Identifying Crystals using spells

[Stefano Muret]

Hello everybody,

I've a question about how to identify a Crystal using spells. In the Appendix 2 of the Adventure Book the following rule is stated: "The only way to tell if a crystal is powered is by attempting
to attune it, as described below."

This makes me think that you can't identify a Magic crystal using the Rune Spell Analyze Magic.

Is this correct ?

Are there spells from other magic systems to identify magic items. It seems a bit odd that a Sorcerer has no spell to understand if an item is magic and what kind of magic it has.

Thanks

 

 

[PhilHibbs]

If it is correct, it's not a big problem. The only danger is that you might lose some POW trying, or that the crystal might be tainted with chaos (so get the Storm Bulls to check it first). If you already have a powered crystal attuned that you would rather keep, it's trivial to attune it a second time.

[Anunnaki]

Hiya @Stefano Muret,

IMG (In My Glorantha), I allow Analyze Magic to be used on crystals. YGWV (Your Glorantha Will Vary), as always.

Analyze Magic is a Rune Magic spell, and specifically it's a Lhankor Mhy (or Lhankor Mhy-supplied) spell. If the god of Knowledge can't find out if something is magical, well ...  If a character wants to spend Rune Points analyzing a crystal to determine its effects, that's a perfectly valid use for those points, IMO.

IMG, one point of Analyze Magic will only tell you that the crystal is a magic crystal (as opposed to a normal crystal). A second point of Analyze Magic (cast at the same time, per the spell description) will also tell you what kind of crystal it is. And so on. Note that a Flawed crystal will likely project as a magic crystal of an appropriate type, in appropriately GM-tricksy ways. As @PhilHibbs noted above: get your magic crystal checked out by Chaos experts first if you are concerned.

As noted in the Adventure Book, magic crystals are not subject to Divine Intervention, so maybe praying to your deity for DI and having your otherwise-successful request rejected might be an option for some? You can take the path of grabbing a large boulder or hammer and trying to smash the crystal -- you would know it's a magic crystal if it doesn't break. Then again, if it's a non-magical crystal worth beaucoup money, you just pounded it into worthless fragments.  

The topic also raises the question: Can you outright tell if a crystal is a magic crystal or not? These are the blood of the gods, after all. Personally, I don't differentiate magic crystals from normal crystals in my games -- when attuned, they glow, and that's the "oh, wow, magic!" part. Until you determine it's a magic crystal, it's just a crystal. That's how they end up in various stashes, after all, as treasure. Your Glorantha may treat them differently, of course, and that's the great thing about Greg's generous gift to us all: we get to play in his sandbox as "we" want.

Anyways, hope this helps!

Kind regards, James

 

Edited May 6, 2019 by Anunnaki

[David Scott]

2 hours ago, Stefano Muret said:

"The only way to tell if a crystal is powered is by attempting
to attune it, as described below."

I'd certainly allow Analyse Magic to reveal a Powered Crystal. However you'd probably need more than one point of it as described in the spell. This will depend of course how you play the spell. I'd say

1 point

would reveal powered (not type) or POW storing (not amount)

2 points

Powered Crystal - would reveal type, but not strength

POW storing - if flawed.

3 points

Powered Crystal - would reveal if flawed.

3 hours ago, Stefano Muret said:

Are there spells from other magic systems to identify magic items.

There may be unique spells available from spirit cults that shaman may have access to, that may be created by the GM or appear in future publications. 

3 hours ago, Stefano Muret said:

It seems a bit odd that a Sorcerer has no spell to understand if an item is magic and what kind of magic it has.

The current rules give only examples of spells, I'm sure something useful will appear in a future Malkioni supplement. However using the available rules, it's easy construct one based on Creating New Spells page 390.

Deep Analysis, Command & Truth, 2 points, Touch, Active, Temporal. Every 4 points of Strength reveals 1 fact about an object. 5 minutes is needed per fact so the spell will need its duration extended.

[Shiningbrow]

Is there a blatantly obvious reason why Detect Magic wouldn't work to tell you whether it's magical or not?

Also, Sorcerous Pierce Veil specifically states: "Thus, the spell could distinguish a POW crystal from a spirit bound in a POW crystal,..."

Similarly, Soul Sight: "This spell allows the recipient to see both the POW aura of the living and to magically know the actual current magic points of other things and creatures,..." (my emphasis). So, if Soul Sight is more powerful than spirit and sorcery, then it should pick up better as well.

And, thus, Analyze Magic, as a cult specific Rune spell of the god of knowledge, should tell you with the first point what the crystal would do... (but, not whether it's flawed or chaotic).

