Joerg

Glorantha is a world where people living in Kethaela or having left Kethaela for Dragon Pass are traumatized by the Dragonkill generations ago, even though the number of humans eaten by dragons is mainly the evil enemies and maybe a few survivors of the defenders left alive by them. The real trauma of the dragonkill to the Orlanthi was that the refugees were not allowed to return to their ancestral lands once the Invincible Golden Horde found its deserved resting place as ashes or in dragon intestines. It is different for the Pelorian side - the Balazaring citadel kings descended from the hero have that decisive moment in their development when their rise to greater cultural heights was rudely interrupted by a greedy raid going completely haywire. Peloria lost a generation of able-bodied men to their greed and revanchism. Similar for those Praxians and Wenelians who entered the Pass in search for easy exotic plunder, but the losses in manpower were much more limited. The Hendriki lost a king and his personal warband in the defense of the Pass - possibly buying time for human refugees against the incoming Golden Horde. There may have been a few survivors to this last stand action that fell prey to dragonfire, but the majority of th Famous or exotic ancestors define people's identity in the real world. There are US Americans who take pride in tribal Amerind ancestry, or who point to the pilgrim fathers they claim to be descended from, or who identify as a European ethnicity they have never lived with, except for their expat community several generations removed. A prominent politician in Germany claims Charlemagne as his ancestor.

Mountain Lion is another word for cougar (puma concolor), a very different breed of cat than panthera leo. Like cheetahs, cougars have closer relations to house cats than to the majority of the large felines of the genus Panthera (lion, tiger, leopard, jaguar, etc.). In Gloranthan terms, cougars are not descended from Basmol. Alynxes may be closer relatives, although there doesn't appear to be a separate feline ancestor other than Fralar, the Hykimi god of carnivores whose descendants include bears and dogs and all the other side lines like mustelidae. It isn't quite clear when Gloranthan taxonomy introduces a common ancestor of a subgroup. Bears and antlered deer have such a shared ancestor as an intermediate step, but the Hykimi ancestors of alynxes, bobcats and lions are as close to one another as they are to the ancestors of weasles, otters, badgers, or hyenas.

This is an interesting version of the Holy Country text in the RQ2 Companion, amended by a few paragraphs from I think the Glorantha Book of the Genertela Box (which were picked up in the Guide). It has a lot less detail than the regional history in the Guide, which inherits quite a few facts from the Stafford Library books. Kotor as a land of cultural exchange is an interesting take, after earlier mentions (e.g. in the Seshnelan Kings List) only presented the region as the battleground (or perhaps staging area) of the magical conflict between the God Learners and the EWF. For two groups apparently that much at odds with each other, one has to wonder why the small stretch of Kotor has so much bigger importance than the rather long border shared in Ralios. That's easily remedied with an earlier paragraph quoted from Jeff's 2nd Age Kethaela section: This gives a certain build-up time for the people inhabiting the ruins of the dragonspeaker cities (falling apart where the dragon magic failed to uphold them) to pack the necessities and move south, out of the way. I wouldn't be surprised if this influx of new refugees flared up another revival of Aventus' foreigner laws in Hendrikiland. Interestingly, it seems that about half of the Quivini immigrants from the south were Hendriki rather than other type clans that moved out of Belintar's new regime. At least at the time of writing up the various types of Orlanthi clans in WF15, maintaining a clan memory of one's origins from before the Kingdom of Orlanthland appears to have been the norm. Given the migration history of the Vandals, I wouldn't be surprised if only half of the people who took over Libya under Geiserich had ancestors from the region of modern Poland. The pre-Dragonkill displacement of population from the Pass is quite similar to the re-settlement of Polish nationals from what would become the Ukraine SSR to the areas abandoned by German nationals following WW2. Many a family with a refugee or forcible resettlement background will know how some (often slightly toxic) memories and desires for what was lost will be inherited by future generations. Refugees as well as other migrants tend to cluster in the places that offer them shelter, and to create quite conservative communities to deal with the change that was brought onto them with the relocation. How many European-descended North Americans will identify by their immigrant ancestors' European homelands despite having hardly any experience of modern life in those places? Back to Glorantha, it is quite possible that the majority of the people in Malkonwal is descended from the Orgorvaltes, Koroltes, Stravuli, Liornvuli, Vestantes etc.. Aventus' Foreigner Laws show clearly that already at the start of the fifth century, there were many immigrants not descended from the Garanvuli (like Hendrik and his followers) but from the more northerly Heortling tribes populating the Heortland Plateau, people who (futilely) fled the Bright Empire after the Battle of Night and Day, and again when the dragonspeakers started to establish themselves on the ruling council of Orlanthland, turning it into the EWF. Quite a few will have opted out of Isgangdrang's persecution of Old Way Traditionalists in the EWF and have chosen to take religious refuge with their cousins under the rule of the Only Old One. The famine of 1042 (exacerbated by the opportunistic raid of the Sairdite/Dara Happan/Carmanian anti-dragon coalition) would have sent waves of refugees south, too, after the draconic crops and livestock deteriorated and became unsustainable when the Dragonspeakers experienced their collective utuma and their magic faded away. The 78 years after the disintegration of the EWF saw a few minor new tribes in the region, and also an expansion of the Hendriki hegemony all the way into what later was known as Old Sartar. Even so, the amount of manpower the Hendriki king took with him to make a stand against the Invincible Golden Horde was minimal, compared to the degree of mobilisation of the Pelorian invaders. The immense Horde must have bared the lands they traversed like locusts, sending yet another wave of desperate last-minute refugees before them, fleeing certain starvation as the only alternative to enslavement or painful death as the northerners were bent on retribution for (2 or 3, at most) centuries of draconic domination (ending a century or two earlier). The Hendriki remained the dominant tribe in Heortland, but I would be surprised if their numbers approached 40% of the total Orlanthi population after the Dragonkill. They had also experienced a significant drain of manpower in the Adustment Wars in Esrolia, probably more so than the non-Hendriki Heortlanders. By these calculations, I would expect about ever sixth clan or bloodline in the non-Hendriki population of Heortland to be descended from Orgorvale and Ulanin, and a higher proportion among the non-Hendriki clans and tribes migrating into the ancient homelands of the Orgorvaltes tribe to move into Quiviniland. Clans with Koroltes or Stravuli ancestry may have ended up as Vendref. Even if personal memories of ancient holdings or deeds may fade away, those same memories reinforced with the desires of the ancestors (whether as nameless group or as individual ancstor spirit guides)

