Joerg

You know, I was arguing from an atomistic approach. Runic inheritance. LaMarckian rules. The tribal elemental magic works on such inheritance lines, but at times it appears as if a new Elemental Ruler overwrites the previous atom. Orlanth's maternal lineage plays a major role in his relationship to his half-siblings by his mother - Inora, Quivin, Tara/Velhara, and of course Yinkin. I guess you inadvertently activated the Strikethrough format offered in the online editor, either through a key combination or a key misinterpreted as some form of tag. Possible workaround if the formatting cannot be undone via the edit window: copy the entire text, paste it into an external editor as unformatted text, then paste it into the forum editor.

This depends strongly on how you define Illumination. The Fortunate Succession is full of illuminates rising up for their official recognition, and illuminate thought spread to Spol, Carmania and remained simmering in Dara Happa under various guises before the Red Goddess bundled it all up. The Lives of Sedenya has a list of her previous incarnations that was discussed here. And that's just Nysaloran school illumination, without looking into the Arkati twist of that, and the inheritance that the Malkioneranists took from the Arkati with that weird book that served as their entry path into the Theist world of myths which might have been Arkati, Nysalorean, or straight Gbaji. Then there are other paths to Enligthenment, like the various draconic approaches (Godunya's, Obduran's (which is also Ingolf's), Immanent Mastery) and the non-draconic eastern ones such as various Kralori sages preceding Daruda, the Teshnann Chal, the Vormaini inheritance of Imperial Vithela and the East Isles Venfornic, Perfect Stillness as an outgrowth of Nenduren's Stillness, and Mashunasan's Void. And Larn Hasamador? Oh, Nothing. There appears to be a Blue Moon path to mysticism, too, if you look at the Master of Tides in Maslo, some Melibian stuff, the Ingareens in light of Belintar's dismemberment, and the weird accord between Blue Moon assassins and the Mass Utuma that ended the EWF in 1042. And if you think that the Agimori escaped such nonsense, they were part of the Blue Moon Empire, and Garangordos' system is probably as tied to mysticism as Sheng Seleris's empire. True. Enlightenment blocks tribalism or general altruism, or at least delays it to be executed deliberately rather than instinctively (or as a result of social priming). That makes for bad commando units that basically are an artificial entanglement of the individual's existence with that of his squad members. On the other hand, it makes for excellent snipers or tunnel fighters. I do wonder whether an Illuminate can use passions (like the Storm Bull Rage) as easily as non-illuminates can. From Oddi's exchange with Paulis, he appears unable to tap into that rage any more. Whether that affects his ability to go berserk via divine magic is yet another question (and I'd think that it doesn't). On the other hand, Argrath on his path to deeper insights appears to be able to harness passions beyond the normal human measure - perhaps as a consequence of draconic insights. And whatever Sheng and his disciples did appears to thrive on passions, too. Arkat being a zealot in whichever new cult he joined may be tied to passions, too.

Voriof is as much or as little an earth god as are Varnaval, the Praxian Founders or Waha. (And look where the Good Shepherd is listed in Nomad Gods... good or goof job making your point, Joerg.) Barntar has mostly earth related feats, except for his dragon fighting inheritance of the Aroka myth. Voriof has herd related feats, which is Earth at least once removed. By ancestry, Orlanth is mostly an earth god, too. He has but one grandmother (Gata) and two grandfathers (Larnste and Aether, who himself is a child of Earth). That's five eighths Earth. Any children of his from Ernalda are going to be even more earth tribe, and bastards of his like Vinkgot are still around 50% Earth by ancestry.

No, that's the other Kilimanjaro. Seriously, we have two Devils in the monomyth - Kajabor and Wakboth. One is the embodiment of entropy, the other one adds moral evil out of its parents' spite. And the implosion of the Spike that released Kajabor occurred after the assault of Wakboth, which makes it very clear who left the lid open (AND "forgot" to flush). While nobody can tell for certain, I think that the morally evil one was able to one-up the merely entropic one in their direct confrontation (mapped in Uz Lore, both editions of Troll Pak) and ended up being available for the Block to crush it while the entropically but not morally evil one ended up in Hell acting as his own sperm in fathering Time in perfectly normal arachnoid manner, just like Arachne Solara is volunteering herself to be consumed by her child. Certain Tarantula mothers never get to see their near adult spawn. This of course opens debates among Gloranthan metaphysicists speculating about whether there is something new ripening while Glorantha goes down the entropy spiral, and speculating what that might be.

