ORtrail Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 Dagnabit, pard. If yuh had to include them thar Red Skins, the least yuh coulda done is include their scores and stats! Hangin' is too good for uh! Washington Redskins Various groups have spent decades trying to get the NFL to change the Washington Redskins name. But in the spirit of your post.... ....the author didn't stat up the Dallas Cowboys either, right? If he did, then we have blatant racism! :eek: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sumtara Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 For the time period you're presenting, "American Indian" and "Indian" were commonly used. Still used today too, even though Columbus got it wrong everyone understands who we are talking about in a western setting. Being true to the setting would mean using these terms, along with the more negative "Red Skins", with some "savages" and "heathens" thrown in for good measure. "Native" in the sense of being the original inhabitants as compared to the Europeans who came later seems to have been seldom used for the time period we are talking about, unlike today. Let me say again, I've got no doubt you worked hard to create an exciting and interesting book for BRP, lets just call this constructive criticism. If you do an expansion or revision for Aces High, please at least think this issue over. I agree with ORtrail all game supplements should conform to the D&D/Stargate/Xena paradigm that race should not be mentioned and that all communities in the setting be made up of an even mix of White, Brown, Black and Yellow people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrJealousy Posted March 12, 2009 Author Share Posted March 12, 2009 ...all communities in the setting be made up of an even mix of White, Brown, Black and Yellow people. This is interesting. One of the ideas that was rejected for Aces High was describing race based on skin colour. So that in Race: on the character sheet you would write either white, yellow, black or red. Quote Mr Jealousy has returned to reality! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrJealousy Posted March 12, 2009 Author Share Posted March 12, 2009 If you do an expansion or revision for Aces High, please at least think this issue over. Yes. I honestly didn't consider the fact that Red Skins would be offensive, or as offensive as it seems to be. I guess, at least partly, because that was a term that came up very early on in the development of Aces High. I had just gotten used to it and had stopped considering the implications. Familiarity breeds contempt? Maybe. But in future I will certainly be choosing my expressions with a little more fore thought... The last thing I wanted to do was actually insult a group of people that have already been heavily abused, and a group of people that I actually admire at that. Quote Mr Jealousy has returned to reality! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrJealousy Posted March 12, 2009 Author Share Posted March 12, 2009 the least yuh coulda done is include their scores and stats! Ah coulda. But ah reckoned yuh could work it out fer yuhself. And its a big subject, just ripe for a book in itself. What do you suggest I call it? I think 'Aces High: Red Skins' is off the table now... Quote Mr Jealousy has returned to reality! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sumtara Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 Just came across this in the Timeline; 1870 American Civil War ends. ???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrJealousy Posted March 12, 2009 Author Share Posted March 12, 2009 Just came across this in the Timeline; 1870 American Civil War ends. ???? Oops! That's two ;-( Quote Mr Jealousy has returned to reality! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORtrail Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 Yes. I honestly didn't consider the fact that Red Skins would be offensive, or as offensive as it seems to be. I guess, at least partly, because that was a term that came up very early on in the development of Aces High. I had just gotten used to it and had stopped considering the implications. Familiarity breeds contempt? Maybe. But in future I will certainly be choosing my expressions with a little more fore thought... The last thing I wanted to do was actually insult a group of people that have already been heavily abused, and a group of people that I actually admire at that. I know I could have done a better job of communicating my concerns, but thanks for listening. But screwing up the Civil War? You'll burn for that!! :eek: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byron Alexander Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 But screwing up the Civil War? You'll burn for that!! :eek: Nah, he's British. We'll already burn for screwing up the war of independence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrJealousy Posted March 12, 2009 Author Share Posted March 12, 2009 Ok, I admit thats quite disappointing, all that research, didn't I read what i wrote, what a cock up! I'm thinking now that the first add on will be "Aces High: American Civil War 1861-1870"! I can do that! That'd be cool :cool: Anyway, 9 years is the length of a proper Civil War. If you're gonna burn, you're gonna burn.>:-> Quote Mr Jealousy has returned to reality! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sumtara Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 Oops! That's two ;-( I thought you had come up with some sort of alternative timeline. When I saw that I had a quick read through hoping I wouldn't find a reabilitated Confederacy like in Deadlands. Thankfully I didn't find it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrJealousy Posted March 12, 2009 Author Share Posted March 12, 2009 Haven't read Deadlands. I am reading 'The Guns of the South' by Harry Turtledove at the moment, which is fun but I think the war finishes early in that. What do they do in Deadlands? Quote Mr Jealousy has returned to reality! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al. Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 Nah, he's British. We'll already burn for screwing up the war of independence. In the words of Al Murray 'yeah they really cut the old umbilical cod with that one. Still talking English and still fighting on the same side as us' Quote Rule Zero: Don't be on fire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