Interesting question - could the Windstop (with Orlanth and Ernalda temporarily dead, or at least as dead as in "she's not dead, she's sleeping) have caused live crystals to have become dead?

Leaving their floating homes sounds like a major change in lifestyle. Are you suggesting that the feathered boats were just a survival trick? Loons aren't exactly ratites, and neither are the stilting birds of the marshes (heron, stork, ibis, crane ..) I wasn't aware that all the weeder groups were descended from aquatic birds. The Yuthuppan area weeder (Greya?) did not appear to have any ties to a bird mother goddess. Still, a loon (as a swimming/diving bird) is quite different from those stilting ambush hunters. The weeders extend beyond the Yolp Mountains towards the Ezel River, as the rise of those volcanoes in the Storm Age separated the western part of Suvaria from the Oslir catchment area. I would have put down the Henjarli and Darjiinite bird-goddess spawn as wet farmers rather than subsistence hunter-fisher-gatherers, too. Especially the Surenslibites of Henjarl. I thought the Ratites were the plains nomads of the Golden Age, living like the Praxian Ostrich and Bolo Lizard folk, and occasionally going on a mongolian-like show of strength towards the sedentary folk (hence "Ratite Empire"). The Suvarians have been put down as the Heron Hegemony of the south-west. The Sourcebook puts one Heron Hegemony southwest of the Footstool - which describes Suvaria/Darjiin quite well. The God Learner maps in the Guide take the "southwest of the center" to mean southwest of the Spike, and place them somewhere near Slon, without much later evidence for there ever having been lots of herons in that area. What is more interesting is that he did not return as the same mask from that experience. The Red Emperor is a capital H Hero, with his own backdoor path out of Hell, which usually means that a violent end to his physical form, even in the digestive tract of someone else, doesn't mean he cannot return with his body intact from such an experience. Belintar underwent a similar re-appearance during his struggles with the Only Old One and his allies, after having been eaten, and without requiring anything like a Tournament of the Masters of Luck and Death (his equivalent to the Red Emperor taking on a new mask). until they reversed to the earlier wooden ship model. This was a postulation made in the Imperial Lunar Handbook (part 1, IIRC). Overall, that book does a better job describing the Pelorian cultures of an earlier age than the Lunar Empire.

