Jeff

RuneQuest forced us to really examine the Runes carefully, and it forced us to correct some lazy mistakes that had creeped in. Argan Argar is Harmony with Darkness -peaceful coexistence with the Shadows. His is not Communication - that is Issaries' Rune (a combination of Change and Harmony). Orlanth is the God of Heroes, or more precisely the Hero God. He has conquered and taken from all the other Elements. He's even connected to the Dragons, as a killer or as an ally. That's why the Storm God gets the Mastery Rune.

Here's something I cut for length from RQG but might have a vehicle for later: Orlanthi Names Many Orlanthi names combine prefixes and suffixes as per below; the prefixes and suffixes usually relate to the names of gods or ancestors. Use them to create your name or pick a finished name from the lists. Orlanthi identify themselves by the name of a well known parent (stated with a "Son of" or "Daughter of"). Names often alliterate (start with the same sound) or share a prefixes or suffix from parent to child (Eringulf son of Brolarulf, Harmast son of Hardrinor, Saronil son of Sartar) or from sibling to sibling (Orgar and Orstandel, Fingmanar and Finganvar). Males Prefixes: Andrin, Andror, Avent, Bar(n), Ber(es/en), Bro, Dar, Der, Des(tor), Din, Dor-, Enjos, Erin, Fin, Gar(in), Hantra, Harad, Har(an), Hed(kor), Hend, Ir, Jar(star), Kor(l), Korol, Kul, Lon(d), O(r), Orl, Orst, Orvan, Rasta, Ros, Sar(o), Sen(ren), (S)tark, V(a/e)n, Varan. Suffixes: ‑alor. ‑(al)des, ‑and, ‑angian, ‑arl, ‑aventus, ‑brast, ‑dath, ‑daral, ‑dovar, ‑drinor, ‑dros, ‑durev, ‑en, ‑estan, ‑fin, ‑gandi, ‑ganvar, ‑gor, ‑gradus, ‑harl, -illo, -ister, -kar, ‑kos, ‑(l/v)anth, ‑lakar, ‑larant, ‑(l)or, ‑makt, ‑manar, -(m)al. ‑(m)arl, ‑mast, ‑niskis, ‑onil, ‑orth, -restos, ‑rik, ‑rolar, ‑serian, ‑staval, ‑tand, ‑tar, -taros, -tos, ‑(g/l)ulf, ‑veste, ‑venos, ‑vil, -yan. It is common for men to take the name of gods or heroes (Barntar, Durev, Elmal, Harmast, Hendrik, Heort, Orlanth, etc), great kings (Hofstaring, Saronil, Tarkalor) or of ancestors (Garan, Korlmar, Ulanin, Straval, etc) as a prefix or suffix. Sample Male Names: Andrin, Argrath, Aslandar, Ashart, Broyan, Dorasor, Farnan, Harmast, Gringle, Jarstakos, Kalf, Maniski, Ortossi, Robasart, Saronil, Sarotar, Tarkalor, Venharl. Females Prefixes: A(r), Dara, Davor, Der, Dor, Dush, Ent, Erin, Ernal(da), Esra, Esrol, Feren, Har, Hend, In, Ivarn, Jareen, Jarnarn, Jen, Kall, Ken, Leika, Lon(d), Mern, Mir, Morgan, Natal, Nerest, Ondur, Onel, Oran, Or(a/i), Samast, Sen(ren), Sora, Seren, Serze, Vasan, Yan, Yerest. Suffixes: ‑a, ‑ala, ‑ale, ‑ali, -ana, -arios, -asa, -ava, ‑(d)essa, ‑(d)estra, ‑(d)inna, (d)ira, ‑(d)rella, ‑(d)urisa, -ela, ‑(er)landa, -est(ing), eth, -eva, -gala, -i, -ias, -illa, -ina, -ioth, -ira, -(is)en, ‑(i/y)r, -karne, -lartha, ‑ran(d)a, ‑renava, ‑sin, -sta, ‑sulva, ‑vale. It is common for women to take the name of goddesses or heroes (Ernalda, Esrola, Ivarne, Kev, Maran, Mirngala, Voria, etc) or of ancestors (Lismelder, Orgorvale, Serias, Vestene, etc) as a prefix or suffix. Sample Female Names: Beneva, Berra, Dorasa, Dushi, Erissa, Erynn, Insterid, Ivarne, Jareen, Kallyr, Leika, Morganeth, Onelisen, Sora, Vasana, Yanioth. Nicknames It is common for Orlanthi to have nicknames too. Some nicknames are poetic, others are prosaic. Some are badges of honor, others of mockery and ridicule. Owners of magical items often get a nickname associated with the item (e.g., Hardrinor Iron Band, Leika Black Spear, Rastalulf Vanak Spear, etc.). Examples: Bald, Barefoot, Belly-Laugh, Clumsy, Dour, Generous, Glum, Greybeard, Handsome, Hairy, Long-nose, Lucky, Many-Kin, Red, Raven-Hair, Restless, Short, Strong, Stout, Sure-handed, Swift, Swimmer, Tall, Troublesome Poet, Unadvised, Ugly, Weak, Wideread.

