Questions about lunarized Dara Happans

[Tarumath]

How pervasive is the lunar influence in Dara Happa?

Are most people there normal Dara Happans, worshippers of Lodril, Yelm and Buserian,etc...with only a few Lunars existing in parallel? 

How socially acceptable is it to join the Lunar religion and trying the climb up the social ladder of the empire? (Isn't Dara Happa just the local government? so you need to become a Irripi Ontor initiate instead of a Buserian to be part of the greater lunar administration, same with Yanafal Tarnils for being an officer,etc...?)

Is that different depending on your social class? How accepting the average family of a Noble would be of him or her joining a lunar cult and trying their chance in the Empire?

What kinds of jobs and also lunar gods would attract noble types? 

[David Scott]

 

1 hour ago, Tarumath said:

How pervasive is the lunar influence in Dara Happa?

Completely, the Red Emperor is the emperor of Dara Happa, he is the highest authority in the land.

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Are most people there normal Dara Happans, worshippers of Lodril, Yelm and Buserian,etc...with only a few Lunars existing in parallel? 

They are all Pelorians. Half of pelorians are Dara Happan. If you have the Guide this is all covered in the Pelorian section.

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How socially acceptable is it to join the Lunar religion and trying the climb up the social ladder of the empire?

Very. Everyone is part of the Lunar religion, the Red Emperor is the son of yelm. 

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(Isn't Dara Happa just the local government? so you need to become a Irripi Ontor initiate instead of a Buserian to be part of the greater lunar administration, same with Yanafal Tarnils for being an officer,etc...?)

You can but there Is Great scope for solar worshippers. 

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Is that different depending on your social class?

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Pelorian society is extremely stratified and divided into Noble, Witnesses and Officers, Headmen, Workers, and Slaves. At the very top are the Red Emperor and his household, who are considered living deities. The Dara Happan nobility is descended from Yelm, and important priestly and leadership roles are restricted to this hereditary caste. A few dozen ranking families hold most wealth and have family connections in the Imperial Government. The Witnesses and Officers are the lesser aristocracy of minor priesthoods, bureaucrats, and officers. 

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How accepting the average family of a Noble would be of him or her joining a lunar cult and trying their chance in the Empire?

 Very. Pelorian society is very right on. An equal opportunity employer.

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What kinds of jobs and also lunar gods would attract noble types? 

Any and all. Have a look at strangers in Prax and the Lunar coders for examples if you have access to it. 

The Gloranthan sourcebook has the redline history of the empire which covers the evolution of the empire and its parts. 

[Darius West]

So lets reverse that question.  How much resistance, overt and covert, is there by Solar religions to having been taken over by the Lunars?  It is pretty normal for the cities to be the haven of the invader culture and the rural areas to be havens of the older religion.  On the God Wall, if I am not mistaken, Rufelza is a minor rebellious deity in the Solar pantheon.  That would mean that there must be Solar Worshippers who are well aware that the current situation is not what their sky rune deities envisaged.  No doubt the local government Solar councilors do what they can to prevent a red-wash of the solar religions.  I would imagine that the Red Moon has a lot of trouble governing Alkoth, given the worship of Shargash there.  No doubt much depends upon tax rate, with many potential rebels waiting for the central government to have to raise taxes before they make their move.  Now while arguably the Red Moon is a very progressive force in Glorantha, that merely makes them more intolerable to the immensely conservative Solar pantheon.  While the situation is probably better than it was during the EWF in Dara Hapa, as the Lunar Empire has been there longer, there will be issues.  It may even be that the Solar worshipers will take extreme exception to the White Moon cult, as it is like the Red Moon only "worse".  Without doubt however, for the majority of people in Dara Happa, life under the Lunars is peaceful and relatively prosperous. 

[Joerg]

4 hours ago, Tarumath said:

How pervasive is the lunar influence in Dara Happa?

Attempts to change the patriarchal structure of the society have failed, like stated for the city of Red Fish (home city of the Farquinils family, represented by Anqus, the Provincial Master of Wagons.

Many of the top tier families of the Lunar nobility were founded by (or recognized as) children of the Red Emperor, but ancient Yelmite families persist, under their ancestral names, even if they may have accepted wives from such houses (but then, getting a presentable Dendaran out of those dens of iniquity is a mite difficult).

From what I have seen, a lot of the Lunar clans receive their status mainly from descent from the Emperor while maintaining something like a Lodrilite or maybe Turosi family structure. Nonetheless, by virtue of the offices held by members of these families, they move in the upper stratum of Dara Happan society.

