just how many of those sales are to to new players, and how many are just people like us dipping into the pond once again. 

Quote

The brutal economics of cut down versions is that too many people who would pay for the full version, if it was the only option, end up buying the lite version instead. Too many companies have crippled or killed themselves making this mistake. The most popular way to mitigate this risk is to make the lite version too lite to be truly useful, at which point it starts looking like a scam.

I don't believe that. From what I've seen, mainstream RPGers (D&D, Pathfinder, etc.) who might pick up and buy a low cost RPG on impulse won't take that same risk on a more expensive book, especially when there are things for the game that they are currently playing that they still want.  My FLGS don't stock much RPG stuff anymore, and very little that isn't D&D based. So they probably won't be stocking RQG, which means the only people who will get it are those who already know about it and want it. 

Even something like the quckstart with adventure and self contained rules at a low price point would at least get the stuff on the shelves and get it seen. I've gamed with the owners of two of the FLGS and they are more likely to risk buying a couple of copies a $5-$15 to try it out than a $50 one. Especially if it is called RuneQuest. The GS around here got their fingers burned with MRQ and don't want to risk getting stuck with a lot of dead stock again. 

 

Het guys. I want RQ to successful too. I want to like this game. As a RQ fan since 1980 I'm on the same team. 

Edited June 14, 2018 by Atgxtg

[Atgxtg]

10 minutes ago, Gene M. said:

The art can draw people into a setting, and RQG is as much about its setting as a game like Numenera is, to name something else as art-heavy.

Yeah, RQG is, for better or worse, all about G. 

10 minutes ago, Gene M. said:

My wife became interested in Glorantha because the recent art is so good (she's a painter with a BFA in Studio Art).

Did she buy a copy?

[Gene M.]

Just now, Atgxtg said:

Yeah, RQG is, for better or worse, all about G. 

Did she buy a copy?

I mean it was me there at midnight hitting the purchase button, but we share funds. I don't really see the point in buying the PDF twice, but once I'm running a campaign we will probably get a second hard copy as I'll need one behind the screen for just myself. 

[Atgxtg]

Just now, Gene M. said:

I mean it was me there at midnight hitting the purchase button, but we share funds. I don't really see the point in buying the PDF twice, but once I'm running a campaign we will probably get a second hard copy as I'll need one behind the screen for just myself. 

Oh sure. no sense it two PDFs. I just mean is she actually going to be playing the game and getting more RQG products? 

[Gene M.]

Just now, Atgxtg said:

Oh sure. no sense it two PDFs. I just mean is she actually going to be playing the game and getting more RQG products? 

Yep. My wife plays tabletop games and is a D&D referee. I doubt we'll have a need to buy two of the GM pack and the Bestiary since we're one household and unlikely to be running two games of RQG at the same time, but a second copy of the main rulebook is a very likely purchase. 

[Atgxtg]

Just now, Gene M. said:

Yep. My wife plays tabletop games and is a D&D referee. I doubt we'll have a need to buy two of the GM pack and the Bestiary since we're one household and unlikely to be running two games of RQG at the same time, but a second copy of the main rulebook is a very likely purchase. 

Yeah, I can see the whole single household thing. When I was younger I had a roommate who was a gamer and usually one copy of stuff was enough. But, as a D&D player, would she have bought, seen, or even been aware of RQG if it were not for you. That's my concern here. It seems like people already have to be fans of a D100 game or Glorantha to even be aware of RQG. I have other concerns, such as the fact that my players can't handle RQ magic, but that's them.

[creativehum]

30 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

That is probably the one thing about RQG that everyone seems to say. I haven't seen it, but apparently it's gorgeous. But does anybody play an RPG because of it's looks? Do they run a campaign because of it? If they do, great.

My Monday Night Group plays lots of different RPGs. (We rotate GMs, and people run what they want.) Most of them have had no exposure to Glorantha, and none of them to Runequest.

If I want to run RuneQuest: Roleplaying in Glorantha for them, you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to place RQG, the RQG Bestiary, and the RQG GM book, and the Glorantha Sourcebook on the table and let them flip through them. The art is going to be a major influence if they are excited and interested in playing. What else could hook them on an intuitive and gut level? The mechanics will matter, but me babbling about mechanics for half-an-hour will pale in comparison to that amazing image of Orlanth striding across the land in the Glorantha Sourcebook, the tatted-up warriors in RQG, and so on.

Glorantha, for better and worse, is a alien and strange place. Without the art to help draw new players in, and help get everyone on the same page, I'm not sure exactly what would inspire people on a whim to get excited and focused on what roleplaying in Glorantha is supposed to be like.