I disagree as to just about every "Problem Rune Spell". These spells are written as we at Chaosium intend them to work. If you want to house rule them to reflect how you want things to be, go for it. But you are unlikely to see ANY of these spells "corrected".

In RQG, we use the Mastery Rune differently. It is less about rulership, and more what Greg initially used it for - the rune of the Hero. Orlanth is one of the few deities to possess it (as Orlanth is the patron god of Heroes). Argan Argan is god of Darkness coexisting with the other elements. He is runes of Darkness and Harmony. He became the lover and protector of Esrola and TOGETHER they made the Only Old One. The Only Old Old befriended the humans of Kethaela that survived the Great Darkness and offered them protection in exchange for tribute (and not obedience). Trolls were fed, humans were protected (especially from the trolls) - life was easy for everyone. The Only Old One was active throughout the First Age, but when with the Broken Council, he holed up in his Obsidian Palace. When Arkat restored the Kingdom of Night, it was somehow different. The humans of Dragon Pass no longer felt the offer of protection for tribute was an equal exchange. Both the EWF and the Middle Sea Empire proved mightier than the Shadowlands, and after the Closing, even many Kethaelans questioned why tribute should be paid to the Only Old One. Kethaela was poor, surrounded by barbarians, and cut off from the civilised world. And the decline was notable. When Belintar came, he displayed to all the degeneracy and senility of the Only Old One, and overthrew the Shadowlands - and amazingly even gained the assent of the Only Old One's former associates and companions. Belintar restored good contacts with all the gods of the Holy Country - even Argan Argar consented to the rule of the God-King.

Gang - this thread has long since wandered off-topic. If you all want to talk about geese, create a new thread.

It is as you say. The Vinga cultists are renowned for their fearlessness. More so than the men.

Also the Orlanthi are defined by their god - "both the murderer of Yelm who plunged the world into darkness and the leader of the Lightbringers who revived the world, Orlanth is the God of Heroes, an untamed destroyer who nonetheless protects life and aids civilization. He destroys not to end the world but to make way for the new. Orlanth made the world what it is through his deeds and his cult is destined to play a central role in the Hero Wars." The Orlanth cult provides perfectly good encouragement for much of the problematic elements in Orlanthi society. Local farmer, "Hey, these are strange new powers or ideas - what would Orlanth do?" Orlanthi hero, "he'd take them and use them against his foes!" Local farmer, "But what if they are bad?" Orlanthi hero, "Pffft. We'll deal with that later. We have the Red Goddess to overthrow first!" Your clans leaders might say that the EWF was horrible, but at the same time they know that once upon a time the Storm Voices could command dragons and the Wind Lords conquered kingdoms. Maybe before the Dragonrise all that got ignored, but now it is back out in the open. Maybe the old sages say God Learnism was a bad foreign thing, but their texts and lore prove otherwise. And the path that Minaryth Purple walked is now open to other clever and curious sages. And so on. Throw Humakt, Storm Bull, and Maran Gor into that mix, and you can imagine things getting dangerous fast. And if you keep in mind that the Orlanthi have suffered from a generation of occupation and close to a decade of war leading up to the start of RQG, there's going to be a lot more imperfection than the high amount the Orlanthi normally have.