I am still puzzled how the Waertagi managed to attack Jrustela during the Closing. That last message from Jrustela - "Damn the torpedos" - seems to suggest that they managed to do a ride-by out of Hell, past that continent, and down Magasta's Pool again.

The Guide corroborates that. P.711 I misremembered them having sailed on actual birds. I wonder how and why they disappeared.

The Olodo - the first humans to settle Jrustela after the Dawn - had been carried there on Waertagi ships, from Maniria. They moved onward to Umathela without Waertagi help/hindrance when the people of the sons of Nralar encroached on their territories. So yes - the Umathelan Orlanthi have Entruli origins.

In keeping with the maiden/mother/crone generational shift, both Voria and Babeester should be parthenogenetic births, with Orlanth being the adoptive father (or Ernalda's last lay before getting pregnant). Voriof may appear in Storm Age myths, as stand-in for Varnaval. But then, if you want to go for complicated twin births, take a look at poor Leda who bore twins to her Lacedemonian husband when Zeus seduced her in swan shape, resulting in her giving birth to two eggs, each of which hatched a pair of twins of the same sex with different fathers. Castor and Helen were the children of Zeus, while Polydeuces and Klytemnaestra were the children of her husband, IIRC. The girls went on to feature in the Troyan war, marrying a pair of brothers and then breaking their vows of fidelity, while the boys were heroes in their own right who somehow missed the fun before Troy.

Where do the Waertagi emerge from Hell? Passing through the Gates of Dawn seems to be impractical for a fleet of city-ships, so they will likely ride the upwelling current of the doughnut-shaped whirlpool and emerge somewhere on Sramak's Ocean. The Skyriver port described in The Eleven Lights quest is a possible first waystation, even if they refrain from sailing up the Sky River and plummeting down into Skyfall Lake. They might shanghai someone who is able to perform the Opening Ritual, or their sorcerers may learn the spell as described in the rules, upon contact there. According to the text in the Guide, they have already ferried over a Brithini army from Brithos to Arolanit when they join Guilmarn in his war on the Quinpolic League, but yes, Sog as their base of operation sounds likely. Or Brithos - we don't know whether Brithos has a drydock. Chances are that they do, maybe in Old Trade. In the end, getting access to their kin may give them renewed access to Sea Dragons, and the material to construct a fleet for themselves. But then, a good number of the Sog City Brithini may be blue-skinned Janubian River sailors rather than green-skinned high seas Waertagi. Yes . I would place that story even before the Vadeli conquest of Umathela and Fonrit. The Aftal story made it quite clear that trusting the Deri to that extent was fatal. The Windstop may have been the trigger. It is a world-wide effect which may even have touched on the seas of the Underworld.

Plenty of examples are available. Arim mated with Sorana Tor, and his children were thus demigods. Kallyr quested to the Pole Star, received her Starbrow, and became mother of a demigod son. Arkat was born during the Sunstop, allegedly to Humakt and a Brithini woman. Balazar's children from Rigtaina became dynastic ancestors for the three citadels. Whether or how far the mortal parent has to go into the Other Side may depend on the stature and manifestation of the deity in question. Also, whether the birth has to take place on the Other Side (or, in Arkat's case, the timelessness of the Sunstop).

Spoiler warning... The prophecy in the Guide is fairly clear by which time the Waertagi aid King Guilmarn in conquering the Quinpolic League - by 1623, Guilmarn has taken possession of the place, and in 1623 Harrek arrives from Jrustela, and conflict arises again. Argrath is involved in this, and so is his Agimori companion Hunralki from Jolar, mentioned in Argrath Saga, who may or may not emerge as the new leader of the Pithdarans. The Wolf Pirates plunder Noloswal, and Argrath comes away from there with "the Red Gold Knife". The Guide states that the Waertagi are countered by the Wolf Pirates. While Guilmarn apparently succeeds in securing Nolos and Pasos after the Wolf Pirates leave, we don't learn whether the Waertagi remain or not. There is no information whether refugee ships leave the Quinpolic League, possibly bound for Kethaela or Maniria, or for Jrustela, or Loskalm. Aamor - the exiled heir of Dangim - apparently was involved in the Waertagi finding Old Brithos, and would be among those betrayed by the Waertagi (if not the principal victim of that betrayal). There is some evidence for a Waertagi presence in Sog City later. The Grazer king Karndaro the Leaper, successor of Jandetin (who is instrumental in helping Argrath marry the FHQ prior to the Tarsh conquest) meets a Waertagi admiral there. The dates in the Seshnela timeline place the return of the underworld Waertagi before the raising of the Boat Planet in 1624, possibly making their return a prerequisite rather than a consequence. That "Aftal and the Waertagi" fragment which showed up in Missing Lands told us about Waertagi hold-overs in city-ships lashed together to form artificial islands unaffected by the Closing (as long as they stay immobilized). The brown Dormal men led to them by a Deri who bring destruction to Benel-Kayum may have been Vadeli.