[Atgxtg]

2 minutes ago, creativehum said:

My Monday Night Group plays lots of different RPGs. (We rotate GMs, and people run what they want.) Most of them have had no exposure to Glorantha, and none of them to Runequest.

If I want to run RuneQuest: Roleplaying in Glorantha for them, you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to place RQG, the RQG Bestiary, and the RQG GM book, and the Glorantha Sourcebook on the table and let them flip through them.

My groups mostly play D&D, and will pretty much revert to it if I'm not running. It's not so much because the players don't like  other RPGs, but because D&D is easier. They love Pendragon but will play D&D if I'm not around to run it. 

2 minutes ago, creativehum said:

Glorantha, for better and worse, is a alien and strange place. Without the art to help draw new players in, and help get everyone on the same page, I'm not sure exactly what would inspire people on a whim to get excited and focused on what roleplaying in Glorantha is supposed to be like.

You have a point there. It seems like I'm one of the few, if not the only on around here is isn't in awe of RQG, and I also happen to be the one who hasn't seen the art. There could be a connection. 

[Gene M.]

26 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

Yeah, I can see the whole single household thing. When I was younger I had a roommate who was a gamer and usually one copy of stuff was enough. But, as a D&D player, would she have bought, seen, or even been aware of RQG if it were not for you. That's my concern here. It seems like people already have to be fans of a D100 game or Glorantha to even be aware of RQG. I have other concerns, such as the fact that my players can't handle RQ magic, but that's them.

I mean, I am also new to RQ. I'm 31, so I am too young to have been a RQ3 grognard (to bring it back to the thread topic a bit!). I was interested in older forms of D&D (I used to run an open table D&D session using the original 1974 rules--by the way, the Jack O'Bear is based on the original pumpkin-headed bugbear illustration from Supplement I: Greyhawk!), and I ran across a discussion about RuneQuest on one of the old school D&D forums. Classic had come out, so I bought that and got very into it but held off on running it because I knew the new edition was coming out. I also checked out Mythras (their Monster Island module is great), but it's a little too crunchy for me to run. Anyway, I got into Glorantha but held off on running a campaign because I knew the new edition was coming. I considered running HQ, but after playing HQ for the first time I concluded it was probably a little too free-form for my player group (great game though if you have a particularly imaginative group). My main exposure to RuneQuest is only what's available through Chaosium right now. So that means not much RQ3 content. I wouldn't be surprised if people who knew about RuneQuest found out just by browsing the Chaosium website. But that means you'll have people like me who know RQ2 and RQG but not RQ3. When people talk about the superiority of such and such RQ3 rule, I just have to take your word for it! 

You're saying that you're worried people won't even be aware of RQG. I mean, that's also a question of marketing and promotion.  It seems to me Chaosium has been trying to roll it out in a big way. I know the Quickstart's timing was a bit off, but that they decided to do a livestream to launch it, and chose an already established streamer group to do it, is an indication that they are serious about promoting it. I am not the biggest Actual Play viewer, but it's a huge part of the tabletop scene now, driving D&D growth, and that they knew to launch it that way makes me confident they'll promote it well. I watched the RQG stream live and answered questions in chat about the game to the best of my abilities and knowledge (which is so very meager compared to some of the minds on the Glorantha subforum here!). But also the product itself has to have some hooks to appeal to new gamers. That's not only a matter of the written content, but also the way it's presented. That edge in presentation can immediately grab people. RQG not only looks better than pretty much anything else out there, it also looks different. It's not a generic fantasy world, so people who want to branch out from the blandness of the Forgotten Realms may find it intriguing.

Of course, the rollout is also subject to financial pressures, not having a huge staff, and at this point being known only for Cthulhu among the D&D set. But given these constraints I think Chaosium is doing a great job. I'd love to see them convince a streamer to launch a RQG campaign as that could bring in a lot of people. 

On the financial side too it's worth noting that more books are sold than actually played. Having it double as an art book is pretty nice for those isolated people who don't have the chance to actually play it.

EDIT: Apologies for the wall of text! feel free to skim or skip

Edited June 14, 2018 by Gene M.

[creativehum]

3 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

It seems like I'm one of the few, if not the only on around here is isn't in awe of RQG, and I also happen to be the one who hasn't seen the art. There could be a connection. 

First, for clarity, I'm not in "awe" of RQG. I've never played RQ, and have only played a little bit of HQG. (That said, one of my favorite convention games was a one-shot I ran of HQG a few years back.)