I certainly don't see the Orlanthi as being much like what was described. My Orlanthi are troublesome, ambitious, constantly breaking their own rules, torn between honor and loyalty, and often overly pragmatic when it comes to their own self-interest. They often recognise no authority except that which has the power to back it up (over and over again). They pick fights with Elder Races over resources they want, make plenty of short-term self-interested deals (and break long-standing traditions when they are no longer in their short-term interest). Sartar stands out as someone who was able to overcome these limitations - through trade, money, and the power. His dynasty tempered the natural inclinations of the Orlanthi - first through money, second through getting the tribes to share certain valuable resources they couldn't have by themselves, and then finally through raw military might.

That's my take as well. Honestly much of this discussion makes little sense to me at all. If playing a Yelmalion as described in the Cults Book doesn't interest you, then don't play one. Meanwhile Elmal has taken on some extra-Glorantha totemic role, which may fit into one's personal mythology but not into the Glorantha of ongoing publication. YGWV and all that, but I see absolutely nothing in this thread to make me reconsider the role Greg and I gave Elmal in RQG - that of a local variant of Yelmalio that has been dying out since the 1560s.

GRoY is the Dara Happan aristocracies presentation of the acceptable face of Yelm. It reveals much but it also conceals much.

Regardless, the Runequest Campaign, which covers 1625 to 1655 (plus and minus a few years as well) is in the works. Its origins predate the Pendragon Campaign and informed and inspired that, Boy King, and the Grand Pendragon Campaign. It's been present in the background of all Gloranthan publications since before Runequest itself and bringing it out is a top priority for the next year.

Yes. Deadwood was haunted by zombie Aldryami who tended their dead groves. With ritual, dance, and need. Although some say that the result is less reproduction than awakening what was already there. The spirit of Knowledge inhabits the stacks itself. It defends the library from theft, fire, water, wind, rats, beetles, and other damage.

This is absolutely true, You can do what you want with your Glorantha. When I am writing these forums, I am laying down the take we will take in publications, and also helpfully giving details useful for people who want to use those publications, write for us, etc. If you as an individual GM or player want to go in a different direction, go for it.

In Glorantha things do get proven to the acceptance of most everyone. Khordavu definitely proved to everyone's satisfaction that the Dara Happans know more about the Sun God than their neighbours, and Yelm was quickly acknowledged throughout Peloria and beyond. Harmast definitely proved to everyone's satisfaction that Orlanth led the Seven Lightbringers, having performed the quest twice to restore a Broken World. Now perhaps in the Hero Wars, someone proves to most everyone's satisfaction that Yelmalio is actually responsible for destroying Sedenya in the Lesser Darkness, or maybe that it was Yelmalio who killed the Sky Tyrant (both could be prove very useful in the Hero Wars). Or maybe an Orlanthi might prove that Elmal was a name for Reladivus, who served Orlanth instead of being destroyed by Ram Barbarians (and thus not Yelmalio). But in the Sartar of 1625, the Elmal cult has largely been subsumed into Yelmalio as described in the Making Gods essay. Jeff

But the Lunars are right about many of their claims. Their Goddess did gain acknowledgement from most of the forces of the cosmos at the Battle of Castle Blue (although some claim she cheated). She has proven her power over and over again, which is usually a pretty good authority. She acknowledges that she embraces Chaos - AND that is what keeps her from being fully accepted by Orlanth, Storm Bull, and others. But no one denies that she is the Red Moon Goddess. Same thing with Orlanth. He led the Lightbringers Quest, made peace with Yelm, and helped form the Cosmic Compromise that saved the Cosmos. He may be a rebel, a murderer, and a destroyer, but he can back up those claims. Even Yelm acknowledges it (although he puts the emphasis a bit differently).