threedeesix Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 In the words of Al Murray 'yeah they really cut the old umbilical cod with that one. Still talking English and still fighting on the same side as us' Yah, and Boston harbor still tastes like tea. >:-> Rod Quote Join my Mythras/RuneQuest 6: Classic Fantasy Yahoo Group at https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/RQCF/info "D100 - Exactly 5 times better than D20" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al. Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 Yah, and Boston harbor still tastes like tea. >:-> Rod good one Boston Harbour did you say? I've read (and this really goes under the 'any sentence beginning with the word 'apparently' is automatically going to be bollocks') that Tea as supped in Britain (although not by me as I cannot stand it) is China Tea transplanted to India and grown in those (very different) conditions as the demmed Chinese wouldn't give into British demands for enough Tea and there was a shortage (by gad) even after fighting a war to force them to take Opium ('go on, its good for you really') in exchange. Anyone know if that's true or I've suckered (again) Al Quote Rule Zero: Don't be on fire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al. Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 Yah, and Boston harbor still tastes like tea. >:-> Rod good one Boston Harbour did you say? I've read (and this really goes under the heading 'any sentence beginning with the word 'apparently' is automatically going to be bollocks') that Tea as supped in Britain (although not by me as I cannot stand it) is China Tea transplanted to India and grown in those (very different) conditions as the demmed Chinese wouldn't give into British demands for enough Tea and there was a shortage ('by gad') even after fighting a war to force them to take Opium ('go on, its good for you really') in exchange. Anyone know if that's true or I've been suckered (again) Al Quote Rule Zero: Don't be on fire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORtrail Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 Haven't read Deadlands. I am reading 'The Guns of the South' by Harry Turtledove at the moment, which is fun but I think the war finishes early in that. What do they do in Deadlands? I remember reading that back in 1993. Great read that got me interested in alternate history, and actually taught me more about the Civil War than school ever did. BTW, for anyone with a copy of Aces High, uh.... When was the War of 1812? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilFord Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 I saw both when I purchased the hard copy last night. Rod The PDF wasn't on the Monographs front page with the hard copy, which is why I missed it. Now the proud owner of the pdf. Just need to find time to read it - Neil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMS Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 (edited) Oops! That's two ;-( Depending on where you live, it's still going on... Btw, I just ordered this, taking advantage of the 30% off sale. I bought it and Outpost 19, plus Sailing on the Seas of Fate (only Elric supplement I never bought) and Trollball, which I've been drooling over but hadn't talked myself into purchasing until it went a bit cheaper. Edited March 13, 2009 by RMS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sumtara Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 (edited) Haven't read Deadlands. I am reading 'The Guns of the South' by Harry Turtledove at the moment, which is fun but I think the war finishes early in that. What do they do in Deadlands? By 1879 the war is technically still going on but there is a truce. In a sickening side bar they get that pesky thing of rascim out of the way by having the Confederate States free slaves in 1865 and along the way they try to make it seem that Emancipation Proclamation was a political stunt by stating that it only applied to states that were in rebellion. Of course they fail to say anything about the fact the Northern states had already passed laws freeing slaves by 1859. Edited March 17, 2009 by sumtara fixed date Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pulpcitizen Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 Depending on where you live, it's still going on... Btw, I just ordered this, taking advantage of the 30% off sale. I bought it and Outpost 19, plus Sailing on the Seas of Fate (only Elric supplement I never bought) and Trollball, which I've been drooling over but hadn't talked myself into purchasing until it went a bit cheaper. I was going to hold off since I recently bought 'Berlin 61' and Ashes to Ashes and so had the postage costs to meet, but the sale grabbed me, so I have just bought Outpost 19 and Aces High. Shame the adventure book didn't have a print version also. Quote Very slowly working towards completing my monograph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrJealousy Posted March 14, 2009 Author Share Posted March 14, 2009 By 1879 the war is technically still going on ... Are you telling me whats going to happen in Guns of the South? Which I haven't finished reading yet! Quote Mr Jealousy has returned to reality! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORtrail Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 (edited) Whoops! Wrong thread. Edited March 14, 2009 by ORtrail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORtrail Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 Are you telling me whats going to happen in Guns of the South? Which I haven't finished reading yet! No, he must be talking about Deadlands. The war ends early in Guns of the South. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soltakss Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 I've just skimmed through this and it looks good. It contains just about the right mix of historical accuracy and mythic content. The Timeline is complete enough to have a lot of information but not overly oppressive, although it seems to have some innacuracies according to other posters here. The style is very much in keeping with the setting and nothing looks out of place. The backgrounds and professions are sufficiently stereotypical but not overly so. They contain enough to play a PC straight off. The description of religions is OK, but is a bit sketchy in places - it doesn't mention where the religions are widely worshipped (Catholicism in Spanish and French speaking areas, Mormons in Utah and California, Protestants in the East and so on) - the descriptions of Mormons as sitting for an hour in stoney silence doesn't really fit, but I'm a Mormon so I'm probably overly sensitive. The sections on Otherworld Powers and Arcane Lore are excellent, full of useful spells and powers. The bestiary covers a wide variety of beasties and contains the main ones you would expect. The mythical bestiary is even better, containing a number of mythical beasts, spirits and demigods. The equipment list looks fine to my untrained eye. There is a scenario, but I didn't really read it, in case I actually play in a Wild West game. All in all, this looks pretty good to me. It has a style that suits the setting. If you want a Wild West setting then this would be a good choice. Quote Simon Phipp - Caldmore Chameleon - Wallowing in my elitism since 1982. Many Systems, One Family. Just a fanboy. www.soltakss.com/index.html Jonstown Compendium author. Find my contributions here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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