While I do admire the art of the complete books, when it comes to reference, I do prefer a more modular approach, too, with images and maps as additional info to the text or infographic. Your approach telling us we are welcome to create such personal copies - potentially "cut out" ones for re-ordering along our preferences - is quite generous in the current copyright rent collecting era. It only has the downside of being unable to share the work done in a legal way.

Basically any piece of iron that has undergone smithing or milling can be considered steel. Even a piece of de-carbonized iron gets re-carbonized when smithed in a charcoal or coke fire. Warning: three paragraphs of real world chemistry following. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There is (quite hard to refine with pre-industrial methods) pure and soft iron, and then there is carbon steel, containing a certain amount of Cementite (Fe3C) crystallites, a metallic carbide significantly increasing hardness, which is the normal product of smelting iron with coal. As long as a piece of iron contains a small portion of carbon and has undergone a smithing (or milling) process, it is considered steel, an alloy. Carbon steel has up to 2.1 % carbon, which means up to 30% cementite crystallites. What may be confusing here is that the carbon doesn't come as an elemental form in the steel, but as an iron compound. Carbides come in three forms - covalently bound (e.g. silicon carbide, a popular abrasive for its hardness), metallic (as with iron and similar transition metals) and ionic (forming acetylene upon contact with water, like sodium carbide). Metallic carbides act like elemental metals or metal-metal compounds like e.g. the two phases of real world brass which have different Zn/Cu ratios. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Ok, science is over. I have no idea whether any of this has any meaningful application in Glorantha. We only know iron as ingots (a trade good, usually from Belskos in Seshnela) or as finished pieces produced by iron dwarves or Third Eye Blue smiths. The means of extracting iron from whichever mother stone (aka ore) is used may involve heat and coal, but not necessarily. It is at least as likely that the Mostali use magical energies in a process similar to electrolysis, separating out anything which is not Separation. We know from the Capstan illustration that they employ energy leads overseen by silver mostali to power magical processes, and there is a high likelihood that making iron is one of those processes. Third Eye Blue smiths might use a similar magic, possibly a variation of Tapping out the impurities. The smithing will usually still require coal for heating - whether charcoal or coke refined from rock coal (see the Caladra and Aurelion cult for data on rock coal). Heated pitch or tar might serve as a fuel with sufficient aeration, too, and let's not totally exclude using hot magma pools for heat quenching of smithed items. I don't expect there to be great amounts of iron dwarf skeletons available for smithing, unless the mostali breed a lot of them in excess and dismember them in rigorous elimination training. There is something scary about facing an army of magical smiths who wear the processed body parts of siblings they killed in training. If there are Mostali enclaves using this Growth method to access their iron, they will have highly damascened smithed bones to work with. But I seriously doubt that this method was employed in Belskan in Seshnela, or the God Learners would never have managed to conquer the place. Also, I don''t see Mostali trading away their highest quality goods. Occasionally lending them out, like Isidilian does, if they are very Openhandist. I do wonder what was the price of the swords, or when the Empire acquired them. Geography suggests they got there pre-Syndics Ban, post Bindle Wars, when Charg still was a known hazard barbarian-infested place like Brolia. Bbut that would mean that they either never saw action against Sheng in those disastrous battles kiling Takenegi (but then why are they a bodyguard unit), or that the legion had about Roman legion strength to begin with. Even if there was recruitment of sufficiently heroic warriors who went and returned a weapon conquered by one of Sheng's Lieutenants or otherwise favored recipient of this kind of plunder. Of course, Sheng lost in the end, and so a certain amount of lost swords might have been reclaimed early in the Fifth Wane, but then came the Night of Horrors, which left a battlefield one cannot plunder. That battle didn't feature the then current mask of the Emperor, though, so the legion may have been legitimately absent from that disaster. It might be possible to list the Lunar units in a table with battles and campaigns and the outcomes for the units, but that would probably be a project half the size of Martin's book. The price for the steel swords would probably have been several times their weight in moon rock, as I see little else the Empire could produce that the Nidan anti-Openhandists would value enough to part with that much iron, and hardly any way even the Crimson Bat could have created enough of a threat to force them to comply.