Even in heavily Yelmite families like the Assiday of Raibanth, notorious through former Provincial Governor Generals Euglyptus the Fat and Tatius the Bright, either of whom should have earned the title "Destroyer of Armies", there are leading individuals who invest strongly into Lunar magics, even though that means that they get to put up with Lodrili or even Spolite lowlives elevated beyond their status by Lunar liberation.

 

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Are most people there normal Dara Happans, worshippers of Lodril, Yelm and Buserian,etc...with only a few Lunars existing in parallel? 

I would expect the vast majority of rural Dara Happans to follow the traditional cults. In the cities, there are Lunar worshippers on all strata of the society, from slaves and indentured penance through unwashed mobs to highly sophisticated aesthetes. The White Moon movement possibly appeals to certain parts of classic Dara Happan population besides to the normal moonies.

 

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How socially acceptable is it to join the Lunar religion and trying the climb up the social ladder of the empire? (Isn't Dara Happa just the local government?

I suppose that depends strongly on your sponsoring house. There is bound to be a mid-level population of Yelmic and Buserian-worshipping families who do their utmost to hinder such parvenus from competing for their prize positions, but in the end higher level patrons have the say who is going to serve in which position.

But then becoming a direct retainer of a noble house makes an individual eligible as a casualty in a Dart Competition.

 

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so you need to become a Irripi Ontor initiate instead of a Buserian to be part of the greater lunar administration, same with Yanafal Tarnils for being an officer,etc...?)

First of all, you need to serve the right sponsor.

From the discussion about the Sylilan satrap family, it looks like a position in the Provincial Government requires good ties to the Assiday, the Errio-unit or the Eel-Ariash family, or one of their major retainers.

This actually makes me wonder about Jorkandros Blinder, the Yuthuppan Untarl family appointee put in charge of containing the Whitewall siege while Fazzur took Karse and the rest of Heortland. Was he an Assiday dependant designed to fail, or from a rival house of the Assiday?

 

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Is that different depending on your social class? How accepting the average family of a Noble would be of him or her joining a lunar cult and trying their chance in the Empire?

The family would surely expect any scion entitled to remain a Yelmite to do so, and to take Lunar cults or schools on the side. How else could such a person do their dynastic duty? The Dara Happan Yelmic houses with the strongest Anti-Lunar sentiments would have been weeded out after the Jannisor Rebellion, perhaps with the exception of Alkothi families.

 

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What kinds of jobs and also lunar gods would attract noble types? 

The typical job for a Yelmic noble is Overseer, assistant or chief bureaucrat/justice of a city, a stretch of land, a government branch, some imperial privilege, or administration of family resources (much the same list). Then there are courtiers and/or diplomats, lobbyists for the family interests, or those of the Empire. (Of course the family serves the Empire, as the Empire services the family.)

Representation is a sacred duty, and may be a full time job to a significant portion of the nobility (although that overlaps with the post as a courtier). Marriage alliances fall into this branch of "occupation", too.

Unlike the Red Emperor, few Yelmic Dara Happans would participate in the Dorkath rites, but participation in the Imperial Orgy that has been maintained by the Mask Argenteus for most of his reign is a different thing. Probably reserved for those who got sevened by the Lunar religion or by older, Nysaloric practices, though.

Other than that, read up on the misadventures of Jaxarte Whyded by MOB.

http://rpgreview.net/mob/jaxintro.htm

Edited June 27, 2018 by Joerg
Home city of the Assiday

[jrutila]

I have to mention this product: http://d101games.com/product/gloranthan-adventures-2-red-sun-rising/

It is an adventure campaign of Lunar heroes in Dara Happa. It depicts the city of Serris (not canon, btw) where the inner tension rises from the three associations. One of them is a fully Lunar association, one is conservative and strictly non-Lunar and the last one is the leading one for the heroes. It is accepting Lunarization but struggles inside with the influence balance. The city is built before Lunars and all the Lunar action is packed into their own part of the city (actually it is outside the city walls). The military, on the other hand, is fully lead by Lunars. This setting is great for gaming purposes as there is always someone fully embracing the lunar way, someone oppressing it and someone in the middle. There is no full rebellious activity like in Dragon Pass.

We have ongoing PbF game of Red Sun Rising campaign at http://rpol.net/game.cgi?gi=70164 if you are interested in reading about lives of aspiring Lunar nobles in a Dara Happan city.