And then the goddess of rodents would bless her critters with a Countermagic ability...

I did say that I can see the point in having a boxed starter set. I did say that I expect Chaosium to repeat AH, but to deliver at least RQ2 Trollpak value. And that I challenge you to exceed my expectations... But yes, planning regional supplements like Sartar or Esrolia as a box rather than a sourcebook does ring a few alarm bells. If printing boxes has become that cheap, then producing slipcases cannot be that expensive, and leaflets can be put into the slipcase. Using a harcover envelope would be a little nicer to look at and to use than the flimsy half-box of the GM screen, but that would be a luxury, and increase slipcase size. Other than that, the rulesbook + bestiary + screen-pack slipcase is a nice shelf item that looks great next to a coffee-table book on archaeology and the Guide slipcase. We had a similar conversation when I mused about the delivery of The Smoking Ruin. Since this is a deviation from that high quality hardcover trend, I piped up once again, and look and behold, here we are with good additional information.

Pelaskos and Poverri are said to be twins - Thunder Rebels p.236. The two ponies among her handmaidens might, too - Beseta and Besanga, Thunder Rebels p.32, though I have no idea whether they are daughters of the Green Woman.

The Argan Argar Atlas makes me assume that the highest mountain in the Slontos Isles is less than 300 m above sea level. Meetinghall Mountain is not shown anywhere on the maps. Is there a chance that Meetinghall has been pulled into the Mournsea during the Devastation of the Vent? Maybe Santorini is how it looks like in the Third Age.

If you want to stick to the Quickstart, the logical leader character would be Vasana, and from what was said at ImpCon2, she also stars in the upcoming solo adventure in the Starter box. IIRC, the box was "almost at the printer", which may mean availability when Chaosium opens their warehouses. As it seems to be printed in Eastern Europe, the distribution center in Poland ought to receive it early while the two North American ones, the Down Under one and the Brexited one will involve overseas delays. I'm curious whether the European distribution will be delayed until most overseas distribution centers have it. Having the physical components available probably is meant to get people playing with the full complement of game aids and material, which apparently comprise quite a bit of the content. I am curious how these new Chaosium boxes for RuneQuest will turn out. Avalon Hill's offerings often sold quite a bit of packaged air, with a few exceptions. RQ2 Troll Pak contained (shorter versions of) the content of RQ3 Troll Pak, 60% of the Troll Cults Book from the Troll Cults Box, and the scenarios "Into the Troll Realms" and "Haunted Ruins" which were reprinted as standalone booklets by Avalon HIll (mercifully receiving a durable cardboard cover page, unlike the AH box contents). My expectations are the amount of material and material production quality at least as for what RQ2 Trollpak delivered, only with the current standard of illustrations. But I challenge Chaosium to exceed these expectations... Not getting nice hardcovers is a strange turn of policy. Packaging dice with a slipcase set is hard, so I see the point in doing a starter set in boxes. But a mix of a hardcover, maybe a solid cardboard-covered stapled booklet or two and some loose material in a cardboard "envelope" (perhaps a content-less hardcover) in a slipcase might be a bit classier than boxes.

Does joining a citadel tribe incur any tribute demands by the citadel kings? Do clans that join one of those tribes receive preferential treatment when visiting the citadel (trading there)? The citadels don't serve as the religious center of the clans, but they do offer a modicum of specialist folk who can provide stuff the roaming shamans cannot. Some of that stuff magical, most of it material in nature. Joh Mith doesn't visit the various clan hearths, instead his son Djimm receives folk from those clans who want to trade for civilized goods. How territorial are those clans? While their dogs figure bigly in their culture and approach to hunting, the dogs don't set any migration patterns other than those of the prey humans and dogs take down in their cooperation.

The Old Pavisite families (e.g. those of Opili Hill) are the true heirs of the Jenarong Dynasty of Dara Happa, and after Sheng will have been replaced and Ralzakark vanquished, a Pavisite will lead Dara Happa out of the Hero Wars into new draconic splendor.