So I'm curious about RQG. It looks great. As a huge fan of Pendragon I love the integration of the Passions/Runes in RQG and looking forward to seeing if the game as a whole will work with my group. I think it will fly, but we'll see! So, I want to make it clear that the mechanics/rules really are very important to me.

It sounds like the game might be a tough sell for your group. I'm not really sure wha the game/setting could do to change that. Though, as has been mentioned, a free, complete, and interesting introductory Quickstart that introduces the rules and the setting certainly seems like a way to test the waters.

As for my group, I've been running a Lamentations of the Flame Princess game (essentially Basic D&D), and we have played Cyberpunk 2020, the Shadowrun setting using the HeroQuest rules, a fantasy Rome game and a kids-in-a-magic-school game both using Powered by the Apocalypse engine, Unknown Armies 3rd Edition, Star Wars: Edge of the Empire, Warhammer Fantasy Roleplaying 1st edition, among others. I'm probably running a Classic Traveller mini-campaign in a few weeks. So, by definition, we're willing to try lots of things. For this reason I think RQG might work.

The thing that's holding me back is me. I'm currently reading Herodotus' The Histories, want to read Gilgamesh, and want to track down a copy of Four Thousand Years Ago for a reasonable price... because I know I'll be responsible for guiding my Players into a certain mindset... and I want to do it well. And that means steeping myself in a certain kind of thinking, culture, and worldview that is alien to most of us.

[Atgxtg]

2 minutes ago, Gene M. said:

 My main exposure to RuneQuest is only what's available through Chaosium right now.

Good! That's what I think we are all hoping to see. 

2 minutes ago, Gene M. said:

 When people talk about the superiority of such and such RQ3 rule, I just have to take your word for it! 

That's much more subjective. There is some division among the fanbase over which version of the D100 system is superior, especially between RQ2 and RQ3, doubly so if you bring up Glorantha.  And please, don't take my word for anything other than my word. 

 

2 minutes ago, Gene M. said:

You're saying that you're worried people won't even be aware of RQG. I mean, that's also a question of marketing and promotion.  It seems to me Chaosium has been trying to roll it out in a big way.

Maybe, but it hasn't made so much as a ripple around here. 

2 minutes ago, Gene M. said:

On the financial side too it's worth noting that more books are sold than actually played. 

Yeah, and IMO that's a very very bad thing. Now there are RPG companies producing RPGs with little or no intent of their actually being played. Mongoose is pretty much based on that idea. 

 

[Atgxtg]

9 minutes ago, creativehum said:

First, for clarity, I'm not in "awe" of RQG. I've never played RQ, and have only played a little bit of HQG. (That said, one of my favorite convention games was a one-shot I ran of HQG a few years back.)

Agfain good. I think it's the new players that will make the difference in the long run. Just doubling the ranks of RQ players could do a lot.

9 minutes ago, creativehum said:

It sounds like the game might be a tough sell for your group. I'm not really sure wha the game/setting could do to change that.

No harder than Pendragon was, and they used to show up on my doorstep for an impromptu session. What will sell it to my group is me, running it. Nothing in the rulebook will do it. Not until they actually see it in play. And that's not because I'm better at running it that anyone else, just that I'm the only one who will run something other than D&D. Luckily though, they are my problem. 

9 minutes ago, creativehum said:

The thing that's holding me back is me. I'm currently reading Herodotus' The Histories, want to read Gilgamesh, and want to track down a copy of Four Thousand Years Ago for a reasonable price... because I know I'll be responsible for guiding my Players into a certain mindset... and I want to do it well. And that means steeping myself in a certain kind of thinking, culture, and worldview that is alien to most of us.

Year Glorantha can be a bit intimidating.I went though something similar with Pendragon , reading all sorts of Arthurian literature. Enthusiasm goes a long way.  

[David Scott]

1 hour ago, Atgxtg said:

But does anybody play an RPG because of it's looks? Do they run a campaign because of it?

Yes, that certainly goes on at my club. I bought into Exalted because of it's art, they even brought out an art book. Numenera looks amazing too, one of the guys in our group got that and ran a campaign, John Carter of Mars - I went in to that because the art looked amazing. New TORG also looks fantastic, I saw it at UKGE, I didn't go for hard copy as I don't have the room, but the PDFs are fantastic. So call me shallow, yes I play RPGs because of how they look. 

[David Scott]

1 hour ago, Atgxtg said:

I haven't seen it, but apparently it's gorgeous.

Have you not subscribed to get the samples and seen them?

[creativehum]

26 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

What will sell it to my group is me, running it. Nothing in the rulebook will do it. Not until they actually see it in play.

That's true of all RPGs in all situations.

I believe I am becoming confused by what your concern or problem is.