[soltakss]

I always think of there being several types of people in Darra Happa:

Traditional dyed-in-the-wool Sun worshippers, who belong to the Old families and stick rigidly to their ways. They have accepted The Red Emperor as thei Emperor because he is and because he has proven himself to be the Emperor depite any moves against him. They don't adhere to the Lunar Way but are not particularly opposed to it.

Lodrili Peasants - As peasants everywhere, they don't fundamentally care about who is in charge or what beliefs they bring, but carry on being oppressed and taxed until they call on Monster Man to help them.

Pelandans - Always a bit of a mystery to me, they probably continue with their deities, who live on a mountain, paying lip service to the Lunars.

Provincials - A mix of people sticking to their old ways, people accepting the new ways but keeping many of the old ways and people gleefully accepting the new ways with open arms.

Lunars - People who have accepted the new ways, or whose ancestors have accepted the new ways. They find the new ways liberating, as they can break caste, gender and social taboos and restrictions, improving themselves in new ways.

 

I am sure there are many other groups who behave in many different ways.

What is clear to me is that not everyone in Peloria is a Lunar, in fact, true Lunars may well be in a minority.

[Joerg]

9 hours ago, soltakss said:

I am sure there are many other groups who behave in many different ways.

Even if you just take a look at the Gods Wall you see the mi of non-Dara Happan deities making an appearance, more than mentioned in the Muster of Murharzarm/Urvairinus depictions of similar age.

From a Lunar novel fragment Greg read at Convulsion (I think 1998), the weeders (who appear in the Six Ages tutorial I saw on YouTube) are still around in the Lunar Empire, part of the (lowest) Dara Happan stratum, a kind of non-feathered, non-beaked durulz with their way of life and available resources. You may encounter such people in the cities only occasionally, visiting the market, but they don't usually exert much if any influence on politics while remaining in their cultural niche.

It appears to be possible to become Lunar to some extent and still maintain the original cultural niche, but the consequence of riddle illumination appears to be the formation of urban mobs with at best semi-digested encounters of the Ultimate following spiritual teachers of varying insights. The Fortunate Succession mentions several such outbreaks, among those the Spolite fad which led to a dynastic split in the Empire.

 

The Pelandans are a kind of meta-culture where each city has quite distinctive cultural features, a diversity similar to the East Isles, with everyday deities varying but a set of Jernotian High Gods (more than seven, though) held in common.

More than one of the Jernotian High Gods are claimed as precursor (and ongoing) incarnations of Sedenya.

 

There also appear to have been phases where Dara Happan yelmic nobility was actively recruited to replace a former urban dynasty outside of Dara Happa, a bit like the 19th century Greek monarchy importing rulers from the multitude of German principalities, or the onw of rhw East Germanic tribes looking for suitable nobles to lead them from their distant homelands in the north after their dynasty died out during the Migration Age.

 

[jajagappa]

3 hours ago, Joerg said:

the weeders (who appear in the Six Ages tutorial I saw on YouTube) are still around in the Lunar Empire, part of the (lowest) Dara Happan stratum

I have a copy of Greg's document on the Weeders, and they are the riverfolk of Darjiin, Henjarl, and extending to Saird.  They follow the heron goddesses and are adept at the use of reeds for daily life (often to the exclusion of even making clay vessels).  As you note, they retain their distinctive cultural niche living off the marshes and rivers.

[soltakss]

Yeah, I remembered the Heron-worshipping peasants, but really included them in the Lodrili, but they should be separate. However, they are not particularly Lunarised, either.

[Tcneseis]

On 6/27/2018 at 1:34 PM, Joerg said:

Many of the top tier families of the Lunar nobility were founded by (or recognized as) children of the Red Emperor,

Isn't he chosen among one of many competing families after Sheng Seleris's empire?

Some may have connections with the former Red Emperor's family. I think he reigned for about 200 years or more.

 

[jajagappa]

25 minutes ago, Tcneseis said:

Isn't he chosen among one of many competing families after Sheng Seleris's empire? 

Some may have connections with the former Red Emperor's family. I think he reigned for about 200 years or more.

If you mean the Red Emperor, then beginning with the Mask of Magnificus when he destroyed Sheng Seleris, the body of the Red Emperor is believed to be chosen from among the Egi who come from the various Imperial families, and most are likely also to be among his sons.  But the Red Emperor is still the Red Emperor and is more than just a body - as the son of the Red Goddess he always remembers himself.

GtG p.295: "The Egi are those chosen by the Goddess to contribute to the Red Emperor. The names, precise number, and types of the Egi are not known. Nor is it known how they contribute to the Red Emperor. It is known that the Egi reside on the Moon as Lunar Immortals and some have palaces in the Lunar realm."