Also most Gloranthans are Lumpers, not Splitters. That's not just the God Learners, but the Theyalan missionaries, the Lunars, and many others. A Sun Priest and an Light Priest challenge each other over the identity of the Sun by magical contest of clarification and identification. The Light Priest can show off his light magic, can see in the dark, etc. and prove that his god did not die in the Darkness, but the Sun Priest can get the Light Priest's god to acknowledge that Yelm is the Sun who died with the Darkness and returned with the Dawn. A similar thing happens when a Storm Voice encounters a Storm Khan - the Storm Voice can demand aid from the Storm Khan and the Khan must accept, although he may demand a price in return. That isn't social convention - that's Storm Bull acknowledging Orlanth. And it happened wherever the Orlanthi went. Two Light Priests meet. The first says that their god is the ally and servant of Orlanth and calls upon Orlanth for the gift of Shield. The other says that their god is no servant, but is the son of the Sun and calls upon Yelm for the gift of Shield. Both are right, for at times Lightfore did aid Orlanth and at times Lightfore fought with Orlanth. But the second can likely reveal more secrets than the first, and can reveal what Yelmalio received at the Hill of Gold and fill it the gaps in stories that now make more sense. And they ask Elmal if this is true and he says yes. Some refuse this new insight, because of tradition, ambition, politics, or identity, but most accept this. When they worship Yelmalio, no spirits of retribution come for them, and Elmal does not protest.

Harald is absolute right here. It is evil because it is poisonous (salt-water) and cannot be used for drinking or irrigation.

If Zeus and Jupiter were real and not cultural contructs, they are either the gods of certain phenomena with many names and many aspects in many lands, or they are tribal patrons. Yelmalio is not a mere tribal patron (nor is Orlanth). He is a real deity, with many names (including Elmal, Antirius, Kargzant, etc.). I call him "Yelmalio" in the Cults Book because that what Greg and I normally called him unless were were talking about a local version or variant. You look at GRoY, Entekosiad, etc., and the monomyth is still there. There is a consistent whole to Gloranthan mythology - that's a key part of its appeal. You can see elements of the Weapons Contest in the conflict between Oorsu Sara and Govmeranen. Details differ because the mythic event is being experienced from a different vantage point or with different purposes and priorities. But the framework is still there. Jeff

Harvar didn't have to work very hard, since the Tarshite settlers knew Yelmalio Golden Spear, and not the Hendriki Elmal. But do you have the same degree of concern whether Orlanth Adventurous is the same god as Orlanth Thunderous? Or whether Zeus is Jupiter?

They were originally detailed by Greg as "Hyaloring Triarchy - three pony clans. Enyhli are the Yelmalio clan. Join Colymar c 1410."

Kargzant/Yelmalio does not have much of a cult among the Grazers or other Pure Horse People (such as the Char'un). They are descended from the Hyalorings, and maintained strict taboos that kept them "pure" enough to directly contact Yelm with the Dawn. During the rule of the Sons of the Sun, they served as a priestly tribe. The Grazers did not embrace Yelmalio (whose cult is much more open and accessible than Yelm's) during their time in Prax, and remained "pure" Yelm worshipers. Although they have included worship of the Lightbringers, and have switched Dendara for Ernalda, they are still Yelm worshipers rather than Yelmalion (as explained in Greg's old essay, the Grazers's beliefs were untroubled by the renewed contact with lowland Peloria - in part because they already had their crisis of faith and ended up with the Feathered Horse Queen).

Few Orlanthi have any problem at all with Yelm in the sky. After all, putting him back there was Orlanth's greatest deed.

By putting up a column to Jupiter Dolichenus. And maybe labelling it also in Greek as Zeus Orimasdes.

Wilmskirk claims to have temples to all the gods, although that boast may be a bit of an exaggeration. The Rent-A-Shrine is really nice though.

I've really never understood this attitude. If I was playing a game set in the late Roman Republic, I'd want Caesar to cross the Rubicon, only to be assassinated a few years later. And I'd ideally want the players to be responsible for both.