The use of "Iron Sword 17^2" did mean something completely different in Hero Wars, the first incarnation of Heroquest, however - a weird simulationist concept using "edges" in conflicts that had "action point transfer". Some of the older farts in the community will be prone to interprete this wrongly. Using the modulo/20 notation (adding 20 for each mastery) probably works well enough with people who can add and substract without using their toes, but in real life that ability is not the criterion for pulling a gaming group together.

That approach has the downside that there are no three-ring folders outside of the USA (and possibly Canada). Additional holes would have to be punched for European customers. WIth rather lengthy Mythos and History sections, an electronic "full version" of available cults and cult special spells would be easier to produce and to distribute. Signed pdfs would open up the content for newly purchased content (through updates rather than collecting from the pdfs, I assume).

The Devil did, which is why Magasta's Pool is uncovered. Last thing I heard about him was being crushed by the Block.

Or Umath, who was explicitely armed with Creation to face the Predark, as per King of Sartar: The First Harp (p.49 in the hardback).

Then it is all Gbaji's fault!

They aren't expected to eat certain kinds of meat, as per the Guide p.52: So, your wealthy dronar cast burgher may very well have access to meats you would usually think of as reserved for other castes. (Which begs the question who owns the draught beasts, and what happens when one of those beasts dies from overworking or sickness.) But then, there might be restrictions to how the meats are prepared. Which means that they also do eat vegetables in recognizable form, rather than only in suitably processed form. Elder Secrets had a dwarf recipe which included plant matter in its list, and which was criticized only for its rather high gold content which might have furthered unnecessary individual thought. It doesn't mean that they don't eat the usual processed stuff dished out to orthodox mostali. I take that to mean vegetarianism in the modern real world sense, since the Mostali heresy doesn't make sense for humans whose ability to process mineral food is mostly limited to salt. While I do think that both fasting and ritual consumption of certain foods are part of ritual preparations for magic, I don't quite see the "eat no meat" as a necessary part of that. I can imagine that there are a number of Seshnegi and Carmanian magics which would be greatly helped by the ingestion of lion meat. Isn't Resurrection a rather hands-on magic? That makes the taboo for wizards at least a mite problematic. Subsequent purification makes lots of sense, but that didn't stop surgeons going from the section table to cut open women in complicated births without washing their hands for a few centuries... Still, the Gloranthan mindset would probably have prevented that specific horror. The talar caste includes a vast number of body servants for the highest ranking talars, if I interprete the frieze that was presented as an example how art direction turned into art correctly: https://www.glorantha.com/docs/seshnela-art-direction/ If that is the case, then dealing directly with the dead body of a talar caste member should be restricted to talar caste servants. Dronar caste workers might still be required to do the heavy lifting etc.