[Joerg]

17 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

Is there a blatantly obvious reason why Detect Magic wouldn't work to tell you whether it's magical or not?

A dead crystal is magical - you can store MP or spirits inside. Live crystals are even more magical, but Detect Magic is qualitative, not quantitative.

 

17 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

Also, Sorcerous Pierce Veil specifically states: "Thus, the spell could distinguish a POW crystal from a spirit bound in a POW crystal,..."

At close range, and it is a three point spell.

 

17 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

Similarly, Soul Sight: "This spell allows the recipient to see both the POW aura of the living and to magically know the actual current magic points of other things and creatures,..." (my emphasis). So, if Soul Sight is more powerful than spirit and sorcery, then it should pick up better as well.

So a crystal has 14 MP. Is either a spirit or a live crystal part of the living, or is Soul Sight limited to the MP? Can it discern between a dead crystal inhabited by a spirit and one just full of MP?

Soul Sight is a one point rune spell - less force than Pierce Veil, less information.

17 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

And, thus, Analyze Magic, as a cult specific Rune spell of the god of knowledge, should tell you with the first point what the crystal would do... (but, not whether it's flawed or chaotic).

For that test, you need a Storm Bull...

Are there any Storm Bull Sword Sages?

[Shiningbrow]

10 minutes ago, Joerg said:

A dead crystal is magical - you can store MP or spirits inside. Live crystals are even more magical, but Detect Magic is qualitative, not quantitative.

Thus, Detect Magic should tell you it's a magic crystal, not a piece of rock - which was the original question. After that, take it to an LM... the idea being, don't waste the Analyze Magic until after the Detect Magic...

 

At close range, and it is a three point spell.

Close range if not adjusted. But, I figured we're talking about a crystal that's in your hand...

 

So a crystal has 14 MP. Is either a spirit or a live crystal part of the living, or is Soul Sight limited to the MP? Can it discern between a dead crystal inhabited by a spirit and one just full of MP?

"This spell allows the recipient to see both the POW aura of the living ..."

So, I'd say, you'd get a very different aura read off a dead crystal to one that's powered. Spirits shouldn't still be trapped within a crystal if the previous binder is now dead.

 

Soul Sight is a one point rune spell - less force than Pierce Veil, less information.

Rune Magic is worth a minimum of 2 points of sorcery... I"m not suggesting that Soul Sight tells you everything about teh crystal, but should tell you whether it's a powered crystal or not...

 

For that test, you need a Storm Bull...

Are there any Storm Bull Sword Sages?

 

Possible... but not Associated Cults. However, an Orlanthi could initiate into StormBull for the Sense Chaos, and get LM's Analyze Magic...

(response in blue above - so if you haven't turned it on, you'll need to read between the lines)

[PhilHibbs]

4 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

(response in blue above - so if you haven't turned it on, you'll need to read between the lines)

which makes it harder to quote you...

4 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

Thus, Detect Magic should tell you it's a magic crystal, not a piece of rock - which was the original question.

The original question was telling between a powered and an unpowered crystal.

[Anunnaki]

Thanks for the discussion. I thought I might be erring on the side of "too harsh" in my game, so am going to allow more info for less (so to speak), in terms of Rune Points.

[Shiningbrow]

34 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

The original question was telling between a powered and an unpowered crystal.

Fair enough. My bad.

[soltakss]

50 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

(response in blue above - so if you haven't turned it on, you'll need to read between the lines)

If you highlight a section and press the Quote button that appears, then you can quote sections of a post.

You can even highlight a quoted section and it gives both quote and response.

[Bill the barbarian]

14 hours ago, Anunnaki said:

The topic also raises the question: Can you outright tell if a crystal is a magic crystal or not? These are the blood of the gods, after all. Personally, I don't differentiate magic crystals from normal crystals in my games -- when attuned, they glow, and that's the "oh, wow, magic!" part. Until you determine it's a magic crystal, it's just a crystal. That's how they end up in various stashes, after all, as treasure. Your Glorantha may treat them differently, of course, and that's the great thing about Greg's generous gift to us all: we get to play in his sandbox as "we" want.

 

Not sure how canonical but you have a healthy disregard I see so...

I like it. it;s simple enough to be good rules, sensible and seems to be in the spirit of Glorantha. And explains the careless seeming way they end up with other crystals. That's four good reasons and no negatives I can think of. Hmm, thanx for sharing... have fun!

[Alexandre]

On 5/6/2019 at 12:08 PM, PhilHibbs said:

The only danger is that you might lose some POW trying, 

For some players I know this is worse than growing a third arm because of a chaotic feature 😉