Merngala as queen of the Necropolis and wife of Heort and Panaxles is weird. P.34 of "Esrolia, land of 10k Goddesses" gives different details, among others giving the rivalry between Panaxles and Sestarto (a story which has been among us for decades). Sure, every male leader would have undergone a ritual year marriage with the leading Earth Queen at some time. Even Heort, who was married to the demigoddess Ivarne, may have extended his protection as the high king to Nochet through such a rite. As for him slaying Panaxles, if he did so, then jealousy would not have been the reason, rather a disagreement over where and what the Architect had built. Panaxles' suicide after his rage killing of Sestarto still makes the better story. Aram ya Udram and Vathmai as her boon companions are new - Aram held the Necklace of Kero Fin and had re-located to the Ivory Plinth at the Dawn, but he would have started from Esrolia when he chased Gouger. The name Vathmai has previously been a tribal name, part of the Lightbringers Missionary story when Lalmor brought the Lightbringers' methods to Maniria with force in the second century ST. Panaxles and the Shadow Plateau - I find it hard to believe that the obviously volcanic trunk of the plateau would have been an architectural feat. Axe Hall and Esrola's throne as features on the plateau I can see having been built by the Architect. But then the Esrolian interpretative sovereignty over their misdeeds that caused discord, death and even Chaos among their husband-protectors is quite blatant. Merngala as the founder goddess of Nochet is a bit weird, too - Nochet pre-existed her reign by a lot. She did reign during the resettlement of the city abandoned by Norinel, and the city wasn't abandoned afterwards (not even after the Devastation of the Vent), so having her as the city wyter might work out. But then the families hiding in the Blackmaw had not completely abandoned the city, either. I hope that "Sandpaper" is a spell checker alteration of "Sindpaper" and not the new official spelling... God Forgot - the Sixth of the Invisible God, or the Sixth of the Man Rune / the Humanist world view? And who slew Faralinthor? I have seen the names of Umath (a bit difficult, as Faralinthor appeared only after Umath's dismemberment), Vadrus, and now the Storm King. But then, in an Esrolian myth, things would be blamed on Orlanth. Ernalda's marriage to Orlanth is depicted as the deal with the lesser Devil, and no chance to give male agency bad reputation is left out. The Grandmothers' reign is based on what I see as a huge whitewash of their selfish betrayal in the face of fighting Chaos in the Sword and Helm Saga. Esrolia First! and the rest of the world may go to Chaos. Do we know the name of the Queen who betrayed Rastagar and whose actions invited Nontraya?

I always kept the modifier out of the scores - also because quite a few spirit magics could alter the modifier in RQ3, which was a feature I appreciated. The feature which sold me to RQ3 was that I could calculate anything on the fly with very few formulas, without the need to consult any tables. Even the Fibonacci sequence for ceremony increases... Keeping the unmodified skill value on the sheet was helpful for resolving skill checks, too. Easy to substract category bonuses rather than add... Cleaner math, throughout. I can accept the de-coupling between giant size and hit points - while that table was easy to calculate, its result at the upper range were a little weird. The "skills over 100%" problem started only in RQ3, I believe - RQ2 had Defense which would substract from those skill percentages, which could keep effective skill quite a bit lower than nominal skill.

Cloud beasts (sheep, rams, leopards) forego any wings. And Orlanthi flyers let their breaths carry them. Most feathered beings are sky creatures rather than storm creatures, like e.g. horses or the extinct Dara Happan gazzam (dinosaurs).

Once there were lion Hsunchen passing through Dragon Pass into Prax, but Tada slew and skinned their god, and only the bipedal ones survived in the chaparral. If there were any lions left in Dragon Pass, don't you think that the Basmoli Berserks would have replenished their companions from that source?

I keep wondering why Sandy's youtube channel is getting so few views. This episode should be of interest to the crowd here:

The accepted path for a mortal to become a fully fledged deity is to ascend, to leave the mortal existence behind. Examples of this include Vingkot, Pavis, Sartar and the Lunar ascended deities. Becoming a demigod (other than being born such) usually means to merge with a (manifest) divine existence, or (e.g. in case of Belintar) several of those. Individuals like Vingkot, Redaylde and Orgorvalte were born as demigods, but then ascended. Gods apparently feed on worship in order to influence the world (rather than just maintaining an otherworld existence). There are known cases of people ascending to an otherworld without much if any influence on the world, like for instance Moirades, although he may just be biding his time before becoming one of the Egi of his son with Jar-eel,