To be honest, I wasn't expecting the concept of "private rooms" in Sartarite society, whether urban or rural, except for studies and workshops. The text about the masonry leaves out one of the (at least to me) most crucial facts about the masonry: the kind of stone that was used. Different stones have different durability and ease of workability - as a rule, the easier a type of stone is worked, the less durable are buildings made of it, with chalcite a notable anomaly because while it is pretty hard to work, it isn't very stable chemically (i.e. weathering) and will erode much quicker than silicaceous rock of similar hardness. Sitting at the foot of Mt. Quivin, a son of Veskarthan and Kero Fin, I expect the available rock to be quite durable and inert to weathering. That will mean a demand for quite hard tools. Even with Gloranthan bronze being harder than terrestrial bronze, and possibly brass from bones of Veskarthan's kin especially able to cut through rock of similar descent, a lot of the fine work is probably done with stone tools, grinding and polishing the surfaces into shape. "Polygonal stones" probably means polygonal-based prisms. Right angles still seem to dominate the building outlines ("square" doesn't leave much wiggle room, really). Are vaults or domes or just arches used in separating the stories, or are all interior floors wooden planks or weavework, possibly overlaid by clay, held up by massive beams resting in cavities or on ledges protruding from the masonry for this purpose? One building style I encountered on Cyprus had a stone arch forming the support for the roof ridge of the slanted roof. I could imagine similar constructions upholding the floors, possibly with small tunnel vaults resting on these.) The roof construction in the living areas may well be hidden behind highly decorated textiles in wealthier households, and less well-off households would strive to put up displays of their superior needlework or similar craft, too, or alternatively hung with aromatic herbs left there to dry and to enrich the atmosphere. In the cooking area, roof space is probably occupied by baskets or even pottery hanging down from beams, to keep them out of the reach of most vermin. Mankind was able to construct water-proof vaults in megalithic drystone architecture (e.g. Newgrange), so I don't think such vaults would be out of place in our Bronze Age fantasy. How is the interior of these houses lit? Is there a central light shaft, are there numerous windows, or perhaps systems of mirrors (which could be just white-glazed pottery for lighting purposes), or is artificial lighting (i.e. oil lamps, braziers, candles, or magic) the normal mode? The "thermodynamics" of the Gloranthan Lower Air need a bit mythical explanation if you are with me in thinking that a direct application of the barometrical height formular is unwieldy in a place with 30km high geography. As you fly higher, air density shouldn't decrease as much as it does for terrestrial conditions, although the real measure for storm god presence probably is wind force. We still know that mountain tops are cool enough to maintain ice caps throughout the summers, but how much of that is owed to mere height above the surface, and how much of that can be attributed to vertical air movement around such peaks? I'd still expect updrafts on steep slopes, so we need a reason how and why they shed heat despite approaching the supposedly fiery sky. But then, a lot might simply come from Umath's statement (through his mere existence) that he was not fire but something new. Devotees of Orlanth are immune to wind chill, but not to Himile's cold. Valind is the storm that has allied with Himile, bearing that Cold. But then, Orlanth's half-sister Inora is bearing that cold, too.

While I can attest to the Anatolian highlands in February being cold enough that I caught hypothermia from the falling winds blowing into the opened airplane in Antalia, that is under current climatic conditions. For much of the bronze age, temperatures were significantly higher than today. The Unetice culture of eastern Germany probably enjoyed near mediterranean conditions, and the mediterranian proper may have been even warmer. And before anybody starts thinking about global warming, those may have been localized phenomena, limited to Europe and the fertile crescent. The Ötztal ice mummy is wearing the copper age equivalent of a survival suit for high mountains. Yes, those are leather pants rather than kilts, but this guy would have crossed snow fields high up in the mountains. I watched a documentary on two volunteers from the Bodensee stilthouse experimental archaeology camp crossing the alps on foot, wearing just period clothing. Going barefoot come snow or mud was pretty common. Shoes were known, but would easily chafe, and wouldn't last long on forced marches. As a rule, textile and leather finds are the exception in archaeology. The Ötztal ice mummy and a couple of hapless salt workers in the Hallstatt mine provided us with a good portion of known samples of textiles. Bog mummies probably accound for much of the rest, alongside with the Egyptian mummies preserved for eternity (or rather until they were ground up for producing mumia, a popular remedy and pigment). This means we have few samples of authentic clothing, and only pictorial recreations from other pictorial sources like e.g. the various attire of the sea people from the Ramses frieze commemorating his "victory". The Nordic Bronze and Iron Ages with their bog mummies offer probably a better insight than the collective finds of Mycenean gear.

It would be cannibalism if they ate other man rune mobile plants. An aldryami eating leaves from a shrub is no different from an Orlanthi drinking milk or eating fish.

I think that the main problem with undercover Illuminates is that their low regard for the cultural norms of the people they joined goes both way. They are about as reliable as tricksters (though they aren't Tricksters in the normal sense). You'd probably need more advanced illuminates to handle them somewhat, but then those more advanced illuminates have utterly different concerns, and why should they bother? Special teaching by the Red Emperor or the Great Sister might be the only thing to motivate them. Or not. Think of illuminate infiltrators as a cadre of chemtrails devotees sent to investigate the aircraft industry for cartel moves.

IMO often "Trester" or "Ramazotti" - made from the remaining pulp rather than from the wine that is ready for consumption.

I'm down with a light cold, and to pass the time I have been watching a fourty old documentary on the beginnings of metal use: Mention of the difficulties tracing the source of the Afghan tin for the Bronze Age world due to the soviet conquest made me think of a weird scenario where modern (or near future) archaeologists excavate a mound over an abandoned city in Dark Troll territory, with contractual obligation to leave behind most of their equipment to make up for the exotic food they carried away from that site. Possibly including draft animals, and at least with negotiations about leaving some of the local work force to be left for eating, too. Just a weird idea, but might make a one-off convention scenario when I am more clear-headed.

Personally, I think that the Grazer creation myth is basically true for Harrjeen and maybe a few of his followers, to create the precedence for the rest of the former Pure Horse kin to enter Dragon Pass. I have no information on the presence of significant numbers of centaurs prior to the establishment of Remakerela in Dragon Pass. This indicates that the centaurs of Beast Valley are quite likely descended from Pure Horse "volunteers" who were joined with their mounts to create this magical species, and that this procedure could indeed be undone. (It would have gone even better if there were Minohippoi about, humanoid bodies with stallion heads, to provide the lower part of the bodies for the cut ones, and heads for the horse torsos. You'd end up with leftover arms, though.) Heroes who apotheosize carry their unique heroquesting paths as their myths. All of that happens in the Godtime, adds to it (rarely substracts from it - there will always be an Aroka to slay for drought-plagued Orlanth or Barntar heroes.) This availability already starts with worshipped heroes, like Hofstaring.

I doubt that Ulanin had to deal with just uz, but also with dehori and other dark critters. No idea whether "Proud in the face of Darkness" would be an appropriate name for a passion in RQ. In HQ, this would work just fine.

IO is LM or perhaps rather Buserian with some Lunar cycles flanged on. But in Theyalan societies, if you can read more than Tradetalk tallies, you are a worshipper of Lhankor Mhy - at least a lay member (and that probably even goes for literate Thanatar cultists). If you are Lunarized, you can worship the 7Moms or IO, but the act of reading goes through LM. Pelorian script probably does the same through Buserian. Western script goes back to Tadenit, who is either another name for LM, an avatar of the bearded man, or a very close relative. What this means is that there appear to be no ideographic scripts like the Egyptian hieroglyphs in Genertela west of the Shan Shan, but letter systems like the ones derived from Mesopotamian (or possibly Levantine) cuneiform. Older imagery is more like a picture story in the tradition of the Bayeux Tapestry, possibly less chronological than that. Petroglyphs preceding that probably don't attempt to invoke a syntax or sequence, but who knows? It is quite possible that accountants are only associate worshippers of LM and connected to a mercantile or logistics cult instead, like Issaries, Argan Argar, Asrelia and probably others. Skalds don't have to be literate, but those that are will probably be skalds first and foremost and scribes only on the side - in life as in religious practice. The cult of Lhankor Mhy (in the Holy Country) offers a number of quite variant careers for the sages, including a whole number of knowledge-based crafts. While every apprentice of the sages must spend some effort as copyist, far from every graduate (or quitter) will spend the majority of their time writing.

Nothing a passion wouldn't do. Passions and runes are the "low magic" augment approach in RQG that previously was reserved to Battle Magic spells. Members of the Ulanin subcult could gain and cultivate an appropriate passion. Preferably with a different wording than "hate".

Or you could share the burden of spirit combat around, letting the spirit attack basically everybody for a while. (If that spell had been available in RQ3, you would have waited for the current target to get their POW experience check before attracting the spirit to someone else. Possibly via Mindlink.) I note that the Distraction doesn't require to overcome the target's POW to take effect, so it doesn't generate a POW check by itself. Rather than spirit combat ability, combat availability may also be a concern. A player with a hit location taken out but safely out of melee can still engage the spirit in spirit combat, letting the non-disabled party members concentrate on overcoming the physical foes. Never happened in my games. Wraiths, Shades and Lunes were bad enough, and the occasional ghost was more than enough to send a party back for expert support. But then, the POW gain mechanic never worked as supposed in my RQ3 games.

That was back when they thought that Gods of Glorantha would fit into a single book. Those times are gone...

There's also the "I'm originally from a feuding clan/tribe, so of course I detect as an enemy" excuse. You admit to being originally hostile to the hosts, but in the interest of the cult, you are overcoming those obstacles.